Meditation Retreats Vs. At-Home Retreat????

[r0ckyreed]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

At home is great as long as you can enforce discipline on yourself.

There is no need to pay thousands of dollars to do retreats with people unless you are too weak to handle it yourself.

@Leo Gura Do you ever do contemplation retreats? My biggest issue with meditation is that when I quiet the mind via focusing on the breath, I find myself dissociating and falling asleep. It’s like if my mind is inactive, I either fall asleep or dissociate. What I have done to help this is keep my eyes open and look at my hands and contemplate my hands and consciousness. For some reason, I find that me looking at my hands and contemplating the mystery of the present moment raises my consciousness even more than quieting my mind via focusing on breath.

It is easier for me to be more present and have higher consciousness via contemplation/self-inquiry. My main meditation technique these days is looking at my hands and the room, returning the mind to the breath and the questions “Who am I, what is consciousness, what is the present moment?” And I just sit with that question and connect with deep not-knowing and the mystery of the now. I find this method better than traditional anapanasati/vipassana.

Thanks.

Edited July 12 by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

Do you ever do contemplation retreats?

I don't find it fruitful. Too intellectual to shift consciousness.

Existential contemplation is ineffective until your state has been raised.

Quote

My biggest issue with meditation is that when I quiet the mind via focusing on the breath, I find myself dissociating and falling asleep.

Sleepiness is a big problem for me. But it tends to go away after a few days of hardcore meditation.

Sleepiness is like a crazy potent defense mechanism that must be broken through. Sometimes you just gotta sleep extra much until you get it out of your system.

Real meditation only starts after you got the sleepiness out of the way through a few napping sits.

Edited July 12 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

When I feel sleepy in meditation I try to add more active components like simple breathing technique, otherwise I do some yoga and come back or do some walking meditation.

It's important to get the right relaxed attention for meditation to flow.

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't find it fruitful. Too intellectual to shift consciousness.

Existential contemplation is ineffective until your state has been raised.

Sleepiness is a big problem for me. But it tends to go away after a few days of hardcore meditation.

Sleepiness is like a crazy potent defense mechanism that must be broken through. Sometimes you just gotta sleep extra much until you get it out of your system.

Real meditation only starts after you got the sleepiness out of the way through a few napping sits.

Is it reasonable to do multiple meditation techniques during a day sit or just stick with one technique for the day? I find that using a combination a breath-awareness, self-inquiry, looking at my hands, and existential contemplation seem to work well for me.

@Leo Gura You don’t think self-inquiry would be more fruitful than mindfulness meditation?

Is your go-to meditation technique still looking at your hands to stay in actuality or do you do the see, hear, feel meditation or The Mind Illuminated?

Edited July 12 by r0ckyreed

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

When I feel sleepy in meditation I try to add more active components like simple breathing technique, otherwise I do some yoga and come back or do some walking meditation.

It's important to get the right relaxed attention for meditation to flow.

Do you do breath-awareness meditation like described in Mind Illuminated or do you do self-inquiry/contemplation?

[Oppositionless]

15 hours ago, ExploringReality said:

After some thinking, during the sitting, I'm sure my girlfriend will have a cognitive hallucination in which she realizes I am fucking another girl ahahah. Just kidding, I'll be good. But women are so full of noise, all that quaking and popping like a duck 🦆 

Why you datin someone you don't respect?

[Oppositionless]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't find it fruitful. Too intellectual to shift consciousness.

Existential contemplation is ineffective until your state has been raised.

 

I feel like one of the most enlightened theoreticians on the planet but meditating all day for 7 days showed me how much truth, peace  and joy I'm missing by being in my head all the time.

I think when I'm contemplating I should really start asking myself "but do I KNOW this is true? Or is it just a really compelling intuitive hunch?"

[Natasha Tori Maru]

After a lot of practice the sleepiness goes. Most of the time now I enter a hypnagogic state rather than sleep.

I call the sleep drifting 'clicking out'. So my method to 'click in' was to hold a huge mineral (paperweight, rock, anything heavy really. I just like this chunky Tibetan quartz I was gifted) in both hands, with a ceramic plate on my lap. As soon as I seriously click-out I drop the weight and the sound forces the click-in.

It takes some getting used to due to a bit of muscle soreness, but it trained me out of slipping into sleep states.

[Leo Gura]

43 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Is it reasonable to do multiple meditation techniques during a day sit or just stick with one technique for the day? I find that using a combination a breath-awareness, self-inquiry, looking at my hands, and existential contemplation seem to work well for me.

Yes, multiple techniques is fine. Vary it up throughout the day.

43 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

You don’t think self-inquiry would be more fruitful than mindfulness meditation?

No, it is not fruitful until your mind is highly mindful and focused from days of mindfulness meditation.

43 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Is your go-to meditation technique still looking at your hands to stay in actuality or do you do the see, hear, feel meditation or The Mind Illuminated?

See/hear/feel with the whole body for long retreats.

Or focusing on a single thing for one hour at a time.

Once the mind is stabilized after a few days of that, then just sitting in silence and focusing on nothing. Some mild self-inquiry for periods.

Alternating these throughout the day. If the mind gets too conceptual or talkative, switch back into rigorous see/hear/feel technique to bring it back on track.

25 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

I feel like one of the most enlightened theoreticians

That is the main danger here.

25 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

but meditating all day for 7 days showed me how much truth, peace  and joy I'm missing by being in my head all the time.

Yes, Yes.

Conceptual understanding of God is close to worthless in a retreat.

11 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

After a lot of practice the sleepiness goes. Most of the time now I enter a hypnagogic state rather than sleep.

I call the sleep drifting 'clicking out'.

That's no better. That's not higher consciousness.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Leo Gura

I'm deliberately attempting to explore this hypnagogic state at this time.

I was just trying to be helpful with a technique. The stone holding thing worked for me even when not trying to enter the hypnagogic state ☹️

[r0ckyreed]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

See/hear/feel with the whole body for long retreats.

Or focusing on a single thing for one hour at a time.

Once the mind is stabilized after a few days of that, then just sitting in silence and focusing on nothing. Some mild self-inquiry for periods.

Alternating these throughout the day. If the mind gets too conceptual or talkative, switch back into rigorous see/hear/feel technique to bring it back on track.

Thanks. I will give it a go. I will vary breath-awareness with self-inquiry. It’s hard for me to devote to a 10 days straight of meditation due to my career. The best opportunity to do psychedelics and deep meditation is on the weekends.

The reason for me combing self-inquiry with breath-awareness is to get the benefits of contemplation and stillness. I find if I focus too much on breath-awareness, my curiosity is stunted. If I focus too much on self-inquiry/contemplation, then my stillness is stunted.

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

I find if I focus too much on breath-awareness, my curiosity is stunted.

Curiosity itself becomes an obstacle. Don't worry about it. Let it go. You gotta get super mindful and focused before self-inquiry does anything. Otherwise you're just spinning your wheels being curious with no answers.

The amount of curiosity you need once you're super-mindful and focused is very little.

Invest 10 days into rigorous mindfulness practice, then be curious for a few hours and the breakthrough will happen easily.

Curiosity in the wrong state does nothing.

Edited July 12 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I'm deliberately attempting to explore this hypnagogic state at this time.

Okay, no worries.

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Curiosity itself becomes an obstacle. Don't worry about it. Let it go. You gotta get super mindful and focused before self-inquiry does anything. Otherwise you're just spinning your wheels being curious with no answers.

The amount of curiosity you need once you're super-mindful and focused is very little.

Invest 10 days into rigorous mindfulness practice, then be curious for a few hours and the breakthrough will happen easily.

Curiosity in the wrong state does nothing.

Thanks. I just now did a 30 minute practice and felt a wave of joy and gratitude move up my spine. The practice I did involved 4 techniques/stages:

1. Grounding (Mindfulness)

2. Self-Inquiry

3. Vision/Goals Reflection 

4. Gratitude (or Satisfaction Meditation)

It sounds like you recommend strict mindfulness practice. I will give that a try for the next 10 days.

Thanks.

Edited July 13 by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

It sounds like you recommend strict mindfulness practice.

Yes.

The goal is to completely get out of your conceptual mind. No concepts at all. Exist without concepts for 10 days straight. That's what leads to breakthroughs. When you entertain concepts you fall back into ego consciousness.

The conceptual mind is what's killing your progress.

Edited July 13 by Leo Gura

[r0ckyreed]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes.

The goal is to completely get out of your conceptual mind. No concepts at all. Exist without concepts for 10 days straight. That's what leads to breakthroughs. When you entertain concepts you fall back into ego consciousness.

The conceptual mind is what's killing your progress.

Thanks. I will make that a goal to meditate 10 days no concepts when I accrue enough PTO at work. Until then, I will aim to do 30 minutes to 1 hour a day and then do an intense weekend retreat and will do psychedelics whenever I can get them again. 

Thanks for all your help and support!

[Verg0]

@Leo Gura

Have you explored what is called 'Naam Simran' or a certain kind of Japa? 

Basically a dwelling on and remembering of God's Name'.

There seem to be an infinite amount of words being used for that wich is essentially Nameless and I've found it hard to pick one that resonates. Especially as many are connected to some kind of tradition or dogma which turns me off. 

I've landed on SatNam ('Truth is the Name') displayed in the Mool Mantar in Sikhism. 

 

If not, how effective do you image that practice to be? 

I'm guessing it gives a flavor of divinity to the practice of concentration until you leave the repition altogether. 

 

I kind of like the idea of just staying with the Name. Eventually connecting it with the breath (something like SoHam has been used that way) - taking it into retreat and even into day to day as a practice. 

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Verg0 said:

Basically a dwelling on and remembering of God's Name'.

Not my thing. To me this is silly.

[Davino]

15 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

Do you do breath-awareness meditation like described in Mind Illuminated or do you do self-inquiry/contemplation?

I do pranayama and the Wim Hof method. I've checked the source you've given and seems quite a detailed system of breath awareness, I haven't gone that deep into the pranic levels of awareness alone, but I do it as part of my vipassana practice.

I do self-inquiry sometimes and contemplation is part of my philosophy work.

I do all modern practices honestly. At least I've done them till the point of decent grasp and then it's like a tool that I may use when needed. Although I stick regularly to kundalini yoga by Yogigems, meditation by Michael Thaft and classic vipassana.

[Davino]

12 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

1. Grounding (Mindfulness)

2. Self-Inquiry

3. Vision/Goals Reflection 

4. Gratitude (or Satisfaction Meditation)

I would add something of movement. Like yoga, sport or breathing. It's gonna be hard to drop into surrender and relaxed awareness without deep connection with the body and working on the tension side.

I feel your practice is good on the mental and more elevated side but you need to work into the embodied, energetic, mind-body connection. 

Practices that go from body to mind and consciousness is Yoga. The Vipassana uses mind to feel body and penetrate into the pure consciousness of phenomena (In away self inquiry is vipassana of the Self). That's also a way, but my point is to get the full spectrum.

I see this issue again and again when I'm working with people in the path. They get good with that one technique or collection of techniques for one dimension of consciousness and they get stuck there. Why? Because when you work only in one dimension, at a certain point, each cm you progress is gonna get harder and harder, like a spring. The intelligent way is to go through a round of practice in the other dimensions of consciousness, once done, people are surprised, now the breakthrough in my cherished technique is so direct.

I would have payed hundreds of euros for this advice years ago. It has been the key to accelerating my spiritual path. I know play the piano of my consciousness with all its notes to create the mystical melody I will.