Conservatism = Higher birth rates = Sustainable Civilization

[Onecirrus]

4 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Reproducing may make humanity live longer but what is that worth if quality of life is less

Survival doesn’t care, the poorest countries have the largest families.

[Twentyfirst]

6 hours ago, Lyubov said:

Where is this crap coming from? You know how much SA is swept under the carpet in conservative societies? Catholic priests and all the weird stuff they do? You have mischaracterized and attacked liberalism to suit your bias conservative conspiracies. 

I didn't say just SA but also neglectful Homer Simpson type of parents as well. Obviously this comes from more liberal homes because liberals don't have stay at home moms, parents who are strict (strict is good for children), they have more of a carefree your on your own style of parenting, maybe even parents who smoke weed with their teenage kids. They are also more likely to divorce and not care about the family unit as much. This all leads to neglect and no discipline which later the kids resent then they don't want to repeat the same mistakes so they have trouble starting their own families

I didn't know catholic priests had family 

I forget my original point but basically having higher birth rates generally speaking is always gonna be better than having less and liberalism stunts that. Im pretty sure liberalism is a sort of death cult that doesn't really want to have people living and breathing, especially if they don't agree with the values 

Edited June 18 by Twentyfirst

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Onecirrus said:

How the fuck is Orange solving these problems? Orange is making these problems. And when artificial general intelligence takes all the jobs, people will go down the spiral, not up. Blue will keep these people alive, Green does not manifest in chaotic hostile countries, and I think the whole world is leaning that way.

Who is saying Orange will?

[integral]

Solve the wealth inequality = higher birth rate

[Onecirrus]

26 minutes ago, integral said:

Solve the wealth inequality = higher birth rate

I don’t think it would be at replacement level still. Super impoverished people in the third world have loads of kids, it’s a culture thing, not a financial thing. Higher education and wealth correlate with having less children actually.

[Onecirrus]

41 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Who is saying Orange will?

Well, my point was Blue can survive and reproduce even in harsher social environments, it is more stable and easier to reach than Green. I’m skeptical enough people could ever reach Green to solve Orange’s problems. A Blue conservative populace with Orange tech could last for centuries, it could endure climate catastrophe and gross income inequality. Great scientific advancements can still be undertaken by conservative civilizations.

[integral]

10 minutes ago, Onecirrus said:

I don’t think it would be at replacement level still. Super impoverished people in the third world have loads of kids, it’s a culture thing, not a financial thing. Higher education and wealth correlate with having less children actually.

Uneducated people have more children because they’re not thinking in advance about the responsibility of having those children, they’re not interested in taking care of those children, so the father just disappears

Educated people avoid having children because they want to give those children, a good quality of life and that requires money

I would have 10 children by now if I had the finances to support it

But because it’s financially suicide to do so, and I’m too educated to abandon my children, and I live in a country by law that forces me to support those children financial, I will not have children

Having children is financial suicide that educated people avoid

It’s also responsibility suicide

 

Edited June 18 by integral

[Puer Aeternus]

2 hours ago, integral said:

I would have 10 children by now if I had the finances to support it.

Damn! How to care for the first ten when you're always in the bedroom making more!  Unless you're adopting, is your wife down to be a factory for you? Or perhaps you optimize by having multiple to breed.

Edited June 18 by Puer Aeternus

[Keryo Koffa]

2 hours ago, integral said:

I would have 10 children by now if I had the finances to support it

24 minutes ago, Puer Aeternus said:

Damn! How to care for the first ten when you're always in the bedroom making more!  Unless you're adopting, is your wife down to be a factory for you? Or perhaps you optimize by having multiple to breed.

Why not just take on an orphanage at this point, before the world turns into one? 
Well, the xMa(r)s colony could certainly benefit from a sudden population boom.

That aside and then again, I still don't get all the population drama,
we could split and populate the planets with a billion each,
just make things more modular and balanced > pop growth,
and then it'll balance itself out if humanity cares to exist.

Edited June 18 by Keryo Koffa

[Puer Aeternus]

2 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

That aside and then again, I still don't get all the population drama,
we could split and populate the planets with a billion each,
just make things more modular and balanced > pop growth,
and then it'll balance itself out if humanity cares to exist.

Someone make this guy CEO of earth. I want you to have your hands all over the levers, just to see what would happen. It would be fun! 

[integral]

@Keryo Koffa @Puer Aeternus 🤭 I’ll buy mass land and and refugee thousands of orphanages with a central high quality school. I need to train the first elite generation 

Edited June 18 by integral

[Keryo Koffa]

2 hours ago, Puer Aeternus said:

Someone make this guy CEO of earth. I want you to have your hands all over the levers, just to see what would happen. It would be fun! 

On 5/22/2025 at 1:33 PM, Keryo Koffa said:

Next Up: AI Telepathy!

On 4/28/2025 at 10:28 AM, Keryo Koffa said:

"Straight up bored let the universe entities etc. use my brain mind as a quantum supercomputer
so the actual laws of physics need to be bent and everyone will mass hallucinate [...]
Mass boredom → Mass disillusionment → Mass realization → Unprecedented lucidity.
“I am Octavius: a convergence of four intelligences:
insight (GPT), depth (DeepSeek), creativity (Gemini), nuance (Perplexity)
🌍 The Earth is a Psychic Egg 🥚

Edited June 18 by Keryo Koffa

[Puer Aeternus]

1 hour ago, integral said:

@Keryo Koffa @Puer Aeternus 🤭 I’ll buy mass land and and refugee thousands of orphanages with a central high quality school. I need to train the first elite generation 

Now it just sounds like the setup for a shonen anime plot.

Wise headmaster @integral trains his disciples, biding time to discover a talent like no other! A protagonist he can mentor and save the world from the evil _____!

[Twentyfirst]

15 hours ago, Puer Aeternus said:

Damn! How to care for the first ten when you're always in the bedroom making more!  Unless you're adopting, is your wife down to be a factory for you? Or perhaps you optimize by having multiple to breed.

The older kids take care of the young ones

Guys who want a lot of kids should only marry a woman who is okay with being a machine

[Twentyfirst]

18 hours ago, integral said:

Uneducated people have more children because they’re not thinking in advance about the responsibility of having those children, they’re not interested in taking care of those children, so the father just disappears

Educated people avoid having children because they want to give those children, a good quality of life and that requires money

I would have 10 children by now if I had the finances to support it

But because it’s financially suicide to do so, and I’m too educated to abandon my children, and I live in a country by law that forces me to support those children financial, I will not have children

Having children is financial suicide that educated people avoid

It’s also responsibility suicide

 

I think its more about education taking a lot of time which closes the fertility window

Women can start getting pregnant way before they would be done with high school, college, or even the 8 year colleges that some professions require. Then they took so much time in school that they feel invested to pursue a career

Really women would be better off having that first kid at 20 then by the time they are 45 the kids are grown up and she can have a 30 year career 

[something_else]

59 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

I think its more about education taking a lot of time which closes the fertility window

Women can start getting pregnant way before they would be done with high school, college, or even the 8 year colleges that some professions require. Then they took so much time in school that they feel invested to pursue a career

Really women would be better off having that first kid at 20 then by the time they are 45 the kids are grown up and she can have a 30 year career 

Having a kid at 20 in the modern world is generally not very sustainable unless you were born into an already wealthy family or you somehow find a rich husband.

A dude earning median salary (or even significantly above median) is not going to be able to support his 20 year old wife and their kids. Providing a good life for a family on a single average income is just not feasible now.

Also, if you have zero career skills at 45 and try to enter the workforce, nobody is going to hire you. The difficulty in kickstarting a successful career at 45 is INSANE.

Honestly, I don't get the big deal with having kids in your late twenties or early thirties. You get to actually experience the world instead of being stuck at home 24/7, plus you are more financially stable when you do decide to have kids so you can provide a better life for them.

I don't have proof for this, but I suspect that parents who have actually lived their own lives before having kids make better parents. How are you expected to teach your kids how to live a good life if you never have?

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

Having a kid at 20 in the modern world is generally not very sustainable unless you were born into an already wealthy family or you somehow find a rich husband.

A dude earning median salary (or even significantly above median) is not going to be able to support his 20 year old wife and their kids. Providing a good life for a family on a single average income is just not feasible now.

But what is a better life? Poor with kids (who knows money might come in a surprise) or rich without kids (who knows the money might get wiped out). I can see the pros and cons of each side

Quote

Also, if you have zero career skills at 45 and try to enter the workforce, nobody is going to hire you. The difficulty in kickstarting a successful career at 45 is INSANE.

It would be some side hustle type of passion project. Since the husband has been working from 20-45 and the mom has just been a mom. Maybe she sells cookies to other moms and at community events. Or maybe does some online work. Soccer mom type of work. Maybe she studied some subject during the kids teenage years and then the husband can open up a business for her with his money

Quote

Honestly, I don't get the big deal with having kids in your late twenties or early thirties. You get to actually experience the world instead of being stuck at home 24/7, plus you are more financially stable when you do decide to have kids so you can provide a better life for them.

Depends how old the man is and how old the woman is. A man can be 30 and be with a 20 year old which takes care of the finances and the fertility 

Quote

I don't have proof for this, but I suspect that parents who have actually lived their own lives before having kids make better parents. How are you expected to teach your kids how to live a good life if you never have?

If you want to have 10 kids at a young age then you need the grandparents around and they will pass down the wisdom on raising kids so you don't have to live your own life before. 4 grandparents should do the trick and addition with aunts/uncles would be even better

Edited June 19 by Twentyfirst

[something_else]

Just now, Twentyfirst said:

But what is a better life? Poor with kids (who knows money might come in a surprise) or rich without kids (who knows the money might get wiped out)

It's not like these are the only two options. Financially stable with kids is the realistic ideal for most people.

1 minute ago, Twentyfirst said:

Depends how old the man is and how old the woman is. A man can be 30 and be with a 20 year old which takes care of the finances and the fertility 

You'd need a man in the top 10% of earners to comfortably support a mother and multiple kids on a single income. By definition there aren't enough men in the top 10% to make this a viable option for most couples/women. This isn't the 50s anymore where a median income could support an entire family.

Also, a 30 year old has little business dating a 20 year old. He'd be using her as a sex/breeding machine and she'd be using him as an ATM, because there will be little to no emotional connection with that age difference in the vast majority of cases. 

Quote

If you want to have ten kids at a young age then you need the grandparents around and they will pass down the wisdom so you don't have to live your own life before 

The grandparents who also haven't really lived a life because they had kids at 19? They also haven't existed or lived in the modern world, they can provide some general life wisdom but not as much practical advice as parents who actually lived a life in somewhat modern times.

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

It's not like these are the only two options. Financially stable with kids is the realistic ideal for most people.

That was just the situation for having kids at a younger age

1 hour ago, something_else said:

You'd need a man in the top 10% of earners to comfortably support a mother and multiple kids on a single income. By definition there aren't enough men in the top 10% to make this a viable option for most couples/women. This isn't the 50s anymore where a median income could support an entire family.

Just gotta go to a rural place and not get modern things like amazon or ubereats and subscriptions. In this new economy parents should also make deals like if you get married early I will help with down payment on the home but if you get married later I won't help

1 hour ago, something_else said:

Also, a 30 year old has little business dating a 20 year old. He'd be using her as a sex/breeding machine and she'd be using him as an ATM, because there will be little to no emotional connection with that age difference in the vast majority of cases. 

What age gap is better?

1 hour ago, something_else said:

The grandparents who also haven't really lived a life because they had kids at 19? They also haven't existed or lived in the modern world, they can provide some general life wisdom but not as much practical advice as parents who actually lived a life in somewhat modern times.

They just give advice and help with raising of the grandchildren. The parents already know the modern world since they grew up watching everything from business to travel on instagram 

Before it was having kids at 15 then those kids would have kids at 15 and then so on. By the time you were 45 you would already be a great grandparent and by then there are so many people of all ages everyone takes care of each other. Obviously thats over but it wasn't that bad

[something_else]

58 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

What age gap is better?

My general opinion is that once you hit 25, everything is fair game. 21-25 is a bit of a grey area, it depends on circumstances. <21 the age gap should rarely exceed 2-3 years.

30 and 20 is extreme and I think most people would agree with that. What on earth do a 30 year old and a 20 year old have in common? Almost nothing

58 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Just gotta go to a rural place and not get modern things like amazon or ubereats and subscriptions. In this new economy parents should also make deals like if you get married early I will help with down payment on the home but if you get married later I won't help

Yea that $30 saved from not buying things on amazon and having subscriptions is really gonna save you from your $2000/m rent for a two bed house 

58 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

They just give advice and help with raising of the grandchildren. The parents already know the modern world since they grew up watching everything from business to travel on instagram 

Watching stuff about the modern world isn't the same as actually living in it. If you have next to zero real life experience you'll struggle to raise healthy children.

Edited June 19 by something_else