Afghanistan.

[Twentyfirst]

3 hours ago, Nemra said:

And?

That's like saying someone is being nice to another person which means that he/she is a good person.

Women have more rights than men in Islam

3 hours ago, Nemra said:

In their imagination? Lol.

You don't understand the beauty of the feminine if you think it has anything to do with their bodies 

3 hours ago, Nemra said:

Covering women up won't stop your desire for them. It's just a way to ignore your desire, which is quite stupid.

You still desire them. But there are dedicated channels to have that desire fulfilled 

You don't have a right to stare at a woman for your pleasure. She doesn't consent to that

3 hours ago, Nemra said:

Muslims don't objectify women. Lol.

You are blind to your brothers. You would not admit the stupid things that Muslims do.

Go a muslim country. Smack a girls ass and treat her like an object. See how far you get 

[Rafael Thundercat]

22 hours ago, Majed said:

People will still defend Islam after this ? 

So much sun and this woman cant enjoy vitamin D for free. Sad

[Nemra]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

Women have more rights than men in Islam

You have to be kidding me. 😂

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

You don't understand the beauty of the feminine if you think it has anything to do with their bodies 

Don't act like you get attracted to women just because they can give you children.

So you would marry a woman that you find physically unattractive?

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

You still desire them. But there are dedicated channels to have that desire fulfilled 

You don't have a right to stare at a woman for your pleasure. She doesn't consent to that

By your logic, you don't have a right to say what they should wear.

Also, I didn't say you should stare at women like a crazy person.

It's childish to fully cover up every day because you are afraid of being attracted or by some religious reasons.

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

Go a muslim country. Smack a girls ass and treat her like an object. See how far you get 

You are trying so hard to defend Islam by conflating what I said.

To treat women as solely child-producing machines that should be obedient to their husbands is treating them like objects.

I'm not really defending women here. Women are also brainwashed to adhere to the rules.

Edited June 5 by Nemra

[zazen]

21 minutes ago, Nemra said:

So you would marry a woman that you find physically unattractive?

Who’s says they’re unattractive? Perhaps that attractiveness is made discreet as to not attract all kinds of hanky panky. Perhaps, theres some real baddies in the Middle East that be driving men mad enough to fight over them 😂

 

[Nemra]

22 minutes ago, zazen said:

Who’s says they’re unattractive? Perhaps that attractiveness is made discreet as to not attract all kinds of hanky panky. Perhaps, theres some real baddies in the Middle East that be driving men mad enough to fight over them 😂

Well, that is because families are the ultimate deciders or have huge influence over whom their children, especially their daughters, should marry.

Uncovering oneself threatens that.

Edited June 5 by Nemra

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

You have to be kidding me. 😂

Look it up man, I can't spoon feed you reality 

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

Don't act like you get attracted to women just because they can give you children.

If you want to see a woman's body you qualify for that privilege. Period. You can hate it all you want but you won't change it

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

So you would marry a woman that you find physically unattractive?

Attraction isn't the base of marriage. It's arranged marriages dude. Women of all shapes and sizes get married and taken care and have the opportunity to fulfill having a family and children. Not just the superficial beautiful ones

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

By your logic, you don't have a right to say what they should wear.

There is a mixture of religion, culture, laws, and family values. And it's a choice of what she wants

I can marry a woman who is compatible with what I want without having to change her

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

Also, I didn't say you should stare at women like a crazy person.

It's childish to fully cover up every day because you are afraid of being attracted or by some religious reasons.

You are trying so hard to defend Islam by conflating what I said.

It's about modesty. It's good to be modest. You can't understand it because you don't have the discipline required to do it yourself

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

To treat women as solely child-producing machines that should be obedient to their husbands is treating them like objects.

Okay. Go to a muslim country with a wad of cash, knock on a father/brothers door, tell him you want to marry his daughter so she can solely make children for you and be obedient to you. Do it

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

I'm not really defending women here. Women are also brainwashed to adhere to the rules.

In this day and age all women are exposed to everything extreme from complete modesty to only fans. No matter where in the world as long as they have a phone they see all the range of options. They can make their own conclusions 

[Nemra]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

Look it up man, I can't spoon feed you reality 

Spoon feed me with lies?

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

If you want to see a woman's body you qualify for that privilege. Period. You can hate it all you want but you won't change it

Do you really think that I was saying women should be walking naked in the streets? Lol.

I'm saying that her parents determining which men qualify to be with her and see her naked is DUMB. That is what leads to frustrations in relationships. You are ignoring sexuality.

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

There is a mixture of religion, culture, laws, and family values. And it's a choice of what she wants

Yeah, she's also not afraid to challenge her parents.

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

It's about modesty. It's good to be modest. You can't understand it because you don't have the discipline required to do it yourself.

They are so modest that they mostly cover up themselves.

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

Okay. Go to a muslim country with a wad of cash, knock on a father/brothers door, tell him you want to marry his daughter so she can solely make children for you and be obedient to you. Do it

The father most likely will kick me out because he won't let her daughter equate to some money, but also because he cannot let her daughter ultimately choose what she finds attractive and the parents will choose someone who comes from a stable Islamic family, regardless of whether the man fits with the women.

Basically, it is an auction between families.

You think that I'm saying that you can buy love. I'm not.

Edited June 5 by Nemra

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

Do you really think that I was saying women should be walking naked in the streets? Lol.

You are not the ultimate judge of exactly how much skin is to be shown

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

I'm saying that her parents determining which men qualify to be with her and see her naked is DUMB. That is what leads to frustrations in relationships. You are ignoring sexuality.

It's a group effort. Everyone is included in the decision 

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

Yeah, she's also not afraid to challenge her parents.

Why would she be afraid of challenging her own parents? There is no predator prey situation 

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

They are so modest that they mostly cover up themselves.

Everyone covers up, men too

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

The father most likely will kick me out because he won't let her daughter equate to some money, but also because he cannot let her daughter ultimately choose what she finds attractive and the parents will choose someone who comes from a stable Islamic family, regardless of whether the man fits with the women.

Basically, it is an auction between families.

You think that I'm saying that you can buy love. I'm not.

No I am more highlighting the obedient baby machine. You think another muslim man of good background can waltz in with that attitude? Even if the daughter likes him the family would not appreciate that kind of attitude at all. It wouldn't work because it's extremely disrespectful

Imagine raising your daughter your entire life and teaching her that she is a human to be respected and then the future husband of her entire life will treat her like cattle to be used

Yes the primarily role is for her to be a wife and mother but there still has to be a lot of other things going on and acknowledging beyond that

[Nemra]

39 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

You are not the ultimate judge of exactly how much skin is to be shown

I'm not, but it is quite stupid.

39 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

It's a group effort. Everyone is included in the decision 

😂

39 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Why would she be afraid of challenging her own parents? There is no predator prey situation 

If you have ever been obedient to your parents, then you might see that as normal. Avoiding the thought of diverting from their plans is the fear.

39 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Everyone covers up, men too

First of all, men aren't strictly covering themselves. Is galabeya a full cover that men are afraid to wear?

However, women somehow should be strictly wearing some type of clothes and covering themselves. Women are policed on what they should wear.

Men being attracted to women, why would they insist women to mostly cover up themselves? Think about it.

39 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

No I am more highlighting the obedient baby machine. You think another muslim man of good background can waltz in with that attitude? Even if the daughter likes him the family would not appreciate that kind of attitude at all. It wouldn't work because it's extremely disrespectful

Imagine raising your daughter your entire life and teaching her that she is a human to be respected and then the future husband of her entire life will treat her like cattle to be used

Yes the primarily role is for her to be a wife and mother but there still has to be a lot of other things going on and acknowledging beyond that

And I'm saying that families making decisions is dumbing women's minds. She is treated like a child who doesn't know what she likes and wants, and ironically it becomes reality.

Basically, little room for growth. Little room choosing who you find attractive.

I mean, I don't have a problem if they feel better that way; however, it brings up a lot of problems later in life.

Edited June 5 by Nemra

[LordFall]

@Twentyfirst Haha if your faith is so true why do you have to impose it on others? Just believe in it and be happy. What exactly do you think is wrong about this BBC piece? 

[Twentyfirst]

31 minutes ago, LordFall said:

@Twentyfirst Haha if your faith is so true why do you have to impose it on others? Just believe in it and be happy. What exactly do you think is wrong about this BBC piece? 

I said at the beginning. It's propaganda 

It's easy to rile up an entire nation of men to go invade another nation if they think they treat the women like animals. Men have a natural hero instinct that can easily be activated. This is the very kind of stuff that starts wars or at least gets grouped into contributing factors. It has happened before

What does the BBC know about fair gender treatment? I am sure it's run by rapists and pedos 

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

I'm not, but it is quite stupid.

😂

No, being modest is beautiful and respectful towards your families legacy 

Quote

If you have ever been obedient to your parents, then you might see that as normal. Avoiding the thought of diverting from their plans is the fear.

In Christian countries the kids have to follow the parents plans. If you want to do online education they lose shit and demand you to go to college. Many things

Quote

First of all, men aren't strictly covering themselves. Is galabeya a full cover that men are afraid to wear?

The women with full burka have men with full covering. The women with just headscarf have men with medium covering. The women with no head scarf have men with minimal covering. But everyone is covered all the time

Quote

However, women somehow should be strictly wearing some type of clothes and covering themselves. Women are policed on what they should wear.

Everyone is policed on everything. Welcome to life. There is no predator prey situation where the women are somehow hunted down by the men. Every man has a grandmother, aunt, mother, sister, wife, daughter. Why would he mistreat them?

Quote

Men being attracted to women, why would they insist women to mostly cover up themselves? Think about it.

They tell men to lower their gaze which is the equivalent of telling women to cover themselves. Islam knows the true nature and gives guidance to men and women differently. None of this will make sense if you think that gender is just a social construct and men and women are equal

Quote

And I'm saying that families making decisions is dumbing women's minds. She is treated like a child who doesn't know what she likes and wants, and ironically it becomes reality.

Have you ever spoken to a muslim women? Professional beyond what you are used to I am sure. A level of decorum that you are not used to. Not a child like state at all. Strong women who are aware of their surroundings 

Quote

Basically, little room for growth. Little room choosing who you find attractive.

Attraction isn't the highest value. If you live in a sexualized society that drapes women like pieces of meat then yeah all that will be on your mind is attraction attraction attraction. In a sexualized society Men become like a dog salivating with his tongue out. And women spend all their time insecure about their looks. And the least attractive men and least attractive women get cast away. Men judge women more on their appearance than their mind and women all chase the same top percent guy. Attraction fades away and is more blind infatuation than anything. The way it works in islam is attraction comes later, which it does

Quote

I mean, I don't have a problem if they feel better that way; however, it brings up a lot of problems later in life.

No it doesn't. They put their daughters in it and those daughters put their daughters in and so on. If it was a problem they would stop

Edited June 5 by Twentyfirst

[Twentyfirst]

https://x.com/DillyHussain88/status/1930574566830592003

[LordFall]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

I said at the beginning. It's propaganda 

It's easy to rile up an entire nation of men to go invade another nation if they think they treat the women like animals. Men have a natural hero instinct that can easily be activated. This is the very kind of stuff that starts wars or at least gets grouped into contributing factors. It has happened before

What does the BBC know about fair gender treatment? I am sure it's run by rapists and pedos 

Which part do you think is propaganda? I think you're wrong but I'm genuinely open to being wrong.

They covered how the taliban

- Force the women to completely cover themselves up in public

- Don't allow them to talk in public

- Shut down and imprisoned protestors

- Don't let women attend any type of education

Which point do you think was made up? 

[Twentyfirst]

3 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Which part do you think is propaganda? I think you're wrong but I'm genuinely open to being wrong.

They covered how the taliban

- Force the women to completely cover themselves up in public

- Don't allow them to talk in public

- Shut down and imprisoned protestors

- Don't let women attend any type of education

Which point do you think was made up? 

They say this about the entire Islam world for like 50 years. It's bs. Same talking points every time

I don't know I have never been to Afghanistan but I imagine it's just some corner of the country and doesn't represent the entire nation and they are putting a magnifying glass on it

I highly doubt they are not allowed to speak in public. That doesn't even make sense. It's a cartoon representation of Islam demonization 

Protesting isn't allowed in the Muslim world

I think the education thing is because the Taliban got power and wanted to control the flow of information but if still true today then the women probably just have education at home and focus on being a homemaker

I don't know exactly what is made up or not but I know that the truth is being stretched and lies are being added. I also know that the people criticizing have a bad history of false accusations. As well as their own society problems with gender wars/feminism/red pill so who cares what they think as they are a bad example of what to emulate 

 

[LordFall]

@Twentyfirst Thanks for elaborating I see your point now. I agree that the west tends to demonize Islam and straw man it which makes honest conversation difficult though. I do think that the Taliban is a form of extreme Islamic government that believes in Sharia law and makes it harder to live in for women than countries like Saudi Arabia, Oman, Jordan and UAE(according to my quick AI search lol.)

I assume that you're a muslim yourself and I respect that so is my family from my dads side. I will say that I reject all religions and believe in personal freedom although I do see your earlier point that if you do let people do whatever they want in all circumstances then usually all hell breaks loose as human beings are flawed and greedy creatures.

I don't really see a solution apart from seeking truth and being honest and open to learning and ultimately killing the ego as our work here is doing. 

[Twentyfirst]

14 minutes ago, LordFall said:

@Twentyfirst Thanks for elaborating I see your point now. I agree that the west tends to demonize Islam and straw man it which makes honest conversation difficult though. I do think that the Taliban is a form of extreme Islamic government that believes in Sharia law and makes it harder to live in for women than countries like Saudi Arabia, Oman, Jordan and UAE(according to my quick AI search lol.)

Islamic governments in Middle East/Arab countries believe in Sharia. The people too. It's not forced and just ingrained into the culture and way of life. Sharia can be demonized but what problems has it really inflicted upon the world? Has democracy inflicted problems on the world?

The issue for me with Afghanistan would be that it has been at war for so long it was impossible to govern. But yeah I think the countries you listed are better for both men and women than men and women in Afghan. Also it's two different regions. Afghan isn't in the Middle East

14 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I assume that you're a muslim yourself and I respect that so is my family from my dads side. I will say that I reject all religions and believe in personal freedom although I do see your earlier point that if you do let people do whatever they want in all circumstances then usually all hell breaks loose as human beings are flawed and greedy creatures.

I am muslim but in a more awakening version. All religions lead to enlightenment but institutional religions can be corrupt and block that road. But most humans need some deity to worship 

14 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I don't really see a solution apart from seeking truth and being honest and open to learning and ultimately killing the ego as our work here is doing. 

Travel is great for this sort of thing. I will go to Afghan myself in the next few years. I go everywhere without judgments or expectations to see things for myself. Everywhere has pros and cons

[Nemra]

10 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

No, being modest is beautiful and respectful towards your families legacy 

Yep, that's why it's stupid. To always have a strict way of wearing clothes so that you can respect your family.

10 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

In Christian countries the kids have to follow the parents plans. If you want to do online education they lose shit and demand you to go to college. Many things

Much Christian stuff is also stupid.

10 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

The women with full burka have men with full covering. The women with just headscarf have men with medium covering. The women with no head scarf have men with minimal covering. But everyone is covered all the time

Well, that is nonsense.

10 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

Everyone is policed on everything. Welcome to life. There is no predator prey situation where the women are somehow hunted down by the men. Every man has a grandmother, aunt, mother, sister, wife, daughter. Why would he mistreat them?

Sure, everyone is policed.

I didn't say that women are being hunted at all times. I just pointed out the stupid thing that Muslims care about, which then influences how they make decisions.

10 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

They tell men to lower their gaze which is the equivalent of telling women to cover themselves. Islam knows the true nature and gives guidance to men and women differently. None of this will make sense if you think that gender is just a social construct and men and women are equal

Muslims know so much that they have difficulty giving women rights and ignore sexuality and give the parents the full permission to dictate how their children should live?

Maybe Muslims understand sexuality so much that they consider homosexuality as a sin.

10 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

Attraction isn't the highest value. If you live in a sexualized society that drapes women like pieces of meat then yeah all that will be on your mind is attraction attraction attraction. In a sexualized society Men become like a dog salivating with his tongue out. And women spend all their time insecure about their looks. And the least attractive men and least attractive women get cast away. Men judge women more on their appearance than their mind and women all chase the same top percent guy. Attraction fades away and is more blind infatuation than anything. The way it works in islam is attraction comes later, which it does

Are you so frustrated that a woman that you are attracted to will say no to you? You want to have it easy. You don't want it to be authentic attraction.

That's not good.

And I didn't say attraction is the highest value there is. Religions like to use that kind of talking to instill fear in people.

10 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

No it doesn't. They put their daughters in it and those daughters put their daughters in and so on. If it was a problem they would stop

Yeah, they have so many rights that they are happy to speak, but they just don't want to.

I mean, they can believe that's the right way, but that means that they are brainwashed.

Edited June 6 by Nemra

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

Yep, that's why it's stupid. To always have a strict way of wearing clothes so that you can respect your family.

Much Christian stuff is also stupid.

Well, that is nonsense.

Sure, everyone is policed.

I didn't say that women are being hunted at all times. I just pointed out the stupid thing that Muslims care about, which then influences how they make decisions.

Muslims know so much that they have difficulty giving women rights and ignore sexuality and give the parents the full permission to dictate how their children should live?

Maybe Muslims understand sexuality so much that they consider homosexuality as a sin.

Are you so frustrated that a woman that you are attracted to will say no to you? You want to have it easy. You don't want it to be authentic attraction.

That's not good.

And I didn't say attraction is the highest value there is. Religions like to use that kind of talking to instill fear in people.

Yeah, they have so many rights that they are happy to speak, but they just don't want to.

I mean, they can believe that's the right way, but that means that they are brainwashed.

Like I said. If women are so brainwashed and have so little rights. Go to a muslim country and have your way with them. Then see how harsh the punishment is for you

[Nemra]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

Like I said. If women are so brainwashed and have so little rights. Go to a muslim country and have your way with them. Then see how harsh the punishment is for you

Of course they have some rights.

However, just because they have fewer rights than men doesn't mean that men can't face harsh punishment.

Are you seriously comparing the consequences men face for abusing women with the rights that women lack?