The Utter Elusiveness of God - Conquerable?

[Sincerity]

I took LSD last weekend for the first time in 1,5 years. A standard 300ug with the intention to awaken as deeply as possible.

I focused hard, though without pressure, sitting blindfolded, striving to be as open as possible. My entire identity was erased. I was completely self-defining, forgot literally everything including my name or what is happening, didn't know what anything is at all. I was conscious of God, of it being Me, but the thing is... for the life of me, I COULD NOT PUT A FINGER ON IT.

The same thing happened last time I took it 1,5 years ago. Profound consciousness of God, but paradoxically knowing even less than outside of the psychedelic trip. After the trip I thought to myself: I was so conscious. If I couldn't get it in this state, with this much of a focus, I don't know if I ever can.

Question, especially to @Leo Gura but other experienced folks as well. Can it be "gotten" better, or is it precisely the point that I don't get anything at all and I bask in seeing Reality, in Self-Definition, in utter Willpower, in being the Godhead itself?

I feel like during profound trips 3-4 years ago my God-realizations were much more "defined". I am God, I am Truth, and all that. Nowadays I feel like I know less and I just experience the state. Insights don't arise as much. The consciousness is spectacular, but the finger is never really put on God. I'm wondering if it can be.

I'm thinking how I can reach more profound levels. I want more. A deeper understanding of God. I'm thinking how to better direct my efforts and how I can improve.

Edited April 25 by Sincerity

[samijiben]

Your words are touching.

No comment

(Other than to say that your trips moving in the direction of something quite mysterious and foreign, no longer fitting into the frame of "God-realization" or some such, signifies that God-Realization might have only existed as an elaborare concept & nothing more. See it this way: Leo, in his brilliance, coined the term (or not) "GOD-REALIZATION" to explain THIS!

BUT "THIS" CANNOT BE EXPLAINED ABSOLUTELY! WE ARE ALL INCREDULOUS! CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT! IT IS MAGNIFICENT AMEN HALLELUJAH)

 

 

[Leo Gura]

15 hours ago, Sincerity said:

I COULD NOT PUT A FINGER ON IT.

You can't put a finger on Emptiness/Nothing/Void.

There is a profound not-knowing to God. You are God but then God is not knowable. There is a dropping of knowing into being. Being is more fundamental than knowing. Meta-cognition fails to grasp Emptiness/Godhead because there isn't a thing there to grasp onto.

Edited April 26 by Leo Gura

[Sincerity]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can't put a finger on Emptiness/Nothing/Void.

There is a profound not-knowing to God. You are God but then God is not knowable. There is a dropping of knowing into being. Being is more fundamental than knowing. Meta-cognition fails to grasp Emptiness/Godhead because there isn't a thing there to grasp onto.

Got it. So when you talk about being Awake, that doesn’t mean having the finger put on God.

More like seeing EVERYTHING as God to insane degrees, but with the Mystery still intact. Right?

[Sincerity]

4 hours ago, samijiben said:

Your words are touching.

No comment

(Other than to say that your trips moving in the direction of something quite mysterious and foreign, no longer fitting into the frame of "God-realization" or some such, signifies that God-Realization might have only existed as an elaborare concept & nothing more. See it this way: Leo, in his brilliance, coined the term (or not) "GOD-REALIZATION" to explain THIS!

BUT "THIS" CANNOT BE EXPLAINED ABSOLUTELY! WE ARE ALL INCREDULOUS! CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT! IT IS MAGNIFICENT AMEN HALLELUJAH)

 

 

 🙇‍♂️

[Sincerity]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can't put a finger on Emptiness/Nothing/Void.

Also: is it your view that at a point one should give up trying to put the finger then, once it’s realized that it is futile? And redirect efforts to other aspects of awakening like the why, the how, etc?

Edited April 26 by Sincerity

[shree]

Try to gently oscillate between dissolving into pure ecstatic formlessness - and re-emerging into thought and self-reflection.

Let yourself vanish completely... then reappear... then vanish again.

On LSD, you have plenty of time to practice this.

There is no finger to be put on formlessness.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Sincerity said:

Got it. So when you talk about being Awake, that doesn’t mean having the finger put on God.

Well, that's tricky. I'm still working on that.

Quote

but with the Mystery still intact. Right?

A profound Mystery is essential. Mystery is not a mistake nor a lack of attainment.

1 hour ago, Sincerity said:

Also: is it your view that at a point one should give up trying to put the finger then, once it’s realized that it is futile?

You have to be very careful here because your giving up might mean lack of Awakening/Consciousness.

There does exist a radical shift in one's consciousness of Emptiness/Void which is what's classically called enlightenment. This is not just a giving up, it's a radical new attainment.

You can realize the Nothingness extremely deeply. So deeply that it's shocking and terrifying. So deeply that it feels like you killed yourself.

So I would guess you're still probably missing something.

Edited April 26 by Leo Gura

[Guest Nilsi]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can't put a finger on Emptiness/Nothing/Void.

There is a profound not-knowing to God. You are God but then God is not knowable. There is a dropping of knowing into being. Being is more fundamental than knowing. Meta-cognition fails to grasp Emptiness/Godhead because there isn't a thing there to grasp onto.

The crucial point is that there is no stable Self.

God is not the “Self” in the Jungian sense - not the integration of all separateness into unity.

God is radically open, like a Mandelbrot zoom: infinite, recursive, never settling.

There is never a moment where God can look at itself and say, “this is what I am,” because what God is is always in flux - not random chaos, but a continuous, self-differentiating unfolding.

Every moment, every movement, God invents itself anew - not by returning to unity, but by multiplying possibilities without end.

[Sincerity]

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, that's tricky. I'm still working on that.

A profound Mystery is essential. Mystery is not a mistake nor a lack of attainment.

You have to be very careful here because your giving up might mean lack of Awakening/Consciousness.

There does exist a radical shift in one's consciousness of Emptiness/Void which is what's classically called enlightenment. This is not just a giving up, it's a radical new attainment.

You can realize the Nothingness extremely deeply. So deeply that it's shocking and terrifying. So deeply that it feels like you killed yourself.

So I would guess you're still probably missing something.

Got it. 

Thanks for the responses! I will reconsider my efforts to be wiser. Still, with the understanding that I’m missing things - I do feel I am, indeed. I might need to change my approach somehow.

Edited April 26 by Sincerity

[Leo Gura]

@Sincerity Good.

Don't try to grasp Nothing with mind. To get it requires week long concentration retreats where you just sit and don't think. Buddha-style. This is where Buddhism is actually useful.

Edited April 26 by Leo Gura

[mmKay]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are God but then God is not knowable. 

Has your opinion on this recently changed? You used to say that you can actually fully grasp all of Reallity – completely.

I guess it's a paradox and strange loop.

[Yimpa]

12 minutes ago, mmKay said:

Has your opinion on this recently changed? You used to say that you can actually fully grasp all of Reality – completely.

Reminds me of the face morphing exercise from the blog 

 

Edited April 26 by Yimpa

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, mmKay said:

Has your opinion on this recently changed?

No.

Quote

You used to say that you can actually fully grasp all of Reallity – completely.

I guess it's a paradox and strange loop.

You can grasp God. You can also realize Nothingness in deeper ways.

But even as you grasp it, what's grasped is that it's a Mystery.

Infinity is Undefined. I've spoken about this before on my blog.

Consciousness has this irreducible ineffable quality to it which is the consequence of the finiteness of knowability.

You need to question, What does it really mean to know anything? What are the limits of knowing? But understanding that there exists a deeper level than knowing.

Edited April 26 by Leo Gura

[Sincerity]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can grasp God. You can also realize Nothingness in deeper ways.

Thanks for all your input here. Something clicked in me while reading it.

I remember in one of your episodes, I can't remember which, you made the distinction between going "up" in awakening vs "down". I realize you're making that same distinction here - going for God vs Nothingness, in your terminology here. You're saying that the Nothingness is not graspable, while God (supposedly) is. Correct me if I interpreted anything wrong here.

I realize I've been going about awakening by always focusing on what I am, thereby going "down". I'm contemplating how I can change my approach to focus on going "up". What questions to best ask myself for that. This would be a significant change in course for me.

Edited April 26 by Sincerity

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

the distinction between going "up" in awakening vs "down"

You may be referring to this section:

 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

You're saying that the Nothingness is not graspable, while God (supposedly) is

Yeah, but be careful because Nothingness can still be realized or not.

Quote

I realize I've been going about awakening by always focusing on what I am, thereby going "down".

That is not necessarily going down. Since what you are is God.

Quote

I'm contemplating how I can change my approach to focus on going "up". What questions to best ask myself for that.

Down is going to be formless.

Up is going to be more formed. For example, you can focus on realizing that your body is God. That would be in the up direction.

Psychedelics are the clearest path up.

Edited April 26 by Leo Gura

[Sincerity]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, but be careful because Nothingness can still be realized or not.

Yes, I'm 100% not done with that.

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is not necessarily going down. Since what you are is God.

Okay sure. I was just trying to follow the set terminology.

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Up is going to be more formed. For example, you can focus on realizing that your body is God. That would be in the up direction.

Okay cool. Yeah, on Saturday I could see that the entire Consciousness/Experience bubble was God (Me), the notebook I was putting in front of my eyes was Me, that it was being Willed/Dreamt into existence by Me, I did see my body as God's form (a very weird feeling, seeing my body as if being/belonging to some kind of DMT entity). I could see that I was INSTANTLY willing any actions and then the actions were being manifested, which was also a funny realization. For example, I instantly saw my will to write something down, then the action of writing proceeded, but I was so high level that my actual writing was very all over the place. I could barely write or walk but I saw the will to do these things immediately.

I guess maybe these are examples of going up.

[Sincerity]

I had a very cool vision on that trip.

Imagine a giant, rocky mountain, on top of which a huge, white, infinite Eye of God is stationed. The Eye is looking at everyone. It can be seen from the very bottom of the mountain. Each person sees the Eye as looking at exactly them.

When you make eye contact with the Eye, your body starts climbing up the mountain. The more you climb the mountain, the more you feel the intensity of God's Eye staring at you. It makes you want to break eye contact. However, when you do break eye contact, your body gives up on going up the mountain and it starts backtracking. You only go up the mountain if you keep eye contact with the Eye, otherwise you're going away from it.

The point is to withstand the intensity of the Eye. To go so far, the intensity is almost unbearable. You CRAVE to break eye contact. But you truly WANT God, so you're going up.

Only a true hero reaches the top.

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

I guess maybe these are examples of going up.

Yes, you already have experience of the up direction. Just do more of that.

The recent Infinite Mind Visualization I posted on the blog is a prime example of up-up-up.

Edited April 26 by Leo Gura