What is experience?

[Norbert Somogyi]

14 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Does a baby experience anything. Can you recall the moment you exited the womb. Do you remember when you were 3mths old. The baby doesn't recall or can't tell you about it when they grow older because they KNEW nothing.  A person with no memory or is brain dead, are they experiencing anything. If, for instance, a brain-dead person regained their brain's capacity, can they tell you what it was like and what they experienced as a brain-dead person. 

Experience is knowledge. You and experience are one. There is no separate entity that experiences for you and without the knowledge of you being there. You know because you are. You experience because you know you exist. You are experience, you are knowledge. Without either, you are nothing. 

Near-Death Experiences and some people's ability to recall them suggest that measurable brain activity is not a requirement for experience. Especially when they recall their out-of-body experiences where they can move around the room and see things that would otherwise be beyond their bodily sensory capacity or field of view. Unless consciousness during NREs visits an alternate plane of existence which is just a tiny bit different than ours.

Lacking the ability to recall memories from early ages is more like the lack of having a stable enough sense of self (separation and individuation phases by Mahler for example). However depending on how deeply the brain structure changes over time, there may be a chance to recall them through hypnosis or trance.

Edited April 21 by Norbert Somogyi

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Hojo said:

and you are flooded with knowledge

Nice! See my response.

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Norbert Somogyi said:

Near-Death Experiences and some people's ability to recall them suggest that measurable brain activity is not a requirement for experience. Especially when they recall their out-of-body experiences where they can move around the room and see things that would otherwise be beyond their bodily sensory capacity or field of view.

Lacking the ability to recall memories from early ages is more like the lack of having a stable enough sense of self (separation and individuation phases by Mahler for example). However depending on how deeply the brain structure changes over time, there may be a chance to recall them through hypnosis or trance.

Ok, I give you that but would they even be able to recall that without some type of knowledge. The part about the stable sense of sense is because they haven't acquired enough knowledge for a self to emerge. Recalling a memory is still one experiencing recalling a memory. They would have to know that they experienced that situation. Can't recall something not known. 

2 hours ago, Hojo said:

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Does a baby experience anything.

Of course, experience sensations 

[Princess Arabia]

42 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

"observation as the source of knowledge;

42 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

knowledge gained by repeated trials

2 hours ago, Hojo said:

There goes that word "knowledge" again. I say experience is knowledge.

 

Edited April 21 by Princess Arabia

[Norbert Somogyi]

7 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Ok, I give you that but would they even be able to recall that without some type of knowledge. The part about the stable sense of sense is because they haven't acquired enough knowledge for a self to emerge. Recalling a memory is still one experiencing recalling a memory. They would have to know that they experienced that situation. Can't recall something not known. 

 

Yeah, it's a good point. What can be added here are buried memories of trauma or even personality disorders (cut-off memory in-between personalities). You don't know that you experienced them, but for some reason they have a (heavy) influence on your experience from below. Are they part of your experience? I mean, I guess. You can experience the weight of them subconsciously, without knowing. Acquiring the knowledge and memories of you experiecning them just changes to you experiencing the ability to recall the memory that was previously hidden to you (and obviously feeling lighter and better thanks to the processing and release of the corresponding pain that was hidden before).

Without it, prenatal and childhood traumas wouldn't be such a heavy burden (at all).

Edited April 21 by Norbert Somogyi

[Sugarcoat]

Why can’t sense of self appear in objects? It seems like the sense of self is bound to the brain

[Yimpa]

Just now, Yimpa said:

Drop content creating. Drop social games. Drop all the human noise and nonsense. Even drop caring about this relationship. 

All I care about is what is True. Everything else is just games. I only care about picking up what is TRUE.

 

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Of course, experience sensations 

Does the baby know about that. The question is, what is experience not what is happening. The body is reacting, different from having an experience. 

[Norbert Somogyi]

7 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Why can’t sense of self appear in objects? It seems like the sense of self is bound to the brain

Psychosis, Salvia and awakening would like a word.

EDIT: All of the above (also NRE's) suggest that sense of self is not inherently tied to the brain, it is just most advantegous for the body to survive.

Edited April 21 by Norbert Somogyi

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

Why can’t sense of self appear in objects? It seems like the sense of self is bound to the brain

Great question. Because the sense of self is illusory. There's already no self only appears to be. It's not bound to the brain either it's energetic. There really is no brain. The same way I believe there's a self, is the same way I believe there's a brain. I've seen other brains and hear people talking about brains and believe I'm using my brain etcetc. These confirmations to that separate self is what's making it believe it also has a brain.

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Does the baby know about that. The question is, what is experience not what is happening. The body is reacting, different from having an experience. 

Knowing is part of the experience, its meaningless. It's the same being Einstein than an ant in essence, in fact being a complex experience full of layers is more dense and make it be isolated of the real nature of being. 

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Norbert Somogyi said:

that sense of self is not inherently tied to the brain, it is just most advantegous for the body to survive.

The body doesn't need a sense of self to survive. It's doing it all on it's own. If anything, the sense of self needs the body to feel alive.

[Sugarcoat]

4 minutes ago, Norbert Somogyi said:

Psychosis, Salvia and awakening would like a word.

EDIT: All of the above (also NRE's) suggest that sense of self is not inherently tied to the brain, it is just most advantegous for the body to survive.

Those things mentioned alter or remove sense of self right ? They all probably involve changes in the brain. I don’t mean that a brain has to have a self : the self could disappear. But it seems the brain is the type of appearance that produces a sense of self, and it doesn’t appear in other objects that’s what I mean by it being tied to the brain

 

What is NRE?

 

 

[Sugarcoat]

4 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Great question. Because the sense of self is illusory. There's already no self only appears to be. It's not bound to the brain either it's energetic. There really is no brain. The same way I believe there's a self, is the same way I believe there's a brain. I've seen other brains and hear people talking about brains and believe I'm using my brain etcetc. These confirmations to that separate self is what's making it believe it also has a brain.

Self is an appearance right. Brain is an appearance too. It seems appearances affect each other . So if you drop a glass on the floor it breaks, the appearance/form of the floor is interacting and affecting the appearance that is the glass , making it break. That’s how it appears. That’s why I say the brain produces the self. The appearance of a self is created by the appearance of a brain

I don’t know this, it’s just what I think. 

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Knowing is part of the experience, its meaningless. It's the same being Einstein than an ant in essence, in fact being a complex experience full of layers is more dense and make it be isolated of the real nature of being. 

Everything is meaningless; we give it meaning. If knowing is only a part of the experience, what is another part. Maybe the contents, you might say. The person has to know they're experiencing in order for experiencing to occur. If not, then it's just what's happening.

[Norbert Somogyi]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

Those things mentioned alter or remove sense of self right ? They all probably involve changes in the brain. I don’t mean that a brain has to have a self : the self could disappear. But it seems the brain is the type of appearance that produces a sense of self, and it doesn’t appear in other objects that’s what I mean by it being tied to the brain

 

What is NRE?

 

 

Near-Death Experience, which can result in a number of different types of experiences. They can happen in seconds (before an accident), but during clinical death too (for five minutes or even longer, latter of which otherwise would suggest tissue death due to a lack of oxygen without a pumping heart).

During these you don't always experience having a brain. In fact, do you ever experience having a brain or do you just experience the convincing thought of having it?

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

Self is an appearance right. Brain is an appearance too. It seems appearances affect each other . So if you drop a glass on the floor it breaks, the appearance/form of the floor is interacting and affecting the appearance that is the glass , making it break. That’s how it appears. That’s why I say the brain produces the self. The appearance of a self is created by the appearance of a brain

I don’t know this, it’s just what I think. 

Where is the appearance of a self. Do you see a self. Point to it. Point to your brain. They are both sense perceptions, not appearances.

[Norbert Somogyi]

9 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

The body doesn't need a sense of self to survive. It's doing it all on it's own. If anything, the sense of self needs the body to feel alive.

I'd argue not just to feel alive, but to meet their own needs (especially in the modern world). In ancient times we had nothing but our instincts, but we no longer live in such a world.

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

Where is the appearance of a self. Do you see a self. Point to it. Point to your brain. They are both sense perceptions, not appearances.

I would point to my head but I can’t pin point it exactly 

They are sense perceptions from my pov yes, or you could say it’s all appearance