Leo Gura

Playlist For Understanding Israel Deception

1,395 posts in this topic

20 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's fine to criticize the United States, but repeating that they're demons is childish.

I got that lingo from this very forum where tongue in cheek things are called the devil all the time. The term ''Zen Devil'' also for example. It's not saying something is inherently evil but that we are all capable of the good the bad and the ugly - and calling that out for what it is.

What the US and Israel are doing is ugly and devilish - and the US does bad things on mass scale whilst underwriting Israel doing more of the ugly things within their own proximity.

Whats happening in China (ie Uighurs) is bad. Whats happening in Yemen and Sudan is ugly.  There are degrees and scales to all this. Hitler and Stalin were Devils in chief then , today ISIS and Boko Haram take those mantles.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, zazen said:

I got that lingo from this very forum where tongue in cheek things are called the devil all the time. The term ''Zen Devil'' also for example. It's not saying something is inherently evil but that we are all capable of the good the bad and the ugly - and calling that out for what it is.

What the US and Israel are doing is ugly and devilish - and the US does bad things on mass scale whilst underwriting Israel doing more of the ugly things within their own proximity.

Whats happening in China (ie Uighurs) is bad. Whats happening in Yemen and Sudan is ugly.  There are degrees and scales to all this. Hitler and Stalin were Devils in chief then , today ISIS and Boko Haram take those mantles.

What the US does is dictated by a common and harmful human quality called greed. What Japan did, for example, was the manifestation of a collective narcissistic psychosis. What Islam does, blindly obeying a book written by a medieval warlord who proclaimed himself a messiah,I s profoundly stupid. You simply have to see it and acknowledge it, and then be able to correct it.

What china is doing is protecting itself from the expansion of islam, i think it's wise, why they should allow that mental sickness in their society? They are not acting too violent, just putting limits to a problem before it is unsolvable. 

What Israel is doing is trying to survive as a nation surrounded of hate of hundreds of millions. Of course it's actions are deeply imperfect, but the reason is reasonable. Maybe you think that they shouldn't be there, they think the opposite, and act accordingly. 

Edited by Breakingthewall

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United States is the Great Satan.

Iran nails that.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Posted (edited)

25 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What the US does is dictated by a common and harmful human quality called greed. What Japan did, for example, was the manifestation of a collective narcissistic psychosis. What Islam does, blindly obeying a book written by a medieval warlord who proclaimed himself a messiah,I s profoundly stupid. You simply have to see it and acknowledge it, and then be able to correct it.

What china is doing is protecting itself from the expansion of islam, i think it's wise, why they should allow that mental sickness in their society? They are not acting too violent, just putting limits to a problem before it is unsolvable. 

What Israel is doing is trying to survive as a nation surrounded of hate of hundreds of millions. Of course it's actions are deeply imperfect, but the reason is reasonable. Maybe you think that they shouldn't be there, they think the opposite, and act accordingly. 

Notice you take China, Japan, US and Israel's actions as human flaws that are understandable - but when it comes to Islam or Muslims you drop the nuance and call it a sickness. You essentialize Muslims and Islam as sick but excuse or sympathise with others as flawed human behaviour.

That's why I wrote the good, bad and the ugly - you need distinctions and nuance. What China is doing is bad but it's in order to stop the ugly manifestation of fundamentalist Islam - a lot of these Uighurs came to fight with ISIS in Syria for example. That's not justifying China's actions but understanding it from a POV of a state maintaining its national security and territorial integrity from any secessionists - just as any state would do including Spain suppressing Catalonian secession.

Bad can sometimes be defensive, ugly is domination dressed as survival, and evil is when you erase people’s humanity entirely. Israel is a mix - some things are defensive, a lot is just domination, and quite some evil has been seen on display also. Settlements, occupation, denial of statehood aren't purely survival but domination. This sea of hatred they exist in is caused by their actions of domination not survival - the way in which Israel is trying to ''survive'' ensures this hatred to exist.

The hate is caused by the way in which they tried to settle the land initially, in which they are now fully settled within via a state - but that they now deny any settlement to Palestinians on their periphery. That's the whole issue here. You should know that the region was historically a relatively peaceful place between Jews and Muslims in which they actually sought refuge from persecution in the West - that all changed with the forced establishment of Israel where the fate of one group of people was decided by another (colonialists) - the same way today in which the so called deal is being decided without the input of the group that deal is supposed to be about.

Edited by zazen

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Posted (edited)

@zazen

It seems your reading is selective. I said the Japanese empire was a collective mental illness and Islam a profound stupidity. Yes, China is trying to cure that "illness," just as the US should try to cure the illness of greed in its ruling classes.

Islam is negative in Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Palestine, Pakistan, Nigeria, Sudan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, and basically in all the countries where it is strong. It always tends toward fundamentalism, the oppression of women, and the demonization of culture.

If you say this is the US's fault, it's because it also tends very strongly toward victimhood. In short, it's something the world should overcome.

Regarding the situation in Israel and Palestine, I tell you once again that it is difficult to coexist with a nation whose essential principle is the disappearance of another.

Edited by Breakingthewall

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, zazen said:

This sea of hatred they exist in is caused by their actions of domination not survival

If it was that simple Israel wouldn't withdraw from Gaza in 2005, Lebanon in 2000, Hebron (80% of it) in 1997, Nablus, Jenin, Tulkarem, Ramallah, Qalqilia and Betlehem in 1995.

Edited by Nivsch

🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation.

 

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

If it was that simple Israel wouldn't withdraw from Gaza in 2005, Lebanon in 2000, Hebron (80% of it) in 1997, Nablus, Jenin, Tulkarem, Ramallah, Qalqilia and Betlehem in 1995.

Every “withdrawal” coincided with settlement growth elsewhere - every concession has been coupled with more dispossession.

The main point is why were they even there in the first place? Withdrawing from land you have no right to occupy doesn’t prove goodwill, it proves the original sin of taking that land to begin with.

Before 1947, Palestinians made up about 67% of the population and owned around 90% of the land, while Jews were about 33% of the population and held only 6–7% of the land. The 1947 UN Partition Plan flipped that balance, giving Jews 55% of the land and Palestinians 45%, even though Palestinians were the majority. After the 1948 war and the Nakba, Israel expanded to control 78% of historic Palestine, leaving Palestinians with just 22% (the West Bank and Gaza). Following the 1967 war, Israel occupied even that remaining 22%, meaning Palestinians went from 90% of the land to effectively 0% sovereign control in the span of just two decades.”

Flexing Israel’s later ‘’withdrawals’’ to somehow absolve them of their crimes and blur the situation as “complex” doesn’t cut it. It’s the same thing I see when Zionists flaunt their LGBT rights to pink wash their crimes. If Iran had a trans clinic would that somehow give them the green light to do bad elsewhere such as chant death to Israel and fly rocket kebabs into Tel Aviv? Lol

 

Edited by zazen

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3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

@zazen

It seems your reading is selective. I said the Japanese empire was a collective mental illness and Islam a profound stupidity. Yes, China is trying to cure that "illness," just as the US should try to cure the illness of greed in its ruling classes.

Islam is negative in Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Palestine, Pakistan, Nigeria, Sudan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, and basically in all the countries where it is strong. It always tends toward fundamentalism, the oppression of women, and the demonization of culture.

If you say this is the US's fault, it's because it also tends very strongly toward victimhood. In short, it's something the world should overcome.

Regarding the situation in Israel and Palestine, I tell you once again that it is difficult to coexist with a nation whose essential principle is the disappearance of another.

Stop with the oppression of women. The most oppressed thing these women have to deal with is bombs falling on top of them by foreign powers

You are just trigger happy to conquer other nations and a damsel in distress is the perfect call to action

Western women are less than prostitutes. Prostitutes at least get paid for sex before marriage. Western women have to give it away for free. They are sex slaves

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Posted (edited)

@zazen But Israel did withdraw.

Withdrawal exposes intentions and willingness you choose to not see.

Without the intention to coexist and to go towards agreement and peace, there is no point in withdrawal.

Edited by Nivsch

🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation.

 

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3 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@zazen But it withdraw.

Withdrawal exposes intentions and willingness you choose to not see.

It also exposes their somewhere they shouldn’t be. Those withdrawals from Nablus, Jenin, Ramallah, Bethlehem, etc. were cosmetic.

Israel carved the West Bank into islands under partial Palestinian control while it kept 60% of the land (area C) and full control of borders, air, water, and movement - basically creating bantustans.

If you steal someone’s house and then later give back one room or floor, that shows you stole the house. But then you’ll say it shows goodwill and kindness. You show goodwill by totally leaving the house you shouldn’t be in to begin with.

It’s the same with these deals being offered - offer shit deals that get turned down for being shit and then gaslight the other side as ungrateful negotiators - never mind Israel decapitating those negotiators across multiple sovereign countries.

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Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, zazen said:

It also exposes their somewhere they shouldn’t be. Those withdrawals from Nablus, Jenin, Ramallah, Bethlehem, etc. were cosmetic.

Israel carved the West Bank into islands under partial Palestinian control while it kept 60% of the land (area C) and full control of borders, air, water, and movement - basically creating bantustans.

If you steal someone’s house and then later give back one room or floor, that shows you stole the house. But then you’ll say it shows goodwill and kindness. You show goodwill by totally leaving the house you shouldn’t be in to begin with.

It’s the same with these deals being offered - offer shit deals that get turned down for being shit and then gaslight the other side as ungrateful negotiators - never mind Israel decapitating those negotiators across multiple sovereign countries.

This is where supremacy comes into play. "Your land belongs to us because god promised it to us so even us returning one room of your house is us showing mercy and hospitality to you, you the savage animal monkey with no development or ability to govern yourself, you who would still be stuck in the Stone Age if it weren't for us dominating you with our advancements"

Edited by Twentyfirst

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Posted (edited)

@zazen Israel has offered to the Palestinians ~96% of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. 

If Israel was the way you describe it, it wouldn't withdraw.

Edited by Nivsch

🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation.

 

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Posted (edited)

18 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@zazen Israel has offered to the Palestinians ~96% of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. 

If Israel was the way you describe it, it wouldn't withdraw.

Sounds noble on the surface but don’t miss the details of how the missing 4% get in the way of a viable state.

I don’t think your talking about Oslo but here’s a map on what was offered there: https://www.anera.org/what-are-area-a-area-b-and-area-c-in-the-west-bank/

It’s quite obvious why that would be denied - your being offered a country like Swiss cheese with holes in it or like islands. Maybe not a issue if you were offered Maldives lol

But the 96% offer at TABA runs into the same issue due to the settlements scattered everywhere. I found a map showing it:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/final-status-map-presented-by-israel-at-taba-january-2001

This was a joint summary prepared at the end of the talks and published by the EU (the host and observer):

“The two sides presented their respective maps. The Palestinian side expressed its concern that the Israeli map did not ensure the territorial contiguity of the Palestinian state, due to the number and location of Israeli settlements and their access roads, which would divide the territory into separate cantons.”

Even if only 4% of land is technically Israeli - the way it is spread throughout the land naturally requires settler routes and access to eachother and from IDF for patrol or protection ie occupation. Imagine if Russia said they need to protect Russian settlements scattered all over Ukraine and all they need is 4% of the land and access to the roads connecting to each settlement. Thats not a sovereign state or country.

Besides this they still wouldn’t have control over the air, water or borders. It’s like you giving me my house back but controlling the door, satellite and wifi - and giving me a curfew for being naughty from time to time. Imagine me taking your house, then giving it back except the 4% of house space which is the toilet - and I told you to figure out where your going to poop and pee - it's only 4% of the house but what a inconvenience that will cause you constipation your whole life lol.

Edited by zazen

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@zazen

Imagine if tomorrow Israel decided to dismantle the country and go to Madagascar. What would happen? The next day, a long and bloody civil war would begin between the different factions, and the victor, whether the radical Islamists of Hamas or a Saddam Hussein-type warlord, would establish a dictatorship that would last indefinitely, as in the rest of the surrounding countries. Opponents would be killed, and a minority would become wealthy, leaving the rest in misery. When they say "freedom for Palestine," I assume that's what they mean. The problem then is that they couldn't blame anymore the Jews or the Americans. Well, sure they will keep blaming them

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Posted (edited)

@Breakingthewall That's basically a argument for colonialism though bro. If people are too unwise to govern themselves - then why have Democracy also because people are too unwise to vote properly? Results may vary.

Flawed political freedom is still better than none at all - it’s still their right to work through internal issues themselves after solving the bigger issue of ridding themselves of someone else governing them.

When Europe was in the Dark ages and the Islamic Golden age was in full swing should they have governed Europe with their more developed hygiene, education, libraries and hospitals? Should the Muslims of Al-Andalus who had street lighting go to literally ''enlighten'' the Europeans in their dark age and dark streets with no lighting at all?

This rapper sarcastically mocks this very attitude in the first 2 minutes:

''Whoever's more human, must have the right to do the abusing.

I imagine that that means you then, other human just as clueless, foolish fools.

For a tortured soul, bought for a quarter of gold.

One little slaughter whole, why not? They don't have souls.

They love their children less than we do so they are less than equal.

They abuse women so we kill them cuz they are bloody villains.

That's right, we are the feminists, for the women of the world,(we) kill terrorists.

Liberate them from their burkas (head covering) cuz they feel more free with the children murdered.''

Liberal interventionist pushers think blowing up a terrorist includes hijab and burkas flying off in the blast radius to liberate the women and free their hair..a step closer to free the nipple which is obviously the ideal we’re aiming for.

 

Edited by zazen

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29 minutes ago, zazen said:

When Europe was in the Dark ages and the Islamic Golden age was in full swing should they have governed Europe with their more developed hygiene, education, libraries and hospitals? Should the Muslims of Al-Andalus who had street lighting go to literally ''enlighten'' the Europeans in their dark age and dark streets with no lighting at all?

They tried, but they were stopped by force. 

30 minutes ago, zazen said:

Whoever's more human, must have the right to do the abusing.

It's not matter or abuse or colonialism, The point is that Israel exists, and the Palestinians' goal is for Israel not to exist. Therefore, Israel isn't interested in making a nation that desires its extermination stronger.

The victimhood of Israel oppressing Palestine is hilarious. Imagine what would happen to the moderate Palestinians living in Israel when the fundamentalists come to power to establish an Islamic utopia. Ask them, those who work as doctors, lawyers, and teachers under the horrible Jewish tyranny, what they really think.

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36 minutes ago, zazen said:

Whoever's more human, must have the right to do the abusing.

I imagine that that means you then, other human just as clueless, foolish fools.

For a tortured soul, bought for a quarter of gold.

One little slaughter whole, why not? They don't have souls.

They love their children less than we do so they are less than equal.

They abuse women so we kill them cuz they are bloody villains.

That's right, we are the feminists, for the women of the world,(we) kill terrorists.

Liberate them from their burkas (head covering) cuz they feel more free with the children murdered.''

Oh so profound. Ask to the Iranian, maybe they prefer be bombed by Israel than stand another 50 years under the Islamic tyranny.

If they ask me, I prefer be killed than be a woman in Afghanistan, without the slightest doubt. 

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Posted (edited)

43 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

They tried, but they were stopped by force. 

Why did they stop them? For the same reason anyone would stop another people from governing over them. Hmm, perhaps Palestinians are human just like everyone else and would resist just like anyone else - as has been the case down history - most evident in anti-colonialist struggles.

Why is it hard for you to understand Palestinians resisting the same thing? It's either because you have a Eurocentric bigoted world view, or maybe your just late for your siesta there in Spain papi.

Edited by zazen

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Posted (edited)

22 minutes ago, zazen said:

Why did they stop them? For the same reason anyone would stop another people from governing over them. So why is it hard to understand Palestinians resisting the same? Maybe you need a siesta cos your thinking is getting so sloppy papi. It’s about that time.

They stopped them because they could. The Palestinian are not resisting colonization. Is Iran resisting colonization when it claims the dissapearance of Israel? Is Israel trying to colonize Iran? The Muslims want the dissapearance of Israel because then don't like another stronger culture and religion close them, they feel very inferior and prefer shit for everyone than coexistence.

These mentally retarded people don't want to live better or be independent. They're angry that Israel is stronger and they're dwarfed in culture, science, technology, and basically everything.

Islam is angry because it's a failed ideology. Without the West, they would be in the Middle Ages. They wouldn't have discovered electricity.

Edited by Breakingthewall

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2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The Palestinian are not resisting colonization.

What are they resisting exactly? 

Iran has been couped by the US/UK in 1953, invaded by US backed Kuwait in 1980's, and continues to be sanctioned and sabotaged till today with Israel being the launchpad from which this Western overreach continues to dominate the entire region. That's what Iran is resisting.

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

These mentally retarded people don't want to live better or be independent. They're angry that Israel is stronger and they're dwarfed in culture, science, technology, and basically everything.

Your such a racist bigot with retarded views yourself. I don't care if I get a warning for saying that - worth it in my opinion. They don't want to live independent but yet die fighting for independence don't they? Your logic is sloppy as hell.

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Islam is angry because it's a failed ideology. Without the West, they would be in the Middle Ages. They wouldn't have discovered electricity.

A religion can't be angry - you mean Muslims are angry lol. Without the Islamic golden age the West would probably still be in the Dark ages. 

From Chat GPT because I cba to waste energy writing to a bigot:

''When European scholars translated Arabic scientific works in places like Toledo, Sicily, and Córdoba, they rediscovered rationalism, astronomy, algebra, and physics. Figures like Roger Bacon, Copernicus, and Newton all cited Muslim scientists.

Without that transmission, Europe wouldn’t have had the mathematical and experimental tools that made discoveries like electricity even conceivable.

1. The “Dark Ages” were a knowledge blackout in Europe.

After the fall of the Western Roman Empire (5th century), Europe fragmented into feudal kingdoms. Literacy collapsed, libraries burned, and classical learning — from medicine to astronomy — nearly vanished. The Church monopolized knowledge, and scientific inquiry was largely stifled.

2. Meanwhile, the Islamic world became the keeper and innovator of knowledge.

From the 8th to 13th centuries, the Islamic Golden Age flourished across Baghdad, Damascus, Cairo, and Córdoba. Muslim scholars translated Greek, Persian, and Indian works into Arabic — preserving them from extinction — and then expanded them dramatically.
They pioneered algebra, optics, chemistry, engineering, and medicine, while developing the scientific method centuries before Europe embraced it.

3. Europe “woke up” by rediscovering that knowledge through Islamic Spain and Sicily.

When Christians in Europe began expanding southward (the Reconquista) and interacting with Muslim Spain, they encountered libraries, universities, and urban sophistication that dwarfed anything in the north.

Cities like Toledo and Córdoba became translation hubs where Arabic texts were rendered into Latin.

Scholars such as Gerard of Cremona and Adelard of Bath brought this rediscovered knowledge to Europe’s universities.
This influx of ideas kickstarted the Renaissance — literally, rebirth — meaning a rebirth of knowledge Europe had lost and reacquired through the Muslim world.

4. The domino effect: Golden Age → Renaissance → Scientific Revolution → Electricity.

Islamic empiricism inspired European scholasticism.

That led to Copernicus, Galileo, Descartes, who built on Arabic astronomy and philosophy.

That opened the path to Newton’s laws, and finally to Faraday and Maxwell, who formalized electricity and electromagnetism.''

 

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