Is it just me or is friendship not really prioritized after school

[soos_mite_ah]

This might be a more US centric thing since we don't have many walkable cities and third spaces are disappearing but I feel like now that I have graduated from college, it's so much harder to make and keep friends. I know this isn't some kind of ground breaking revalation that when people graduate and enter the workforce they aren't surrounded by their peers as they used to be. But I feel like as you grow up, friends kind of become an after thought, like people who you hang out with once a month or once every other month to "catch up" on life rather than people you live life along side as you did growing up. 

Part of it is due to work schedules. I know a good bit of people my age who are working 60+ hours either because they have a job and are going to school, they're in a demanding career like consulting or investment banking so they can establish their career and get good exit opportunities, or they are working multiple jobs / have a side hustle or two in order to make ends meet.

Another part of it is how it's normalized, and expected to spend time with a significant other regularly but then once you have similar expectations for friends to meet up like once a week, then it is kind of seen as you're doing too much. It's also reflected in the way that I feel like most people talk about lonliness since often when we talk about lonliness, we talk about it in a romantic sense, not in a platonic sense. I think it also goes back to the whole ideal around having a nuclear family where it's just you, your spouse, and 2.5 kids where there isn't really an emphasis on a larger community beyond that.  I'm sure this will get exponentially worse once my peers really start getting married and having kids since especially for women, your whole life and identity changes to where often times you're the one taking on more mental load to where it's hard to have time for yourself, much less time for friendships. 

But yeah, I'm someone who derives a good amount of fulfillment from friends and it kind of makes me sad that adult life is built mainly around work, maybe family/significant other and that it doesn't really incentivize people to build deeper connections platonically unless both parties are REALLY invested in it and are actively working to make this work. 

[soos_mite_ah]

Also, I meant to put this in the relationships section. Is there a way for mods to move this thread there lol? 

[Evan Gill]

Yes, it only gets worse as you get older. The last time I had a solid group of friends was when I was away at University. There are a number of reasons why friendships dissolve after school. The main one being, you aren't forced to be around each other all of the time anymore. The other, as you mentioned, is just that people get full-time jobs, partners etc and the priorities change. Friendships just sort of naturally dissipate, unfortunately. Another reason is that people usually end up moving away from each other. No one really stays in the same place for too long.

I'm 32 now and only have random individual friends all over the world. Fortunately, I'm pretty introverted and it doesn't bother me too much. I'm not sure I would even have much time to spend with friends since I'm pretty occupied with self-actualizing and other interests. I do wish I had more people to travel with though.

It sounds like you are still young. My advice would be to invest time and energy into the friendships you still have and make an effort in getting together with those people (only if its a mutual effort, don't try to force something that is no longer there).

[soos_mite_ah]

@Evan Gill I know that as you get older and people go on different paths and phases in life that friendships also ebbs and flow as you grow apart in one season and then grow back together in other seasons. I guess as someone who is 24 and only like 2 years out of college, it's hard to keep the big picture in perspective since it's only been 2 years and there is limitted life experiences in longer drawn out cycles. 

I have a handful of friends who I have good relationships with where we can be vulnerable and authentic with each other and I know we both put in effort. But sometimes life happens and I understand that the distance isn't in any malicious way. I'm also an introvert and I generally thrive in social settings that are one on one or in small groups so I guess in my mind, since I'm not an extrovert with groups and groups of friends and I know things are going to get worse as I get older, I wonder if like the 7 ish friends I have will dwindle to like 2 once I reach my 30s.

I have plenty of hobbies and interests, I generally enjoy my own presance, and I would even argue that one of the ways that I like to actualize / work on myself is through platonic relationships since I'm of the belief that there is only so much you can work on yourself and heal in isolation. It's not a lonliness that is coming from a desparate  place of wondering if there is something wrong with me or feeling needy/ insecure because I'm not hanging out with people regularly. I guess I find myself mourning a time when life was more so set up for these types of interactions and I catch myself wondering if this is just adulthood and I just have to suck it up or what. 

Like I get that friendships take work and in a way I like that I'm not around people constantly and that there is some degree of effort that people take to get out of their way to hang out. And I understand that some friendships just naturally grow apart and that this is alright and not anyone's fault really. But sometimes it feels like an uphill climb to mantain anything. It's one thing to go out of your way and put in effort. It's another thing to feel like you're swimming up stream because the path of lease resistance is carrying you in other ways due to actual logistical issues beyond anyone's control. 

[Basman]

The core issue is that we no longer fundamentally depend on direct relationships for survival like we did in the past. If you wanted to, you can completely isolate yourself, work remotely, etc. and be completely fine whereas that wasn't an option when we where farmers. You'd literally die. In the past you had to work with others to survive and your "colleagues" where simultaneously your friends, neighbors and family.

Social circle and survival used to be intertwined, especially as hunter-gatherers. Whole families used to live and work at the same factory. As we developed as a society, we've effectively min-maxed dependency on others out to get shit done as much as we could and we separated our social life from our survival like separating conjoined twins. As a consequence of the separation of work and community, a rich social life is simply a lower priority than work whereas in the past social and work where intertwined and didn't have to be prioritized to the same degree if at all. People don't have the time and energy to do both when they are separated.

Its a downside of our (highly effective) capitalist system.

There's also the fact that people just move around a lot. Personally, I have close family members living separately in multiple different countries. We are very atomized as a society today.

Edited June 25, 2024 by Basman

[soos_mite_ah]

@Basman I agree. There is a lot of hyper individualism and late stage capitalism that is contributing to isolation and the so called lonliness epidemic. I don't think this is healthy for most people. 

I currently have a significant other who I talk to every other day or so and we meet up like once or twice a week. So I have at least one person who I interact with on a regular basis. Which is nice but I guess it feels weird because I consider myself as someone who derives more fufillment from friendships than romantic relationships, yet here I am spending a large chunk of my social time with him, not only because I love him but because our schedules and work loads align more closely than my other relationships. But sometimes, I just get the vibe in general society that if you have the time, it's kind of expected that you spend the little time you have with relatives and your significant other if you have one and friends are a nice bonus or after thought. 

25 minutes ago, Basman said:

If you wanted to, you can completely isolate yourself, work remotely, etc. and be completely fine

Even as an introvert, this seems like hell tbh lol. Like if you wanted to, you could work remotly, have anything you need shopping wise delivered to your house, and never leave which seems dystopian af. 

I guess work, whether it's the long hours, worrying about bills, or having to move around for you job, it really comes between the resources you have to pour into yourself much less spend time with others which is so unfortunate. And while I'm in a good place with work life balance, I wish the people around me had that too. I'm just venting at this point lol. 

[Basman]

@soos_mite_ah  Yeah, it sucks. Its one of the downsides our current model of survival. Socialization is just not a top priority, especially friends as family is generally considered more important.

I think in the future politically we should start advocating for less work hours. With technology and AI getting increasingly better, there's really no need for us to work as much as we do and there are a lot of important value generated for society when people have more time to nurture their relationships. It'll help reverse the declining birth rate for one and curb some of the excesses of mental health problems, like mass shootings or drug addictions.

I think less work hours is a good compromise considering.

[MarkKol]

It does get harder after school, but I think you just need to find the right friends, the one’s who aren’t so career focused, after all, there are many many people who piss their life away partying, going out etc…

I basically gave up living in America, there’s too much grind / hustle & thug culture, which I surprisingly didn’t even notice until I got there, I don’t like seeing people living in lifeless neighborhoods with lifeless wooden houses that they probably don’t even own because they’re broke. These lifeless suburbs I’m talking about exist everywhere in the US, east & west, I’m guessing it’s even worse for states in the middle. I’m going through a slight change of character because of that, but I digress. It left a sour taste in my mouth.

Meanwhile, if I continue living in Europe, I can move around pretty fast, one moment I’m in France, and half an hour later I’m in Berlin, or Belgrade, I can even live in Dubai because It’s pretty close. 

Edited June 26, 2024 by MarkKol

[soos_mite_ah]

7 hours ago, MarkKol said:

It does get harder after school, but I think you just need to find the right friends, the one’s who aren’t so career focused, after all, there are many many people who piss their life away partying, going out etc…

I do see some truth in this. I know with my friends who are working long working hours, most of them don't want to do that or are doing it temporarily. The ones who absolutely didn't want this ended up in these jobs that work long hours partially because they didn't know what red flags to look for in interviews or because they were funnelled into a certain career path after college because they weren't aware of the other options at the time since they were in school their whole lives. The ones who are doing it temporarily are doing it out of either financial necessity or because it's important to utilize opportunities they have to set themselves up for the future. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if your values are in the right place, that doesn't mean your labor won't get exploited since this is a systemic issue. And things aren't looking too hot out there in the job market and often times college students try to cling on what they can get since they have limitting barginning power in the first place. I would say that I'm a relatively career minded person, however, I got lucky and found a job that doesn't stress me out too much. 

But yeah.. I guess in the mean time as things calm down a bit in terms of the people in my life going through a milion transitions right after college, it would be better to find friends who suit my life style better. 

[MuadDib]

In response to the thoughtful discussion above, I'd like to share some of my own experiences and reflections on the challenges of making and maintaining friendships in the modern world.

Having moved between countries multiple times throughout my life, I've often struggled to find my bearings culturally and establish a sense of belonging within platonic friend groups. In our increasingly globalized and connected world, traditional cultural norms and systems for forming friendships may not always apply or be readily accessible, leaving many of us feeling adrift and uncertain about how to navigate the social landscape.

Moreover, so much of human relating is based on survival drives, which can lead us to judge and categorize others based on their perceived value or usefulness. This tendency can create a sense of dehumanization and hinder the formation of genuine connections, as we find ourselves increasingly siloed into different cliques or groups based on superficial criteria rather than shared values and interests. We are social animals who have architected our lives to be lonely through technology, social media, remote work, and other modern developments that separate our social lives from our survival.

Another factor that can make forming friendships challenging is the pervasive narrative of "success" that has dominated recent generations. The societal pressure to achieve certain milestones, such as securing a job, buying a house, or starting a family, can leave people feeling unworthy of friendship if they haven't met these expectations. This focus on external markers of success can lead to a vicious cycle where individuals feel too embarrassed or inadequate to seek out connections, further exacerbating their sense of isolation and hindering personal growth. The irony here is that nobody truly achieves "success" even as it's defined in current contexts on their own. I thought this snip from a discussion between Simon Sinek and diary of a CEO eloquently captured this paradox:
 

To break free from this stalemate, I believe we need to challenge these narratives and prioritize friendship and personal connections as essential components of a fulfilling life, regardless of one's perceived "success" in other areas. By placing a higher value on platonic relationships and creating opportunities for genuine connection, we can foster a sense of belonging, encouragement, and support that enables us to navigate life's challenges and thrive.

Strong, supportive friendships can provide a safe space for personal growth and motivation, helping us to break free from feelings of disconnection and stagnation. By actively working to cultivate authentic connections based on shared values and interests, we can build meaningful friendships that sustain us through the ups and downs of life, even in the face of societal pressures and changing cultural landscapes.

There is an entire industry to help people become better leaders and maintain romantic relationships, but precious little guidance on how to be better friends. We have lost the skill of making friends as adults, with many people, especially young men, struggling with the basics of forming friendships. Acts of service and doing things for others are the key to being a good friend, but this is a muscle we have let atrophy in the modern world.

Ultimately, the challenges of making and maintaining friendships in the modern world are complex and multifaceted, shaped by a range of cultural, societal, and personal factors. The rise of hyper-individualism and "hustle culture" driven by late-stage capitalism has de-prioritized relationships and architected our lives for disconnection and loneliness. Having close friendships is one of the best "biohacks" for the mental health issues that are increasing as a result. By acknowledging these challenges and consciously prioritizing the value of platonic relationships, we can create a more fulfilling and connected existence for ourselves and those around us.

[BlueOak]

Socialize a lot. Go out there and spend time around people in different social settings. Society would reform its 60-hour work weeks if people were actively socializing again because that would form a core component of life again.

Think about how many hours you spent for the friendships at school to form. They didn't happen in a meeting or two. 

It's no different for adults. Sure, our brains get increasingly set in our ways, but we are able to adapt and still need time around an acquaintance to form a friendship. Start with a light conversation, and if you feel relating to someone is leading to a friendship you want, deepen it or continue in further events. If not, enjoy the experience you went for; no big deal, and maybe try something else next week.

I've not much to add; the analysis was great above. Only that socializing shouldn't take cerebral effort. As life has become increasingly cerebral (mentally focused), we've forgotten how to just be around people. Less thought, more doing.

I should take my own advice. It's always money with me that holds me back; I struggle to pay for the necessities, so I don't put any aside for socializing. I never start off light either, because I am often serious. So it was good I found a writing group because I can continuously throw myself off the deep end by talking about the pieces we all write in as much depth as I like. It's a bit like this forum in that respect, and although the connection is limited to interactions of text, it's fairly broad, open to my responses (which is underheard of on places like YouTube), and maintains an often good quality of conversation, so I really appreciate the efforts of Leo and the moderators here.

Like many of you, I miss friendships; when I see people who have strong friendships, I have a certain amount of envy for their relationship.

@MuadDib
The idea of creating a place that teaches and facilitates friendship is something you or someone else should do immediately. It is a brilliant one.

[mmKay]

The school system serves up socialization on a silver platter, that is one of the few great things about it .

Once you're out you actually have to take responsibility for your social life. You don't wanna be the dude who peaked in highschool