End of suffering?

[Breakingthewall]

The question would be: can you be happy in hell? If it were yes, then it wouldn't be hell anymore.

So what makes hell hell? simply the ego, which is the creator of hell. and what is the ego? the distortion between what is and what should be.

A crocodile has little ego, it is hungry and it should not be. that's all his ego. the rest is perfection. a human....well, an absolutely horrible mess in which absolutely everything should be a little different. everything, absolutely, this is human nature, imbalance.

What is the imbalance for? to produce movement. A crocodile does what crocodiles do for 200 million years and everything is perfect like that. chill and do the crocodile. a human is a crazy machine of evolution. a real pain, but it seems necessary, it is what reality wants, and there is no discussion. So the only happiness of humans is to enjoy their unhappiness. The end of suffering is to enjoy suffering. 

To deny suffering is to deny your humanity. Would you like to be a crocodile? Sure it's relaxing, but you're not and you can't force yourself to be. suffering, human frustration, will always exist. accepting it fully is liberation

[James123]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The question would be: can you be happy in hell? If it were yes, then it wouldn't be hell anymore.

So what makes hell hell? simply the ego, which is the creator of hell. and what is the ego? the distortion between what is and what should be.

A crocodile has little ego, it is hungry and it should not be. that's all his ego. the rest is perfection. a human....well, an absolutely horrible mess in which absolutely everything should be a little different. everything, absolutely, this is human nature, imbalance.

What is the imbalance for? to produce movement. A crocodile does what crocodiles do for 200 million years and everything is perfect like that. chill and do the crocodile. a human is a crazy machine of evolution. a real pain, but it seems necessary, it is what reality wants, and there is no discussion. So the only happiness of humans is to enjoy their unhappiness. The end of suffering is to enjoy suffering. 

To deny suffering is to deny your humanity. Would you like to be a crocodile? Sure it's relaxing, but you're not and you can't force yourself to be. suffering, human frustration, will always exist. accepting it fully is liberation

Only way to stop suffering is not pursuing any pleasure, which is enlightenment. Mind becomes quite, mind is no more chatting. That's all. 

Great topic by the way. Thanks for sharing.

[Sugarcoat]

What does it mean to accept suffering? Let’s say someone has a painful disease , accepting it doesn’t lessen the pain . 

[James123]

Just now, Sugarcoat said:

What does it mean to accept suffering? Let’s say someone has a painful disease , accepting it doesn’t lessen the pain . 

If you do not seek for recovering, and accepting the pain, pain is still there but you just do not suffer from it.

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, James123 said:

If you do not seek for recovering, and accepting the pain, pain is still there but you just do not suffer from it.

Pain is still pain and it’s suffering but someone could have a positive mindset still and live with it but they still suffer the pain isn’t it so. 

[Ishanga]

Life is about Possibility and Potential, as Human Beings we have the most capability in these areas of Possibility/Potential, one can be super Blissed out or Suffering immensely, that is the possibility, one can choose either or, or one can become one with nature and find out what is the natural occurence, Suffering or Bliss?

Being Human decide what You want to feel and experience, don't live by accident, one day Blissed out, one Day Suffering, this is no good, it puts you on a zig zag trajectory, Suffering is Life defeating, disempowering for Us Humans, Bliss is Life Empowering, that is all, make the choice...

Edited May 27, 2024 by Ishanga

[James123]

2 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Pain is still pain and it’s suffering but someone could have a positive mindset still and live with it but they still suffer the pain isn’t it so. 

That's why Enlightenment is necessary in order to not suffer. 

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, James123 said:

That's why Enlightenment is necessary in order to not suffer. 

I was thinking along those lines too

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Being Human decide what You want to feel and experience, don't live by accident, one day Blissed out, one Day Suffering, this is no good, it puts you on a zig zag trajectory, Suffering is Life defeating, disempowering for Us Humans, Bliss is Life Empowering, that is all, make the choice...

Yes, well, that's ok until the Romans sell your family to a brothel and make you row with whips to death. Human experience use to do uncomfortable turns

[Ishanga]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, well, that's ok until the Romans sell your family to a brothel and make you row with whips to death. Human experience use to do uncomfortable turns

Yes, but that is not what ppl are suffering, People are suffering going to school, being in relationships, having success and Money and Fame, they suffering their health, their day to day life of opportunity...Its okay to suffer when the romans are selling your family to a brothel and whips are out, okay I get that, but don't suffer what is empowering and healthy which is the case for the most part in people's lives, that is living by Accident, which means there is a lack of Consciousness in place, when Consciousness is in place you'll see at the Minimum Peace is the natural experience of life, You know You are far from Truth and Consciousness when Suffering is still in your life, pain will happen, suffering will not..

[James123]

14 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I was thinking along those lines too

Amazing. 

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Pain is still pain and it’s suffering but someone could have a positive mindset still and live with it but they still suffer the pain isn’t it so. 

Pain is a natural mechanism intended to cause suffering. The function of this suffering is to provoke a movement in the individual to avoid it and thus prolong his survival.

The problem is that as a human you are not an individual, you are a hive entity, and your suffering is the suffering of the hive, and its goal is not to move you to promote your survival, but to push the hive to promote its evolution. and the software is made so that you cannot or do not want to escape from it. Even that you can't understand it, and make you think that you are acting selfish when you are just a programmed ant

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Yes, but that is not what ppl are suffering, People are suffering going to school, being in relationships, having success and Money and Fame, they suffering their health, their day to day life of opportunity...Its okay to suffer when the romans are selling your family to a brothel and whips are out, okay I get that, but don't suffer what is empowering and healthy which is the case for the most part in people's lives, that is living by Accident, which means there is a lack of Consciousness in place, when Consciousness is in place you'll see at the Minimum Peace is the natural experience of life, You know You are far from Truth and Consciousness when Suffering is still in your life, pain will happen, suffering will not..

Yes, ok, it's an extreme example but in another hand those small details like suffering because you are ugly and girls reject you, or because your parents hate each other, or because your neighbor's car is better than yours, is, as you say, lack of conscience. but suffering because your family is sold to the brothel and all that.... is also. exactly the same, but in another level. It's just programming. A crocodile does not suffer if its family is sold to the zoo, it suffers if you set it on fire for example.

Well, you, as part of the human hive organism, suffer because your wife has left you for another and demands money from you. You suffer enormously, more than the crocodile dying of hunger. since the hive wants your energy, your movement, your push, so that added to other billions of pushes, it moves forward the total evolutionary organism called humanity. 

[Schizophonia]

God imagines a 3d place where an avatar avoid some x things (pain) and gets closer to y other (pleasure).

If you get closer to x, the avatar does a little comedy (yelling, getting agitated, etc.)

God creates avatars here and there who can avoid comedy while feeling pain for whatever reason ("spiritual practices")

Most avatars will play this little comedy.

Meditation and other dissociative practices (even if it's still in duality) which allow the avatar to no longer act the part also prevent it from feeling pleasure.
Most meditation practitioners actually lean more towards some form of depression.
Most leaders of "eastern spirituality" are not very happy and ecstatic.
(Not very politically correct).

 

Edited May 27, 2024 by Schizophonia

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, ok, it's an extreme example but in another hand those small details like suffering because you are ugly and girls reject you, or because your parents hate each other, or because your neighbor's car is better than yours, is, as you say, lack of conscience. but suffering because your family is sold to the brothel and all that.... is also. exactly the same, but in another level. It's just programming. A crocodile does not suffer if its family is sold to the zoo, it suffers if you set it on fire for example.

Well, you, as part of the human hive organism, suffer because your wife has left you for another and demands money from you. You suffer enormously, more than the crocodile dying of hunger. since the hive wants your energy, your movement, your push, so that added to other billions of pushes, it moves forward the total evolutionary organism called humanity. 

I would say Pain is necessary for most ppl that lack Clarity, which is a by product of being Highly Conscious, Pain in a physical, mental and emotional way, whether it is breaking a leg, losing a life partner, or realizing a belief you had is not true, that may cause pain, that should cause you to reflect and adjust the direction of Your life, that is why pain is there, but suffering is the repeated experience of pain without the thing that happend happen, it is living in the past and becoming Wounded by it, not Wise, being Wounded is Unconscious action, becoming Wise is Conscious action and leads You to more Clarity in life and how to make it more Empowering.  

Either You live compulsively, Unconsciously or by Accident which will more than likely lead to more Suffering or you live Consciously, with Clarity and live via Peacefulness and Bliss, that is our choice here as Human Beings, we have that choice to make for ourselves!!

[Ishanga]

5 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

God imagines a 3d place where an avatar avoid some x things (pain) and gets closer to y other (pleasure).

If you get closer to x, the avatar does a little comedy (yelling, getting agitated, etc.)

God creates avatars here and there who can avoid comedy while feeling pain for whatever reason ("spiritual practices")

Most avatars will play this little comedy.

Meditation and other dissociative practices (even if it's still in duality) which allow the avatar to no longer act the part also prevent it from feeling pleasure.
Most meditation practitioners actually lean more towards some form of depression.
Most leaders of "eastern spirituality" are not very happy and ecstatic.
(Not very politically correct).

 

Umm from my research most meditators are more Happy and Stress free than non meditators, and in my experience most leaders in Eastern Spirituality are more happy and ecstatic lol.. 

The goal is to not those things, Bliss and Happiness are not the goals of Spirituality, they are by products of Being very Aware and Conscious, being Unaware/Unconscious leads to more suffering in my experience..

Edited May 27, 2024 by Ishanga

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

I would say Pain is necessary for most ppl that lack Clarity, which is a by product of being Highly Conscious, Pain in a physical, mental and emotional way, whether it is breaking a leg, losing a life partner, or realizing a belief you had is not true, that may cause pain, that should cause you to reflect and adjust the direction of Your life, that is why pain is there, but suffering is the repeated experience of pain without the thing that happend happen, it is living in the past and becoming Wounded by it, not Wise, being Wounded is Unconscious action, becoming Wise is Conscious action and leads You to more Clarity in life and how to make it more Empowering.  

Either You live compulsively, Unconsciously or by Accident which will more than likely lead to more Suffering or you live Consciously, with Clarity and live via Peacefulness and Bliss, that is our choice here as Human Beings, we have that choice to make for ourselves!!

I understand what you're saying from an individual perspective, but I think we have to look at it by taking a step back. The volume of suffering that humanity has generated for itself to evolve from the animal integrated in nature to civilization and what this entails is of a brutal, unimaginable dimension.

a crucible of hellfire created to shape a structure that existence desires. forget the ideals of kindness and love and observe the naked reality, its brutality and absolute lack of mercy. Reality doesn't care about the suffering, it cares about the result. and the reality is you. 

Let's say that the substance of reality is absolute happiness, but its creation mechanism uses suffering without restriction because for reality it is simply a means to deepen in itself. Then suffering should be perceived as what it is and accept it as a part of the game, and see it's beauty. 

[Ishanga]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I understand what you're saying from an individual perspective, but I think we have to look at it by taking a step back. The volume of suffering that humanity has generated for itself to evolve from the animal integrated in nature to civilization and what this entails is of a brutal, unimaginable dimension.

a crucible of hellfire created to shape a structure that existence desires. forget the ideals of kindness and love and observe the naked reality, its brutality and absolute lack of mercy. Reality doesn't care about the suffering, it cares about the result. and the reality is you. 

Let's say that the substance of reality is absolute happiness, but its creation mechanism uses suffering without restriction because for reality it is simply a means to deepen in itself. Then suffering should be perceived as what it is and accept it as a part of the game, and see it's beauty. 

All there is is YOU, everything in the end is Subjective Experience, but as a Human Being You can Experience this as "I am completely separate and individual" or "I am everything, I am a piece of Life, I am creation and creator"...

Of course as a Human I can only perceive and understand and experience this as a Human, I can relate and empathize with other forms of life, but in my estimation Humans Suffer the most since we have the most capability Mentally and Emotionally, by that I mean our possibility in both areas are higher than other life forms, i think in their case when the baby cub or deer gets eaten by the larger predatory animal they don't suffer it, they feel pain but the suffering is not near what we has Humans have to deal with..

Yes, Human existence since day one has been more about Suffering, War, Strife, Loss, and such than anything else, that is the point of Spirituality and what it is here for, for us to realize we can rise about these things, work together as one unit as well as individuals and be more harmonious with each other and life itself, Suffering in this case will stop all of that, Suffering will not allow any of that to happen since most ppl get stuck in it with no way out, Peace and Bliss on the other hand are the way out, the stable foundation upon which one can stand upon and go further in Life than they thought they could...

Just look at Leo's latest video, I watched some of it, he mentioned again that during his break he went thru allot of suffering, and it shows in this latest video where he talks about his mistakes and taking ppl for granted and so forth, he has recently mentioned his focus is on "Understanding Consciousness", I think that if he focused more on creating a stable base of finding Peace and Bliss first, this would be more productive, yes I can realize I made some mistakes and do so Blissfully rather than suffering it and having to take a year off to process it..,he seems now to be in a place of not really knowing what to do imo...

Edited May 27, 2024 by Ishanga

[Javfly33]

Interesting subject suffering, and one a the core of Life. All of my drive is to end suffering, yet if i look at the most intense moments of suffering of my Life those were crucial in order to move me and progress to more evolved ways of Being.

You could say that suffering is a measurement tool to tell you you are not in an envolved state of consciousness as a human, and the suffering moves you like no other thing. 

For example, habits like drinking alcohol, using drugs in a habitual way, cheap entertainment, etc... Are ways of the ego to block suffering, to not allow the movement to happen .

Ultimately suffering is your being in an state of distortion with reality. Reality wants to move towards alignment and symmetry, therefore Reality suffers the inbalance.

For example, a toxic envious incel suffers deeply if his dream girl goes to have sex with the mature older guy. The incel is suffering the fact that is living Life on a distorted way, he feels itself special, he judges women, etc... therefore that distortion from Truth and symetry with reality, is payed in form of suffering.

If the incel wants to stop suffering he Will have to evolve into more aligned ways of existing, he Will have to burn itself, inmolate his whole identity, because as much as he loves his identity (is his ego), the suffering Drive is much stronger, ultimately All beings surrender to Evolution, no Matter the cost. Because suffering is very serious. No one can avoid It.

No one can look the other way, suffering moves the shit out of you like no other thing.

Edited May 27, 2024 by Javfly33

[Ishanga]

@Javfly33 I think again we have to make a distinction between Pain and Suffering, Pain is needed in life, mostly on the physical end of things, without physical pain most would destroy their bodies before 30 for the sake of fashion, its good for our survival in the beginning of life, mental pain is good is small ways it brings awareness of the different thought patterns that can come up..But Suffering is totally from the Mind, its reliving the pain over and over again, that is compulsiveness not Consciousness..

We can have a society without all this Suffering in so many ways going on, we will never eliminate Pain and we shouldn't but there is a difference btwn the two...