Why do I want to use high dosage of Pychedelics all the time, how can I move on?

[LambdaDelta]

This is so very relatable. I've fallen into this deep trap of spiritual bypassing via psychedelics myself. It's still ongoing in a way, but I finally get the message. Not sure what your situation is like, but I'm at a point where I have to take amounts that'd likely send a regular person to a psych ward just for a mild trip. It's basically a waste of substance, and as others have pointed out, it will definitely take a toll both physically and mentally, even if subtly. Perhaps you too will need to feel the desperation of not being able to access those states no matter the dose to truly understand. That's what it took for me. Now I'm slowly but surely learning to appreciate the wonders of everyday mundane life, immersing myself in meditation, reading, sports... A whole new dimension to reality has opened up, no psychedelics required. And that's what it's all about - diversity. Crazy, but even those divine realms get boring if you visit too much.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck on your journey. Just remember that all experience, whatever it may be, is essential for growth.

[Oppositionless]

Maybe you need a really bad trip to snap you out of it. 
 

Then again, hundreds a bad cannabis trips didn't snap me out of it, going to rehab did

Edited May 22 by Oppositionless

[BlessedLion]

9 hours ago, James123 said:

I stayed in darkness and silence for months. I feel love during the day more than most of spiritual people but not as much as Pychedelic trips or Rumi. 

Dark room retreats are as potent as psychedelics. I’ve had straight up Ayahuasca trips in the darkness and it releases 5 MEO DMT after 10 days

[BlessedLion]

9 hours ago, mmKay said:

@BlessedLion if you don't see the problem then you don't understand the basics of being alive. Imagine if you're could lie in your bed permanently hooked on  heroine high without drug side effects. It feels good, cool, but the very basics of life requiere work. And if you want a good life, blissing out is  a counter productive temptation 

It turned me into an animal in the sense that I felt such a deep sense of confusion and lack of ground, combined with the despiteful attitude towards " thinking" from eastern spirituallity, that I barely thought about anything and just reacted to my environment and emotions, almost like a chimp. The good life requires planning, strategizing, long term thinking, willpower, avoiding traps, etc

I see what you’re saying but I also think it’s a balance. There is a time to bliss out and if you have that naturally I would see that as grace. 
 

Then after blissing out your more healed and ready to plan for kicking ass in those other aspects of life. 
 

It’s like basking in the fact that it’s a game, then playing the game. Blissing out is not the enemy 

[BlessedLion]

8 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

It is possible to reach those states ''sober". However, when you reach those states you lose motivation to do Earthly things. 

Your physiological motivation system is wired in such a way that it tricks you into going out in the world to get the happiness you seek. 

Once you realize that happiness is always within you, you have no desire to go out into the world.  

Exactly. Again, what’s the problem? You can still do stuff in the world but your not deluded into thinking it will make you happy. It’s like you’re playing a game 

[BlessedLion]

7 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

I just love the vision and beauty of my life purpose, which requires an audacity that only a highly ambitious person dares to have.

What’s your life purpose? Sounds dope 

[BlessedLion]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Because meditation and yoga cannot do what psychedelics can do.

But I have always been for the fundamentals of hard work.

So what’s your take? Use psychedelics for awakening then put them away? Or only use them once in a while?

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

So what’s your take? Use psychedelics for awakening then put them away? Or only use them once in a while?

It just depends on how you are using them and what you can handle.

[OBEler]

3 hours ago, LambdaDelta said:

This is so very relatable. I've fallen into this deep trap of spiritual bypassing via psychedelics myself. It's still ongoing in a way, but I finally get the message. Not sure what your situation is like, but I'm at a point where I have to take amounts that'd likely send a regular person to a psych ward just for a mild trip. It's basically a waste of substance, and as others have pointed out, it will definitely take a toll both physically and mentally, even if subtly. Perhaps you too will need to feel the desperation of not being able to access those states no matter the dose to truly understand. That's what it took for me. Now I'm slowly but surely learning to appreciate the wonders of everyday mundane life, immersing myself in meditation, reading, sports... A whole new dimension to reality has opened up, no psychedelics required. And that's what it's all about - diversity. Crazy, but even those divine realms get boring if you visit too much.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck on your journey. Just remember that all experience, whatever it may be, is essential for growth.

How can that be that you need to use high amounts of psychedelics just to get a mild trip? Can you elaborate? Why couldn't you access any higher states anymore? Do u use 5 meos?

Normally people with opiad-addiction have this problem. Or people who trip every day. But once you make a break your tolerance is resetted.

[LambdaDelta]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

How can that be that you need to use high amounts of psychedelics just to get a mild trip? Can you elaborate? Why couldn't you access any higher states anymore? Do u use 5 meos?

Normally people with opiad-addiction have this problem. Or people who trip every day. But once you make a break your tolerance is resetted.

'Tis a very long and personal story, but I'll try to cut it short for various reasons.

I've a naturally high psychedelic tolerance, which I probably screwed even further. Typically for any given substance on PsychonautWiki the 'heavy' dosage range and beyond is where the good stuff's at.

The 5-MeOs plain don't work, couldn't tell you why. Tried snorting, vaping, and boofing 'em, to no avail. Well, I guess 50mg of plugged 5-MeO-MALT did produce a slightly erotic sensation once. No dice with 5-MeO-DMT or 5-MeO-MiPT. 

Same story with NN-DMT and DPT. The one time I had a very profound trip with DMT was 400mg + 200mg harmala, which nearly physically killed me, probably due to tyramines or whatever, but I like to frame it as the price of admission

 Anyway, that's that. Naturally it's all high quality lab-grade stuff, so the issue of purity is out of the picture.

The wake up call was almost back-to-back experiences, first 2250ug LSD-25, then 700mg Mescaline with 100mg DMXE had barely managed to make a shift in my consciousness. 

It's been going on for some time, though I couldn't tell you exactly how long. As you may have noticed it's all rather incoherent, cause my perception of time has been altered, I've spent literal thousands of years trapped in some dimensions. Somehow I'm still functioning really well. I don't want to make any excuses, it was foolish, but at the same time I've no regrets either, it's all part of the path. Like I said I'm now cutting back on the stuff, reorienting myself towards more 'traditional' spiritual practices, which's going great. Surely my tolerance will be restored to a degree, over time. 

[James123]

6 hours ago, Bandman said:

When I take 1.5g shrooms i already feel like I'm orbiting earth and if I would take more I would be shot into space. What are your trips like?

I go to before big bang. Lol. It takes sometimes 15-20 hours, specially when I consume 10 gr with lemon take. 

[James123]

3 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

Dark room retreats are as potent as psychedelics. I’ve had straight up Ayahuasca trips in the darkness and it releases 5 MEO DMT after 10 days

I know, I am not saying that I am not feeling love, I am in love. However, in Pychedelic state it burns the shit out of me. 

 

4 hours ago, Oppositionless said:

Maybe you need a really bad trip to snap you out of it. 
 

Then again, hundreds a bad cannabis trips didn't snap me out of it, going to rehab did

I had 100 bad trip, however I still love it. Lol. 

5 hours ago, LambdaDelta said:

This is so very relatable. I've fallen into this deep trap of spiritual bypassing via psychedelics myself. It's still ongoing in a way, but I finally get the message. Not sure what your situation is like, but I'm at a point where I have to take amounts that'd likely send a regular person to a psych ward just for a mild trip. It's basically a waste of substance, and as others have pointed out, it will definitely take a toll both physically and mentally, even if subtly. Perhaps you too will need to feel the desperation of not being able to access those states no matter the dose to truly understand. That's what it took for me. Now I'm slowly but surely learning to appreciate the wonders of everyday mundane life, immersing myself in meditation, reading, sports... A whole new dimension to reality has opened up, no psychedelics required. And that's what it's all about - diversity. Crazy, but even those divine realms get boring if you visit too much.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck on your journey. Just remember that all experience, whatever it may be, is essential for growth.

Thank you for the explanation. However, I am addicted to nothingness and love. Those feels amazing, there is no such experience beyond that. 

[Javfly33]

Psychedelics are over rated, as is literally any drug. 

The bliss and Power I can get with Yoga goes beyond any chemical state produced by any substance, and ive tried from Shrooms, to 5=MeO to Heroin. Nothing touches what you can generate within, nothing. 

In fact everything that you know of culture, not just drugs, but people, sex, relationships, etc...is actually literally crap compared to the states I touch doing Yoga. 

And im a normal dude, im not a yogui of the himalayas, i just spent a certain devotion and intensity to the process for a couple of years. When you give Yourself totally things happen. As always I dont 

There is a reason why i am sober and IS not because of sel control, is because i can take psychedelics, mdma, oxy, heroin, when i want and Still is CRAP compared to what i touch on my own if i truly give myself to the process. 

You give Yourself so much your body dissolves in the Infinite. Completely sober. What drugs does that i ask?

See if you have to take a drug, what you are saying you are not able to throw Yourself fully sober. You dont want to surrender. You have to take something to force you to surrender!!! Notice the trick.

But humans do what humans do. Keep believing in imaginary limits. What do i know right? Just been saying the same thing for the past 2 years in this forum but people are too invested in limiting themselves. 

 

 

[Javfly33]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's ultimately not different from a heroin addiction. You want to live in a constant extremely positive state, and that ends up ruining your natural reward system and sober life.

Sober life can never feel as good as a heroin high. At least not without decades of development.

 

That is false and you dont understand what Heroin is. Heroin is an opiate and downer. You can not say Life Will never feel as good because heroin as similar opiate drugs numb and block feeling. They bring down Life, not Up. This is not bliss this is intoxication.

Definetely the ectasy and bliss ive touched on my own with Yoga shits on heroin (again, heroin does not provide ectasy or bliss, is an opiate/downer) or any other drug for that Matter. Also in your psychedelics too, altough you guys never ever believe this because you guys think love and certain euphoric states is the peak of human chemical possibilities. Not at all, at this point i find the psychedelic peak crap also. 

 

Edited May 22 by Javfly33

[Water by the River]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Many, many ways.

The constant use of psychedelics will make you lose touch with reality, make you ungrounded, make you weak and avoidant of hard work, ruin your motivation for business and personal development, make you irresponsible, leads to spiritual bypassing, will ruin your physical health, will cause physical injury, and eventually suicide or death.

As I said in my traps video, unsustainable lifestyles are a trap. You cannot keep being constantly intoxicated. This will absolutely destroy your life. Stop bullshitting yourselves about this.

Just because I speak highly of psychedelics does not mean I condone such abuse of them. Many of you guys will ruin your lives if you don't wise up and get back to the fundamentals of hard work.

Well, I am happy you survived your episode(s) last year (in doing a few hundred trips over a year or so if I remember your statements on that correctly, but I am not sure. But at least a lot of trips...), and now are write something like this.

That will create better/more sustainable Karma for readers/author for sure. Not everbody is a tough enough cookie to survive a few hundred trips (especially in a short time-span), at least without totally wrecking his/her life.

 

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The constant use of psychedelics will make you lose touch with reality, make you ungrounded, make you weak and avoidant of hard work, ruin your motivation for business and personal development, make you irresponsible, leads to spiritual bypassing, will ruin your physical health, will cause physical injury, and eventually suicide or death.

 

Lets skip the question of how you learned that. Or which of the crocodiles mentioned smiled back hungry.

 

And the age-old question of state vs. stage, transformation vs.peak experience.

https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=transformation&author=Water by the River

For example:

On 18.3.2023 at 4:50 PM, Water by the River said:

 

"Ken Wilber: The downside comes with people that only use psychedelics or drugs and I found that over the years they just become mean.

It's somehow just kind of closes them down it's like you keep doing it and you keep doing it you keep doing it it doesn't quite cause the transformation.

It can cause a peak experience but generally not a transformative experience and some people like David Deida will say that in order for altered changes of state to contribute to transformation a permanent transformation it has to be basically endogenous and not a exogenous it has to be has your own source

People who do that (Psychedelics) the people that do use both (Meditation and Psychedelics) and use it as a sacrament i think an enormous bit out of it."

As always: Consider the different perspectives and draw your own conclusions.

PS: Lot of Leos work contains extraordinary metaphysical explanations that are in my perspective absolutely marvelous. I wish him permanent happiness, liberation and the bliss of constantly resting in his True Being, that will then radiate as love and compassion.

or

On 31.5.2023 at 10:28 PM, Water by the River said:

The states that can be achieved by meditation and energetic techniques are real and very powerful with enough practice. Most people get quite serious when they see that:

The awakened states of for example infinite Nonduality, or Real Impersonal No-Self - Impersonal Infinite Consciousness Suchness, do have their impacts on the brainwaves, and for sure for the body-own Endo-Huasca-System producing a cocktail of body-endogenous Psychedelics:

https://dmtquest.org/endohuasca-magic/

How else to explain the powerful infinite nondual awakened states achieveable by Psychedelics can be had with meditation and energetic practices, and which are so similiar to the Psychedelic experiences? 

On 31.5.2023 at 9:13 PM, Javfly33 said:

It's even better, because it doesn't have any of the residual confusion and anxiety of the ego. 

Yes. Because it is a stage that has been earned by transformation and transcendence. States that have become permanent as stages. Going from states, to plateaus, to very permanent stages. And the remaining self doing these practices gets more and more refined. Pure. Impersonal. Empty. Transcendal. 

Not the remains of a separate ego/self, switched on and off by psychedelics, but never fully gone. The remains hindering the Full Realization in daily life, and are also projected on Infinite Consciousness during the trip, disfiguring its pure empty impersonal nature. So some lense always remain that prevent the final deep shift of Full Enlightenment.

...

Ken Wilber: "The downside comes with people that only use psychedelics or drugs. And I found that over the years they just become mean it's somehow I just kind of closes them down.

Its  like you keep doing it and you keep doing it you keep doing and it doesn't quite cause the transformation. It can cause a peak experience but generally not a transformative experience and some people like David Deida will say that in order for altered changes of state to contribute to transformationpermit transformation it has to be basically endogenous not exogenous.

It has to be has your own source.

The people that do use both [psychedelics and meditation] and use it as a sacrament I think an enormous bit out of it. "

Anybody ever wondered why that is? That Spirit/Infinite Reality prevents the crossing over through the Gateless Gate to Full Enlightenment if the soul is not purified enough, the separate-self/ego-illusion emptied out and transcended completely, all deaths died, all illusions gone? Maybe it is not a bug, but a deep deep feature? If we admit Infinite Intelligence to Infinite Reality, maybe Infinite Reality demands and requires giving up and transcending certain last subtle lenses also, letting the Illusion of separation fully die? And a high degree of compassion and some kind of Boddhisattva-vow? Because Infinite Reality itself IS Love? A fundamental archetype of manifestation, of essence? Sounds familiar and resonates?

This combination of Transcendence and love is a deep structure of all spiritual systems of all ages.

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj — 'Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows.'

Water by the River

 

Your favourite (although imaginary) non-100% Buddhist rodent selling water by the River to (imaginary) "others" and wondering which will be the (imaginary) crocodile  to cause his final retirement from the water-selling-job for good.

Luckily, the crocodiles are also all made out of water, since there is only water.

by

the River.

 

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Not everbody is a tough enough cookie to survive a few hundred trips (especially in a short time-span), at least without totally wrecking his/her life.

That is because it's too much consciousness for a human rodent to handle.

Edited May 22 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

(again, heroin does not provide ectasy or bliss, is an opiate/downer)

You could replace heroin with meth, makes no difference to the higher point.

[James123]

39 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Psychedelics are over rated, as is literally any drug. 

The bliss and Power I can get with Yoga goes beyond any chemical state produced by any substance, and ive tried from Shrooms, to 5=MeO to Heroin. Nothing touches what you can generate within, nothing. 

In fact everything that you know of culture, not just drugs, but people, sex, relationships, etc...is actually literally crap compared to the states I touch doing Yoga. 

And im a normal dude, im not a yogui of the himalayas, i just spent a certain devotion and intensity to the process for a couple of years. When you give Yourself totally things happen. As always I dont 

There is a reason why i am sober and IS not because of sel control, is because i can take psychedelics, mdma, oxy, heroin, when i want and Still is CRAP compared to what i touch on my own if i truly give myself to the process. 

You give Yourself so much your body dissolves in the Infinite. Completely sober. What drugs does that i ask?

See if you have to take a drug, what you are saying you are not able to throw Yourself fully sober. You dont want to surrender. You have to take something to force you to surrender!!! Notice the trick.

But humans do what humans do. Keep believing in imaginary limits. What do i know right? Just been saying the same thing for the past 2 years in this forum but people are too invested in limiting themselves. 

 

 

I am just addicted to invite love and nothingness feeling. That's all. I can overcome. However, they are the best rides in the wonderland. 

[James123]

24 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Well, I am happy you survived your episode(s) last year (in doing a few hundred trips over a year or so if I remember your statements on that correctly, but I am not sure. But at least a lot of trips...), and now are write something like this.

That will create better/more sustainable Karma for readers/author for sure. Not everbody is a tough enough cookie to survive a few hundred trips (especially in a short time-span), at least without totally wrecking his/her life.

 

Lets skip the question of how you learned that. Or which of the crocodiles mentioned smiled back hungry.

 

And the age-old question of state vs. stage, transformation vs.peak experience.

https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=transformation&author=Water by the River

For example:

or

 

Your favourite (although imaginary) non-100% Buddhist rodent selling water by the River to (imaginary) "others" and wondering which will be the (imaginary) crocodile  to cause his final retirement from the water-selling-job for good.

Luckily, the crocodiles are also all made out of water, since there is only water.

by

the River.

 

Thank you for your explanation. However, my life is going actually pretty good. I can function under psychedelics too. Even better. 

[Water by the River]

16 minutes ago, James123 said:

I can function under *putintheblank* too. Even better. 

Where did I hear that before?