Leo you misunderstand Hitler completely

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't forget what happened after 9/11. Most people were cowed into a stupid anti-Islamic, pro-American backlash, left and right alike.

Nothing surprising here. As expected.

The Zionists are at it as we speak. Busy like a kicked nest of hornets.

   I see, so you're real argument here is not that Nazism=conservative alt right, but Nazism=nationalism and ethnic/religious nationalism? Especially considering that after 9/11, most people were cowed to anti Islamic, pro American backlash LEFT and RIGHT, therefore it's not necessarily that Nazism is only a right wing conservative thing, but a Nationalist thing?

   So Zionism=Nazism?

   

[Schizophonia]

2 hours ago, OBEler said:

 

Women have their moral, value, norms and rules they follow. Until they meet a giga chad and women will willingly throw all these away for him and adapt to his frame and ideology. It's not rational, it's not logical. Pure biology.

 

No, it's very rational.
Breeding with someone who has superior genes is more important than political views, lol.

[Schizophonia]

Does an American here has an opinion on David Duke?

He seems like a relatively healthy and measured person despite his time in the KKK, but at the same time I just saw a well known member of the French "far-right" talking about him out of nowhere calling him "completely insane".

Idk.

 

 

Edited March 26 by Schizophonia

[OBEler]

48 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@OBEler

   Wait, historically 80% of workers in factories during WW2 are Jewish, and about 40% of them were both killed off or expelled during the holocaust. How is that under 1% of Germans during Nazi Germany? Also what I mean with women in that time is when most Nazis wat all women to be housewives only. In fact when Hitler and his Nazi party learned that women were part of the soviet army they were horrified and thought the Russians barbaric.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiEyLfV8JKFAxX8-gIHHVFhBIcQFnoECA4QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fencyclopedia.ushmm.org%2Fcontent%2Fen%2Farticle%2Fgermany-jewish-population-in-1933&usg=AOvVaw22UZMwoGOY0FWQctTXadGa&opi=89978449

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjphvz48JKFAxVIxQIHHfmYAsIQFnoECBkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.shu.ac.uk%2Fresearch%2Fin-action%2Fprojects%2Fbeing-black-in-nazi-germany&usg=AOvVaw2hxPlp8TUb9x3nbWt36Koh&opi=89978449

@Schizophonia @Danioover9000please do the math. There were 500.000 Jews living in Germany when Hitler came to power. That's under 1% of german population. The factory workers are of course Jews from occupied countrys by the Nazis and not germans /living in Germany. I claimed that  most German population were save unter Hitler even if they don't take part in Nazi party. No one was putting a gun to someone's head if they didn't become  a full Nazi member. That's bullshit. Of course there was group pressure and probably other social constrictions but not as hard as people think.

And I still don't understand what are the security issues for women ? They were highly respected, maybe for the first time. until today we celebrate the so called "mother day ", which Hitler invented.

House wives were respected and working in the household is a save environment so what exactly are you talking about?

Edited March 26 by OBEler

[Schizophonia]

8 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Schizophonia @Danioover9000please do the math. There were 500.000 Jews living in Germany when Hitler came to power. That's under 1% of german population. The factory workers are of course Jews from occupied countrys by the Nazis and not germans /living in Germany. I claimed that  most German population were save unter Hitler even if they don't take part in Nazi party. No one was putting a gun to someone's head if they didn't become  a full Nazi member. That's bullshit. Of course there was group pressure and probably other social constrictions but not as hard as people think.

And I still don't understand what are the security issues for women ? They were highly respected, maybe for the first time. until today we celebrate the so called "mother day ", which Hitler invented.

House wives were respected and working in the household is a save environment so what exactly are you talking about?

 

Why notify me?
You must have made a mistake.

[mmKay]

2 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura Germans became Nazis not because Nazis would put a gun on their head. There was nothing to fear if you don't participate in the Nazi party. Just maybe some obstacles in career but nothing serious. 

That is just factually incorrect... Where did you pull this information from? If you opposed the Nazi ideology you would get persecuted, discriminated , incarcerated, forced to emigrate or even sent to concentration camps. What makes you think Hitler's regime would go easy on you for clearly not being by his side?

[OBEler]

@Schizophonia sorry there is a bug on mobile version I cannot delete references once I tip on someone.

 

@mmKay  please read more carefully what I wrote. I wrote that there was nothing to fear if you don't participate in the Nazi party. So if you are not a member of the party and just live your life, fine. That's what I meant by that. But If you do something official against the Nazi regime of course you would be in danger. 

You cannot imply out of my argument that people can do whatever they want. Of course not! Why do I even need to explain that to you? In no country in the world you can behave like you want and have nothing to fear.

 

Edited March 26 by OBEler

[mmKay]

16 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Schizophonia sorry there is a bug on mobile version I cannot delete references once I tip on someone.

 

@mmKay  please read more carefully what I wrote. I wrote that there was nothing to fear if you don't participate in the Nazi party. So if you are not a member of the party and just live your life, fine. But If you do something official against the Nazi regime of course you would be in danger. 

 

no, the Gestapo's surveillance meant that even if you didn't actively oppose the regime could still be perceived as threats, so being " apolitical " was dangerous. It's one of the most impacting aspects of Nazi movies imo. Not participating = oposing

Edited March 26 by mmKay

[OBEler]

@mmKay 

56 minutes ago, mmKay said:

no, the Gestapo's surveillance meant that even if you didn't actively oppose the regime could still be perceived as threats, so being " apolitical " was dangerous. It's one of the most impacting aspects of Nazi movies imo. Not participating = oposing

Ok that is a valid point. I thought if you are German and just live your life, contributing to Germany, you are ok. But if you don't participate at all in any activity there could be some serious issues with gestapo. It's not like North Korea but at the end of the war it got more and more dangerous.

Regarding to this topic I remember a personal story: My great grandfather lead a prisoner of war camp and got kicked out of his position because Nazis thought he would threat these prisoners too nice. He was traumatized and never recovered from this violation of his honor. He once begged my grandfather to send him a gun to shoot himself after he knew Germany will lose the war. He finally died at the end of war in a psychward, it was official suicide (but who knows). So it can go in the wrong direction if you really don't participate. You will not be shot immediately but circumstances like destroyig your career can lead to depression and suicide.

It was known that Hitler sent unliked generals personally  a handgun as a signal that they had the last chance to shoot themselves so they can at least die in honor. Otherwise the gestapo will finish the job. But these generals really did something wrong. There was always a serious issue. Just having a different opinion than Hitler on military issues was not dangerous.

Edited March 26 by OBEler

[Danioover9000]

@mmKay

1 hour ago, mmKay said:

That is just factually incorrect... Where did you pull this information from? If you opposed the Nazi ideology you would get persecuted, discriminated , incarcerated, forced to emigrate or even sent to concentration camps. What makes you think Hitler's regime would go easy on you for clearly not being by his side?

   He pulled that information from @Leo Gura's hypothetical example of a Nazi putting a gun to your head.

[Danioover9000]

@Schizophonia

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

 

Why notify me?
You must have made a mistake.

   Guilty by association.😔

[Danioover9000]

@OBEler

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

@Schizophonia @Danioover9000please do the math. There were 500.000 Jews living in Germany when Hitler came to power. That's under 1% of german population. The factory workers are of course Jews from occupied countrys by the Nazis and not germans /living in Germany. I claimed that  most German population were save unter Hitler even if they don't take part in Nazi party. No one was putting a gun to someone's head if they didn't become  a full Nazi member. That's bullshit. Of course there was group pressure and probably other social constrictions but not as hard as people think.

And I still don't understand what are the security issues for women ? They were highly respected, maybe for the first time. until today we celebrate the so called "mother day ", which Hitler invented.

House wives were respected and working in the household is a save environment so what exactly are you talking about?

   Housewives were respected and working in the household, okay, and probably nurses, teachers, waitresses, bartenders, et cetera. But what about jobs were majority were male and women wanted to do those jobs related to S.T.E.M, military, construction, et cetera? What about single women at that time?

   Hitler invented mother's day???

   Okay, can you give me sources about the German population during Hitler's reign? If you say 500,000 Jews make up under 1% of Germany's population under Nazi Germany, then there's roughly a total of 50,000,000 Germans within Germany, and 500,000 are Jews? So what are the remaining 49,500,000, 99%, distributed to which demographics?

   Also while we're on the topic of population, we also have had the birthrate decline issue even here as well. Of course largely due to WW1 among other factors, the Nazis have this state sponsored breeding program here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjBmqaJkJOFAxUtV0EAHYmLDgcQFnoECBMQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fencyclopedia.ushmm.org%2Fcontent%2Fen%2Farticle%2Flebensborn-program&usg=AOvVaw0rG_lJJOBcXYWQF-XxkOLk&opi=89978449

[OBEler]

12 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@OBEler

   Housewives were respected and working in the household, okay, and probably nurses, teachers, waitresses, bartenders, et cetera. But what about jobs were majority were male and women wanted to do those jobs related to S.T.E.M, military, construction, et cetera? What about single women at that time?

   Hitler invented mother's day???

   Okay, can you give me sources about the German population during Hitler's reign? If you say 500,000 Jews make up under 1% of Germany's population under Nazi Germany, then there's roughly a total of 50,000,000 Germans within Germany, and 500,000 are Jews? So what are the remaining 49,500,000, 99%, distributed to which demographics?

   Also while we're on the topic of population, we also have had the birthrate decline issue even here as well. Of course largely due to WW1 among other factors, the Nazis have this state sponsored breeding program here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjBmqaJkJOFAxUtV0EAHYmLDgcQFnoECBMQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fencyclopedia.ushmm.org%2Fcontent%2Fen%2Farticle%2Flebensborn-program&usg=AOvVaw0rG_lJJOBcXYWQF-XxkOLk&opi=89978449

Ok the mother day existed before in america but Hitler made it in Germany as an official celebration day for the first time in Germany. 

From ChatGPT: 

Germany's population at the time was around 65 million. Minority groups included Jews, who numbered about 500,000 (less than 1% of the population), along with smaller communities of Sinti and Roma, Poles, and other ethnicities.

Other minorities (Poles, Sinti and Roma, Afro-Germans, and other smaller ethnic groups): Given that the Jewish community was the most significant minority group numerically, the other groups collectively would constitute a small percentage of the population, likely in the range of 4% to 6%, considering the ethnic German majority accounted for 93% to 95% of the population.

 

"But what about jobs were majority were male and women wanted to do those jobs related to S.T.E.M, military, construction, et cetera? What about single women at that time?"

war led to women taking on a broader range of jobs, including those traditionally held by men. There was even a woman general. But outside of war they could just do jobs for women.

Edited March 27 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@mmKay

   He pulled that information from @Leo Gura's hypothetical example of a Nazi putting a gun to your head.

Sigh...

Figuratively, not literally.

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura yeah of course figuratively!

But from what I know about civil normal Germans who were not real Nazis, pressure was not a big issue. Probably was the pressure as big as in China right now or less for accepting the government. So nothing really threatening you can live a normal life just follow some rules if you are not accepting the ideology of Nazis/Nazi regime. Only 5 million party members out of 70 million existed 1939. f you are not a party member you can still have a normal life. So the figuratively pressure Leo describes is not as strong as some Hollywood movies suggest. This does not include the last months of Germany. There went everything crazy. 

If you don't want to do some dirty tasks for the Nazis you are free to cancel, no one will punish you, you just loose some respect maybe. They had enough people in the genocide who participated willingly. Many thought probably If you are not doing it, some other comrate needs to do it for you. 

Edited March 27 by OBEler

[mmKay]

@OBEler there is overwhelming hystorical evidence of how the corrupt nazi regime influenced all aspects of personal life. And even without that evidence you can simply understand how if corrupt people are in power , rules and morality fly out the window

"Lead a normal life and feel free to cancel if you don't want to do some dirty tasks"? Do you understand  what politely declining a task from that corrupt regime means for your family , business and possessions?

Why do you have so much faith in the good will of the members of a corrupt system not to abuse their power?

Not actively participating, non compliance or God forbid, opposition , in an authoritarian corrupt regime means blackmail, torture , imprisoned or worse, of you and your loved ones.

 

A corrupt regime uses propaganda, coercion and absolutely whatever dirty means to maintain "their order" and power

What are you defending here? That Nazism was bad but not that bad? I don't understand 

If you have an interest perspective I'm open to hear it but this is getting more cringe by the hour, nothing personal. I'm sure you're have good takes on different topics 

Edited March 27 by mmKay

[OBEler]

@mmKay where did I say Nazis were not corrupt? Of course they were.

"Lead a normal life and feel free to cancel if you don't want to do some dirty tasks"? Do you understand  what politely declining a task from that corrupt regime means for your family , business and possessions?"

I probably do more understand than you do if you think you will be immediately deported. I even have personal evidence, a family member, he was in the SS, refused to work at a concentration camp because it was traumatic for him to do this dirty job. So what happened? Nothing really. No punishment at all. he took another job which had nothing to do with killing people. He lived a good life until he died in the age of 80.

 

Interesting that I need to position myself if I see Nazis as good or bad. Such a black and white view I don't have. I am only interested in what was true. And as reality is complex , so is the behavior of Nazis. At the end they were human beings, or at least partly humans. So there is a lot of ambiguity in my posts here because if you want to hear the truth and not the repeated propaganda story things get complex and sometimes paradox.

But if you really want a position from me, fine : I am against the image of Nazi Germany created by Hollywood war movies (inglorious bastards etc) and call of duty games. It's a distorted view of how it really was and many of you are brainwashed by this as I can also see in this thread. Most Nazis were not sadistic, narcistic psychos but total normal people like me and you who had probably their best times in their lifes in Nazi Germany until they lost the war. 

People today think that Germans were either total stupid or forced to participate in Hitler regime. But the truth is most Germans were willfully participating in it and glorified the Hitler regime. Hitler raised to country out of misery. And not only conservatives were Nazis, from all kind of classes. It was a unified country and there was not so much pressure needed to create this like people here think (no North Korea style). 

Edited March 27 by OBEler

[mmKay]

8 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@mmKay I have even have personal evidence, a family member, he was in the SS, refused to work at a concentration camp because it was traumatic for him to do this dirty job. So what happened? Nothing really. he took another job which had nothing to do with killing people. He lived a good life until he died in the age of 80.

That's the exception, not the rule, and the consequences of not publicly praising the regime and eagerly participating can be that immediate but also more of an insidious negative ripple effect on your life and your loved ones.

Yes, the majority of people just wants a quiet peaceful life and will participate the bare minimum not to be seen in a bad light. 

Yes, you can say people willingly participated in the regime , if the negative effects are potentially so bad , and you are rewarded so good for fitting in. Sideing with power has an obvious appeal .

As a side note, to this day I hear old people here in Spain saying " my life was better with Franco". It's a pretty common saying here , and they give real life tangible examples of how their life was better. And it's true. If you side with power you get rewarded.

It's not apples to apples though.

[OBEler]

@mmKay You see that's all I say. And yeah it's not all apples to apples though.

[Danioover9000]

@OBEler

59 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@mmKay You see that's all I say. And yeah it's not all apples to apples though.

   Apparently Destiny got some good political takes and good conversationalist.....

 

 

   Rap Elvis: If I tell a lie, stop me.