Was there a world when you were 4 years old?

[Javfly33]

When i was 4 years old or less i remember the utter Intense Joy and bliss of waking Up early to go open Christmas presents

I can recall the vibrancy of my perception, It was sheer intensity. It was being truly Alive.

Then i have remembered. There was NO self at all at that moment.

There was not a world, i didnt had parents, i was not born, i didnt had a body, there was NOTHING at that moment. Because at 4 years old "I" did not exist. At that time Consciousness was Infinite and Indiscriminate. Free from EVERY concept. Because there weren't any.

Then the illusion got constructed.

With beliefs and concepts i started to tell myself that there is a body, other bodies, a world, time, death, Life, parents, etc. EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING was constructed by the ego.

Enlightment is remembering complete illusion is created by Thoughts/beliefs/ideas. 

 

[Bazooka Jesus]

15 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

At that time Consciousness was Infinite and Indiscriminate. Free from EVERY concept. Because there weren't any.

What about the concept of Christmas?

How can there be the intense joy and excitement of opening Christmas presents if there is no notion of Christmas and presents, let alone of self, world and parents? Was there also intense joy when you fell of you bicycle and got a bloody nose, or when some other kid in kindergarten took away your lollipop?

No offense, but that OP sounds like a fantasy story. No four year old that I have ever met was free of concepts and ego, and I definitely wasn't free of it at that age. Perhaps my ego was somewhat lighter and less burdened with a complex life story back then, but it was definitely there.

[Javfly33]

4 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

What about the concept of Christmas?

How can there be the intense joy and excitement of opening Christmas presents if there is no notion of Christmas and presents, let alone of self, world and parents? Was there also intense joy when you fell of you bicycle and got a bloody nose, or when some other kid in kindergarten took away your lollipop?

No offense, but that OP sounds like a fantasy story. No four year old that I have ever met was free of concepts and ego, and I definitely wasn't free of it at that age. Perhaps my ego was somewhat lighter and less burdened with a complex life story back then, but it was definitely there.

@Bazooka Jesus Yes, because there is an intelligence/mind that register events. An animal can also respond to situations, but that doesn´t mean there is an ego or an illusion there.

For kids is the same. Remember right. When you were very little Consciousness was not imagining it was in the body, it was 'all over the place', infinitely expanded and Perception was appearing to nobody.

At 4 years old you were absolutely Dead. Nothing existed. Then you created illusion and World and Duality was created.

 

[Bazooka Jesus]

25 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

At 4 years old you were absolutely Dead. Nothing existed. Then you created illusion and World and Duality was created.

Sorry, but at four years old I (just like every other normal functioning four year old kid) absolutlely had a concept of "my body", along with that of a personal self, world, other people and everything else. And I certainly wasn't "dead" back then... quite the contrary!

Btw, here's an easy test to see if a four year old kid does or doesn't have a concept of personal self: Take something away from them that they think is "theirs" (like a toy) and see what happens. I am willing to bet all of the money I own - which admittedly isn't much, lol - that in ten out of ten cases, the result will be a massive temper tantrum. (I have two nieces, so I've seen this many times in action, heh.)

And that thing about animals not having any sort of ego is pure unbased conjecture. No human knows what is going on inside an animals head, so don't be so rash to make assumptions about things that are completely outside of your realm of personal experience.

[Consept]

4 year olds definitely have beliefs and concepts and an ego. Ego apparently starts to develop around 2, its not as concrete as an older person's might be but it is there. 

What OP is saying could be true for a new born or very young baby, maybe up until 1 years old. There is some research I heard where if the baby is with other babies and one starts crying, the others cry as they can't differentiate themselves from the other. Also as they don't have language or experience of anything they can't build up concepts or put ideas together. At 4 you would have at least some language and be have a rudimentary understanding of the world. 

 

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Sorry, but at four years old I (just like every other normal functioning four year old kid) absolutlely had a concept of "my body", along with that of a personal self, world, other people and everything else. And I certainly wasn't "dead" back then... quite the contrary!

Btw, here's an easy test to see if a four year old kid does or doesn't have a concept of personal self: Take something away from them that they think is "theirs" (like a toy) and see what happens. I am willing to bet all of the money I own - which admittedly isn't much, lol - that in ten out of ten cases, the result will be a massive temper tantrum. (I have two nieces, so I've seen this many times in action, heh.)

And that thing about animals not having any sort of ego is pure unbased conjecture. No human knows what is going on inside an animals head, so don't be so rash to make assumptions about things that are completely outside of your realm of personal experience.

a dog will also get angry with you if you take his food. 

Does that mean it has an ego ? 

Quote

I am willing to bet all of the money I own - which admittedly isn't much, lol

🤣 

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No human knows what is going on inside an animals head, so don't be so rash to make assumptions about things that are completely outside of your realm of personal experience.

No language = No world. 

[Ishanga]

I would half agree with the OP, at 4 or even at 7 or 8 I was like that at Xmas time, super hyped, couldn't sleep, was the first up and  downstairs waiting to open presents, sometime in my adulthood I wonder "Where did that person go", so its true that children to have more access to the ease of life and are generally more happy, this means there more intouch with Truth than most Adults. At my Job I'm out and about all day, I see ppl walking their dogs, and kids playing in the parks, the kids mostly all have a kick in their step, their skipping or jumping around while walking, or running like mad in the open field at a park, so this is very revealing for me and a lesson too!

For sure I had a small ego back then, which basically means I was identified with lots of things, I wanted to be SuperMan, the 6 million Dollar man, a fireman and such,,so it was there for sure, I was not free of it and if I lost someone in my family it affected me, maybe some kids do not have this happening in their lives, some kids via the karmic cycle and such probably start off further along than most other kids, but who knows eh?

Edited March 18 by Ishanga

[Bazooka Jesus]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

a dog will also get angry with you if you take his food. 

Does that mean it has an ego?

Maybe. Who knows?

And food is obviously different from something like a toy. The fight for food is directly linked to physical survival and thus to inherited survival instincts, while the notion of owning a toy is a very abstract concept. If the child had never learned and adapted the thought of "this is my toy", it wouldn't get upset about someone trying to take it away.

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

No language = No world. 

Says who?

Language is simply a tool to express mental concepts. Saying that there are no concepts where there's no language is like saying that there are no clouds where there is no rain.

Besides, it is a proven fact that some animals have indeed their own language with which they communicate. And again, what's actually going on inside their head is anybody's guess.

 

Edited March 18 by Bazooka Jesus

[r0ckyreed]

The Self and Christmas are as real as this room you are imagining right now.