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There is a difference between; "Why is there something instead of nothing ?" and "Why is there not nothing ?" The latter being the more important one. The fact something exists is irrelevant because it does. What's more intriguing is why nothingness isn't the standard. All else being equal, it is more efficient and logical for nothing (time, space, matter, energy) to exist.

@Holygrail Oh but the realization of nothingness can go deeper. You've just begun to get in touch with Emptiness and so far, your understanding is almost exclusively on an intellectual level. You still believe in "somethingness" if you're honest with yourself. Only because you have seen through a belief intellectually, doesn't mean that you feel it. But you can. You can feel yourself as nothing and the world as nothing, or both. You will lose your sense of weight. The world may appear like a dream or a hologram. It can be a bit frightening at first, but even that is only because you still think the world is supposed to be something?

thats what i thought, though i believe there's a deeper experience to be had on nothingness than my realization

@wildflower LOL metaphysical claim, his nothingness is no further then GOD. buddhism which is famous for atheism speaks about GOD and claim nothingness is beyond, dont you see the irony in that? It is atheistic and materialism in a religion form. He has no clue at all about GOD obviously. A life denying teaching is what that is.

Everything I talk about is Nothingness.

Fair. The only person in the world for me that speaks different then this, that seems to encapsulate these other teachings but transcends them is Ajahn Brahm, he talks more about nothingness then anyone else. He also is probably one of the meditation masters in the world. I wonder what your thoughts are on the way he describes it, I've timestamped it, it takes 3 minutes, he talks about different states of conciousness, ifninite conciousness, but in the end there is more beyond, I recommend the whole video:

You cant capture infinity and Reality and say oh it is this way but no that way, in the beginning NETI NETI is a great thing but one should see that even if Frank and Leo talks about differences, it is still A MIND who is doing the interpreting, like Frank, he is doing metaphysical claims all the time and he pisses at Leo for doing it too, lol it is unavoidable.. Infinity includes and transcends it all, it is impermanent/permanent, it is everything and nothing. In his stages with GOD / NOTHINGNESS / CESSATIONS etc, that is pure MIND who puts its "experiences" on top of others, making a claim that this "experience" is more important then another, YEAH for him perhaps, likewise LEO has another, i dont doubt the wokeness of any of them, they certainly are.

Yes, well I have an other example. I had never meditated or anything and had a full blown awakening, while eating. Eternity, nothingness, no self, no external world, this is a dream. I needed 6 months to "make sense of it" and what happened was I ended up saying. It was a change in perception that made me FEEL LIKE I was in a dream and FELT LIKE it was more true than anything else. The external world SEEMED like it didn't exist and SEEMED like a dream. Basically I integrated a real intense awakening into the materialist paradigm. Fortunately now I know that materiakism is just ONE paradigm, and not the best one for changes in perception/awakenings. Intuitive knowledge doesn't need paradigms I guess.

@Thought Art As far as most mindfullness teachers explain it: it's about the awareness of the absolute 0. Its recognising where everything comes from and where everything goes to. Shinzen Young said: It happens to everyone thousands of times a day, the difference is being conscious of it happening or not. Cessation, dissolution (bhanga) nothingness. It's all about that "0". I don't believe that what you mentioned (beliefs intentions etc.) play a role at all, because it happens through every culture with some people never having heard of spiritual practice, and it's a natural process. Apparently there's a correlation between no-self and age. That's why old people tend to enjoy having children in their presence because, post-egoic and pre-egoic stages are more about love than egoic people who are "serious" and "worried" all the time. Sorry I went on a tangent.

You cannot experience Absolute Nothingness! Your Ego mind can imagine Nothingness from its microscopic limited bubble of reality, but the higher Mind that you are, is consciously creating you from moment to moment, it maintains all your thoughts, ideas, images, beliefs, and emotions. It maintains all the Atoms, molecules, organs, and electromagnetic field of energy that you are. You exist beyond your limited Ego awareness. Consciousness = Thoughts in Action! Thoughts = Energy in Action Energy can never be destroyed. Once a Thought, Idea, image, belief, and Emotion is manifested, it will continue to exist in Absolute Consciousness for eternity. Just sharing a few thoughts, ideas, and beliefs!

"spacious" is a better word, as opposed to the forms appearing within it. See for yourself; "nothingness" isn't as bad as it sounds.

@Goldzilla yeah absolutely. Nothingness is not what you think nothingness is in actuality. This is nothingness, the question is just how conscious are you of what nothing is.

@Strangeloop Hahaha, I like how you shifted gears real quick from "yeah, a bunch of demons entered of demons" to "focus on material development". It's not meditation in particular which lead me to this today, or what lead me to my experience 2 days ago of focus on nothingness. What it was, was that a conversation with a friend of mine where I talked about my feelings revealed something to me I had been ignoring/denying to trying to forget. At the age of about 13, I had some crisis of faith about Islam ( the religion I grew up). I went on a rollercoaster of belief and disbelief. I would stare at the ceiling at night and be in terror, contemplating the prospect of living forever in Heaven. When in belief, I felt very mystically high and in bliss. But I eventually realised Islam was false, logically and morally, and went into a depression about it. That crisis of faith and meaning, it's remained unresolved. "It left a massive hole in me ontologically". One year ago I had a random seeing of Absolute Nothingness, but I ran away. My entire life, I've spent it distracting myself from this "hole". I've spent it distracting myself from this nihilism and nothingness, despite those things being so palpable in experience. That I exist at all! That is insanity inducing enough! Stark, raving mad. Don't you feel it too? But I denied and ignored that feeling, trying to make myself forget. The only bigger insanity than that though is the pretending I'm not insane. And so, it was the realisation that I run away from myself that induced all this, not meditation. A psychological breakdown, I have no sanity left, although I can give the appearance of it to others somehow. I think it's maybe because I simply don't wish to talk to anyone, that would be self defeating if I'm trying to reclaim all authority to myself and be an adult, and stop projecting. I'm on a journey from absolutely nowhere to no thing; life is pointless. Urinate on everything sacred. Enlightenment is a myth, everything is false. Even if it's futile, I'll keep going, because it's the same either way

There is no way of no thoughts in the present moment. You are alive because you continue thinking, even tho you want to experience nothingness that is only another focus on other things than thought. But believe me, you can't stop the thoughts processes without losing your life. You can only switch focus on breath per example and let thoughts come and go. The total dissapearance of thought is a blatant lie of society.

@ivankiss very sure. reconciling with your past may seem impossible in many cases. From the case you mentioned about the child bullied at school, to or the girl sold to a brothel, to the Congolese boy forced to torture his mother, there is a whole range of difficulties. It's not fair, why to me? nothing strengthens the ego more. trying to realize god to forget all that, it never happened ... it doesn't work! first you have to make amends no matter how difficult it is. It is necessary to understand that what is is not subject to what it should be. It comes out of nothingness, and is, without judgment. If you take away his judgment, the trauma turns into a shining jewel. It's liberation from should be, and like you said, it takes courage

There is no "you." What we really are is consciousness (nothingness), which manifests into form (reality). Reality is consciousness. You are reality.

when we dont have any mental projections laid into reality, then there isnt any concept of something and nothing, this vs that, Is that what it's meant when saying that reality is actual nothingness? I felt like i didn't exist when i made the distinction between thoughts and the present moment and everything felt like nothingness because i didnt exist as thoughts to differentiate anything into something.

So my GF has never been big on perusing enlightenment or spirituality in general, but she's always had a keen sense for it. She's been going to school and working and her time has been so preoccupied that one day she experienced nothingness. True absolute nothingness. It was a beautiful experience at first but then the next day she said she saw all of time; past present and future in a sort of "donut" shape that infinitely collapsed in on itself like a strange loop. She knows I understand what she means but she feels like she's going crazy and can't turn off seeing infinity. I've helped her a bit by explaining some of what this means, but also telling her how to ground and be present. She wants to get into meditation but it's never been a big thing for her. I have a feeling that will change soon. Leo's video on The Many Facets of Awakening has been exceptionally relevant for this. I'm very proud of her, but I also understand that this is very scary for her as well as exciting. She's been crying a lot and losing sleep because she keeps slipping into the infinite. I haven't seen her in a week and tomorrow I finally get to be with her again, but if anyone has advice or words of wisdom to help her through this rude and involuntary awakening that would be great. <3

Thank you for the detailed response. I have to say that I struggle with the possibility of the second experience (life, fullness, joy...) being deeper than the first (nothingness, void). Please, don´t take this as a stupid verbal challenge. You were the one experiencing both, and the one who knows the flavour of those insights, but in my meditative experiences everything that has a taste of life, of light, of "somethingness", like in your second trip, is always a product of an aware space where that fullness happens, and this aware void is prior to any experience. So I ask you: if you felt that the Absolute was the fullness, shouldn´t it be also present in the first experience? Again, I am asking this with respect and with the desire to know better about what you experienced. I am fascinated with 5MeO experiences. It´s just that its insights not always coincide with mine, and I want to get to the bottom of it all.

I can speak based on what I experienced with LSD and what Leo said in his "What is death?" video. What you're saying is probably the most accurate outcome of life after death. Leo says it, forum users say it, other sources say it, and LSD showed me it. It's completely lights out. No mind, no thoughts, no feelings, no attachments, no memories of life on earth, no human senses, no self. You cease to exist. One thing you're missing here though is that, with non-existence there's this state of pure bliss. Leo mentions this in the video, and it happened in my LSD trip as well. This is probably the best thing that ever happened to me, it was so peaceful that I actually wanted it to last for eternity. This is probably where the concept of heaven came from. Another thing to add is that, in a way its similar to us as humans, being asleep. But when we're sleeping, we don't really know we're asleep. We sleep on our bed, have some dreams then a couple hours later we're awake in our human body. And so, from what I experienced in my trip, you have complete awareness, awareness of nothingness. As humans we're aware that we exist as humans, but through ego-death you're aware that you exist as nothing. I wouldn't know if this lasts for eternity when we literally physically die and if we reincarnate into another living being but I would say there's nothing to fear if our memory of our current life is completely gone. Of course we don't have our current thoughts and feelings after we die, so there's no regret or wishing that we came back to life after we die lol, those thoughts don't exist anymore. Nothing is permanent. People talk about being afraid of death because they have so much to live for but what does all that matter if the illusion of life just completely disappears as if it were just a human's dream? That's like a human in his dream saying he's afraid to wake up because he has so much left to do in his dream.

Comments after 12 mg vaped: first, sorry for my nickname, you don't have to break, you have to make love with yourself. now I understand: when everything disappears, there is no mind, the void opens ... and suddenly everything, the experience, the reality, is a negation. This denial is not the nothing, it is me. Saying no, you don't go beyond here. The universe is one, and that one is a no ... ufff and I still do again and again, because i forget, i remember like void, the nothingness, but that void is closed. Today I have seen through the no, the door, the one that I myself close and do not open even with a breakthrough of 18 mg, the door that is me. I have seen unity, limitless, love. I have not become it, but I have been kind to myself. I ve seen me, what I am, what I'm doing. I am someone who at one point had to take serious control. Now is the time to let it go. It is not a thing to do 25 mg vaped, it would not work. It is to leave it, to let go. I'm around. 5 meo is magic, it's an invaluable tool

Came to share recent events in my life with regards to enlightenment and other personal matters. Took a week off work and did some contemplation. I was writing an essay on limitation and contemplating what it is in my direct experience. This has led me to a question "do things that cannot be experienced, exist?" which obliterated me. I made this thread to gain some insight into the matter and all the big boys came to help. I understood that I lost ground in my contemplation and started asking questions about things I have not experience of. In the process of tackling this question, I became conscious of the nature of abstraction and became acutely aware of how it dominates my experience. I understood experientially that every existence is unique and abstractions are a mode of thinking that is ultimately unsatisfying. After some more contemplation, I started reading "the book of not knowing" with hope to gain more insight into limitation. I read it once in the past and gained insight that I am the absolute truth from the first few chapters of the book that outlined the principles of contemplation. With every book, I start by glancing over the index and seeing which topics resonate with me. For the longest time I thought that this particular book is ought to be read from back to back. I mustered the courage and went straight to the last chapter about the true nature of existence because it sparked the connection with the relativity and limitation. With Peter's written guidance, I started contemplating what difference is, and I realized that it is not a thing and it does not exist. Yet, at the same time, I became aware that difference gives existence to "things". I became conscious that the true nature of existence is emptiness. I also became aware that it is impossible to understand it and it makes no sense whatsoever. Whoever claims to know infinity is full of shit. The intellect is entirely relative and it cannot grasp Nothing. Only not-knowing can bring about consciousness of nothingness. I was experiencing a lot of fibro-related pain at the time and I used this opportunity to contemplate what pain is. I quickly became aware that pain is an emotion and that true nature of emotion is survival and that survival is love, which is absolute. Again, only genuine, shocking, not-knowing can bring about this realization. I am Love, I am Existence, I am Nothing, I am Absolute. There is no such thing as a mind. As of yet, I was not able to properly shock myself into seeing the true nature of time. Today, in a dream, I understood that I have a belief that the present moment is beyond and around reality and contains it like a box. I know intellectually that it is a belief, but I am not currently able to access genuine not-knowing in this matter. On a more personal ground, my relationship with my sister rekindled after we spoke about numerology. I offered to show her more about it thanks to the books that were suggested to me by my friend @Zigzag Idiot. For the past two weeks, we've been meeting and I started teaching her I-Ching and showing how to consult the Sage. I am very happy that we are able to connect again and I will not let the ego appropriate this Cosmic Gift.

Who told you this to become nothingness? ? Laser focus on your breath, is the only way to stay focused.

Perhaps. The realization for me however was that this experience of being a human being, bound in time and space and illusion IS the reason we are having this experience of being human. This consensus realty we all experience may be the true hallucination, we are still having it. While it can have some value to peer beyond the veil to see maya for what it is, the purpose of being alive as a human is to experience being human, not flirt with nothingness. If you really think that a perpetual experience of Nothingness / God / Absolute truth is the goal, then suicide is likely the best option. But that is not why we are having a human experience. It is to live our lives, have experiences (both good and bad) within the relative matrix, share love and human connection and to value the beauty of this experience of being alive. There will be plenty of time for Eternity when we surrender back into the Void. But can you cook your dinner? Can you protect a hurt child? Can you make this worldly experience better for those around you? If not, then spirituality is really just narcissistic escapism. Being fully present and conscious in the ordinary is the goal of a spiritual practice IMO. Holding the hand of a dying loved one and letting the experience totally in, working on helping society and the Earth be better for everyone is the goal. Not experience transcendent states, live in bliss all the time or preach about solipsism, nihilism and spiritual narcissism.

@Endangered-EGO Well, I fit somewhere in that spectrum myself potentially, but it's not as severe as catatonic schizophrenia. However, I did experience a haunting many decades ago, and currently have a paranormal situation in my life where I see a non physical friendly entity that comes and goes with me. The recent one isn't intense that it interferes with daily life, but the haunting in my childhood did, but I'm lucky to be alive. I could likely be mild schizophrenia also, as another trait of people with that is they struggle with metaphors but do well with literal meanings. All this considered, if I do psychedelics, I am definitely micro dosing first, integrating that experience for a while, and slowly build up, taking notes about any insights and give myself weeks to months to process the experiences. I also get what you mean with de-personalizaton/de-realization disorder. I did self inquiry, the neti neti method many years ago, and while I did get a glimpse of nothingness, it depersonalized me, and I had depression for about a month which I recovered for the most part. It seems to me that there are always risks doing psychedelics rashly, and also spiritual techniques rashly. You could keep going and list risks of different types and degrees in each part of life, but the common denominator of those risks is the ego, other egoes and ignorance, so it's always a good idea to research beforehand.