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@charlie2dogs Yes, the Tao te Ching covers all that. @reflectivist Coming back to your question about effort and permanent realization: "Free from desire, you realize the mystery Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations" Desire is a product of living egoistically. Right now you view effort as a kind of burden right? That's why it's quite off putting to be told that constant effort is required. You desire non-effort so you will only see the manifestations of effort. That is, you will be all consumed by the psychosomatic response your body and mind goes through when you are engaged in something that requires effort. You will be constantly preoccupied with the outcomes of your effort as well. Let's say you sit down for a 5 hour strong determination sit. It will be hell for you because your desires will become all consuming when your legs and back start aching, or you get hungry and bored. After full enlightenment, when there is no longer an ego and therefore no longer any desires the sit will just be a flux of impersonal experiences (manifestations) and you will realize the mystery of the invisible immutable substrate (the Tao) in which all these manifestations are arising and passing. So after enlightenment there is effort but there is nobody left to suffer the effort. Realization is permanent but effort can arise and pass. There are in between stages. I'm interested to see Leo's video on the stages of the enlightenment. I like this video. Work, for the sake of work is a fantastic way of grinding down the ego.

God's a touchy subject. I'll paste an extract for the guidelines as a brief reminder to myself to keep on track. Feel free to substitute the word God for Spirit, The Universe, or whatever. In many spiritual disciplines and paths, either a personal or impersonal relationship with God is a tool for transcending or becoming enlightened. I think some might say it can be limiting or misguided, other might say it is useful, some might say it is fundamental. I personally think that given different paths, all these are true at one point or another. For example in the Bakhti school of yoga, the primary practice is one of devotion. Thinking of God at all given moments seems to me like one of (or) the primary practice/s. Here are two extracts from the Bhagavad Gita, a cornerstone hindu scripture. In this context, Krishna is the embodiment and representation of God. We could say that within these practices or paths that the idea of God (or any avatar) is only a symbolic representation of some transcendental omnipresent object, but still, it remains clear to me still that many saints and revered yogi's maintain a very sweet and personal inner relationship, almost like with a lover or something. I also personally suspect that many of these individuals have reached enlightenment. So what are your opinions and experiences on this subject? What is your personal relationships, if any, with God or the universe?

I have realised that the true-self is actually not a self at all.. but a conscious presence that is quietly observing the changing person. It makes awareness possible. It has been there observing the person grow up and become who it is based on genetics, culture, indoctrination, socialisation, conditioning, experiences.. etc. Some enlightenment teachers teach that we are only the "presence" that is making awareness possible. The problem I am having with wrapping my head around this is that, am I not also the human? It feels so impersonal when I simply think of myself as "presence". Where do we strike the balance?

If you have the extra how ever much it costs, then why not have a look? You don't have to believe any of it; but it is a package that purports to help people learn about themselves. Is it harmful? Yes; for the weak minded that might take some impersonal negative limitation and blow it way out of proportion.

You throw concepts away because concepts are not REALITY! WHy would I develop a self concept about me? That is just a SELF - IMAGE. I am not my self image or anyones IMAGE / THOUGHTS of me ! Why are you scared of doing what ever you want? Because we live in a world where we have to act certain ways to please certain people because of certain points of view There is no right or wrong. Its all BS ! Everything about life is impersonal ! Stop speculating so much that doesnt get u anywhere , just creates more CONCEPTUAL STORIES ... ! Sit down and ask yourself what is real until there is no more questions left. There is nothing rational about life or about Reality . Your mind likes to cling to models about reality and how life should be but be sure not to mistaken the MAP for the Territory! All concepts are symbols and images pointing at something. Its really hard to point at something that can't be perceived nor experienced because we are using more concept to remove concept . Regarding enlightenment.. @Nomad

Think about if it was someone who you didn't know much or have any complicated relations with, would you report that person for doing the thing whatever this other person you mention of is doing? If so then go ahead because it seems it's something you'd do as an impersonal act, if not it's probably not serious enough and just a revenge thing.