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Same thing happened to me years ago. Went full enlightenment mode, weakened the ego before having all my shit together. When I run out of money I was forced to come back to the evil socio-economic matrix, and was forced to interact as an ego from duality again (work, relationships, business) and it felt like a kick in the balls. So the lesson here is always work for economic independence first.
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Get a glimpse of nonduality, suddenly we think we are enlightened, or think we know the truth, but in reality we dont, we just have egoic impressions of it, ultimately no one really knows, they only know the path, they may use perceptual concepts of allness, or nothingness, but ultimately if you "experience nonduality" you are lying to yourself in my opinion. the buddha also mentioned that all these are still perceptual realities from our egos, no matter how mystical or "nonexistent" your experience may be, until your actual system is cleared of its fear mechanisms which build the ego, and the concepts that comfort or should i say numb your issues which you are not reflecting, until your system is cleared of mechanisms which make your experience dual, you arent in enlightenment at all, you just got an energetic opening/glimpse. . look at any dude here who uses realizations as egoic masturbation, anyone who dealt with self esteem issues and such can see through the wowness and power trip of these types of experiences and this can be subtle perceptions in the subconcious aswell. because the people who grew out of it they know it ultimately stems from insecurities not yet dealt with, just being real. but as you go through more of life, you get triggered of your issues, and you grow, you shed, and you let go, and each egoic paradigm thats broken down, more and more depth of reality is realized, because you're going through a process of reflection and understanding, being more and more inclusive (love, word can have baggage though) and open to reality, yet also unclinged and indifferent, not numbed. my point being, forget about nondual experiences, use the experiences as guides for your path, but even that attachment to those guides will be dropped too at a certain point. Leo is fully right when he says that this is a process, no doubt about it.
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we all know the pointings of all the religious texts is towards this non-duality which is confused but investigating that further to find the true-er meaning... as bible/quran say that do good and then you will get heaven and live there eternally heaven = enlightenment / end of the Ego/personal self so once 'someone' gets enlightenment - will 'he/she' now eternally exist in that blissful state after the death of 'their' body? like when mooji or e.tolle's body physically dies in this world, their now 'awakened soul' will not re-attach to another human baby form or something and have to live out life? will that 'awakened soul' just exist (we cannot say what, but will it not be reborn again? live eternally in heaven that is) ? yes, i know before/after enlightenment - chop wood carry water. but wanted to explore this point. another thing is this, it seems "pointless" in a way that if in my current living life, i get enlightenment and then live out the rest of it in a non-dual state only then to be reborn as another human avatar and live a life of suffering again it does seem imperative that enlightenment should be the end of the illusory world finally, i also firmly believe that the mystical/magical/fairtale version of heaven is there to be had as well - if an abiding muslim prays 5 times a day, does good, harms no one, lives selflessly (while still in a egoic mind) i.e. does good deeds, isn't bad to anyone etc. then she/he will attain heaven after their 'death' just like a person experiences their respective beliefs during a psychedelic trip or during a near-death experience - same way upon the death of their physical body, they will experience something in line with their belief - a heaven with flowing rivers of milk, fruits, women, whatever gets you excited i believe that the ending of the personal self ego is the highest level but living out this life of illusion as a pious, kind person such that your soul/consciousness is not guilty and is at peace would equal to getting the next level of existence within the illusion and that would be heaven ... or hell if one holds that belief and they have done "wrong" according to them for which their soul is not at peace (eternal bad trip after death awaits those)
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When I read threads here I see a few members that are truly great, they seem to know everything and have an aura of enlightenment about them. However, it still feels like they are refusing to make the very last step to finally become fully enlightened, like they hold something back. Like they are 99% enlightened and not aim any higher that that. At very rare occasions though, I see members who are all in so to speak, 100% , I often notice when facing those posts already after reading the first sentence. I can't nail what's special about them, they just are. They just feel so incredible transparent, honest and full of integrity. I feel their words digs in to my body and deliver silence and truth. What I notice about these posters is that they are not interesting in socialising or sharing ideas back and forth, they often just post one single post and that's it, then they are gone for good. In a way, all of those "One post wonder"- members had a dark picture of life. But it didn't felt dark at all reading them, rather it felt liberating to read them. A few of them decided to commit suicide, others have chosen to stay but they know there is nothing to gain in doing so. They just let the lucid dream continue, but for no reason really. The reason why I don't feel sad reading those dark posts is because I recognise how they desire REAL enlightenment in a way. And if you want REAL enlightenment, you can't really desire any aspect of worldly life, not even "enlightenment" within a body mind, and that explain the dark nature of their posts(which paradoxically aren't dark at all). They were not satisfied to reach a point were they saw through duality. They wanted more(same as less), they were not satisfied with a lucid dream within an agent lost in maya, they wanted FULL awakening. And think about it, first you don't recognise reality as a dream, you believe it is real, then you recognise it's nothing but a dream(maya). You're having a lucid dream by now, but that's not really to be fully awake. If you have a dream at night, and start realising you're in the middle of a dream, you might find it fascinating to be in a lucid dream for a while, but after that initial bliss and freedom of realising you're in a lucid dream, don't you want to quit the game all together, folding up to ten and become fully awake? I can't see how you can stay within a body mind and be fully enlightened, even if you don't identify at all with the body mind that carries you around. Can you? Also, at my most blissful in moments in life, when I really enjoy life the most, thoughts like "Nothing could be better then to be physical dead" have come to my mind. Those thoughts only come when I really experience great happiness in life, I think that is because the supreme creator know that I can handle the truth at that time. Those kind of thoughts never come me, when life isn't that good, then I think of a new car, a new carrier, a new girlfriend or anything other superficial. Elaborate.
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Water by the River replied to KatiesKarma's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
On question 1: On a relative level yes. Although souls are a relative appearance in the Absolute, they are nevertheless as real as any other appearance. See the two books of Jürgen Ziewe on these topics. He experienced all of that in OBE first hand. He has a book on a valid Full Enlightenment process (ten minute moment). I would have spotted if that were fake. That, and his general being in his youtube videos make him trustworthy in my opinion. Question 2: I read parts of it. And I am knocking quite constantly on Gods door to reveal himself. The Totality of Being/Reality/God can be adressed in 2nd person. And how could this Totality not respond to you? After having had the experiences you had with Psychosis, that is a very truthful way to approach God/Reality/Divinity. I only criticize that path if its used to blow up ones ego with messianic grandiosity, which is not the case with you. Have you read the Course in Miracles? I didnt read it fully, but the excerpts I have seen looked beautiful. Its a Christian inspired version of the Philosophia Perennis, quite compatible with a 2nd person communication to God, but also compatible to a nondual relationship to the Divine. -
Water by the River replied to r0ckyreed's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
There are different No-Self Awakenings in Buddhism, with more or less subtle duality left. Often the early unripe ones muddled with subtle identity are confused for True Full No-Self, which is fully nondual. Infinite. God. Absolute. At that level all is an imagined dream, God fooling itself... Comparing smaller no Self Awakenings with what Leo calls God Realization is comparing Apples with Oranges. He confirmed the Supreme Source quotes I posted as God realization. And Full Enlightenment is having that accessible in daily life without psychedelics. And without the remnants of separate self lenses colouring and denying the full stable realization while sobre. Pure impersonal infinite nondual consciouness. Being. Reality itself, a Realization not misfigured by separte self remains. Remains that make IT not quite Pure Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Reality/Being -
Water by the River replied to r0ckyreed's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
. I just love your posts. Full Enlightenment IS realizing the always here Truth, or ones own true infinite Being. What ones True Self and that of Reality IS. That (Full Enlightenment) happens in an awakened state, in which every form/arising/i-feeling/i-thought and every appearance of the "outer" world is directly and literally realized as mere appearance, happening in the Infinite Pure Impersonal boundless Being that Reality/You truly is. Which is the always here Reality. So not a state but Absolute Reality/God/True Nature. Afterwards its accessible and always right here, since the illusion filters have all been transcended, and "hard" boundless timeless and very empty nondual states ("or awakened states) have replaced the previous normal life with my center here/outer world/others there (duality), and the world appearing solid/external "out there". Replaced with groundless mere appearance ("clear light" in Dzogchen) arising in nondual way in infinite nondual being. And some quite amazing celestial/divine perception on how all of that if manifested from Pure Silent Infinite Consciouness to subtle realities (Awakenings/facets n+1) to gross material world and so on can develop afterwards. But for that, others are way more progressed than I am. See Harri Aalto for example. But all of that is form/manifestation. Not the essence of Absolute Reality/true You, but appearance arising in it, as IT. -
Water by the River replied to r0ckyreed's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Funny. Suddenly, Awakenings n+1 sound like more insights into the various facets/angles of the frog/God/Absolute Reality. And God Realization sound like Full Enlightenment. With Full Enlightenment having the benefit of sobre and permanent deep identity transformation, and its resulting access to the bliss of Absolute Reality. For divine/celestial perception after Enlightenement (or, understanding more of the relative facets of the frog), see for example Harri Aalto, David Buckland, David Spangler, and many others. In all Traditions. -
Water by the River replied to vibv's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Yes. If I would be author of the youtube-videos causing these conceptual Solipsism Ego-Inflations, I would scream now AWAKENING. NONCONCEPTUAL NONDUAL AWAKENING. And not just some contemplating and new solipsistic Ego=God concepts/worldviews on top of the olds ones. But apparently that screaming of AWAKENING is mostly being done in other contexts, like deflating meditation/serious longterm practice, or the possibility of Realizing the True Nature of oneself and Reality, or Full Enlightenment. I mean, can it get any more obvious and unvoluntarily parody-like? I know, all these little conceptual solipsism outbursts (OMNIPOTENT) serve exactly their job of highlighting where these kind of teachings lead to, but sometimes I wonder if it is more of an intellectual-insult or really great unvoluntary parody. Or both? I truly don't know... And here the TikTok-like version of the post above: -
Water by the River replied to Inliytened1's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Doing that after Full Enlightenment: Can work and does work. Separate self and its regularly occuring suffering gone/transcended. Can generate its own bliss with onboard-devices/awakened nondual states WITHOUT needing specific experiences for that. In other words, total freedom & love. Can do whatever its inclined to celebrate manifestation, including helping "others". Doing that before Full Enlightenment = easing the regular suffering /non bliss emotions caused in cycles by the separate self/ego illusion Gestalt with chasing experiences (this time, quite high up Maslows ladder, with transcendental insights/awakenings/whatever n+1). Doesnt work and can't work. Same project as any other unenlightened being is performing unsuccessfully in a myriad of ways ( maslow pyramid up and down). The mechanism described above works with mathematical precission. -
Water by the River replied to Inliytened1's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Then it was by definition not the Absolute . Maybe you should check how Absolute is defined. Realizing the Absolute comes with the realization that there CAN be nothing further. Yes, CAN be no further. And why the "CAN be no further" becomes clear with that realization. That is what makes this realization unique and final. It can't be put into concepts. If what you describe above turns out later into "something beyond is possible" it was not the Absolute but just a conceptual idea that this Awakening was final. As long as a further or beyond is not fully impossible the Absolute is not realized. As long as the "CAN be no further" is not realized its not full Enlightenment. But a facet, a fragment of the elephant. An Awakening or smaller/not full Enlightenment. The signifier Absolute is used too often without understanding its implications. Long story short: -
Water by the River replied to Inliytened1's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
And all those who proclaimed they realized their True Nature and the nature of all possible realms/Reality (aka Absolute Reality) in Full Enlightenment, which happened in all culutures in all centuries since millenia, and which tended to manifest extraordinary states and impacts on their fellow humans and surroundings... Well, all of them were deluded.... ?! And another misunderstanding concerning the final nature of Full Enlightenment: The exploration of Manifestation (and besides the Absolute Infinite Reality everything perceivable is manifestation arising in it) or existence as a mindstream or perspective or being that has realized its eternal true nature (which is of the same essence as all of infinite Reality/Being) doesnt stop, it rather starts, but from a fundamentally different basis: from caterpillar to butterfly. The former separate self illusion truly dead (no exaggeration, replaced by the potential to truly live as the Nondual Totality/Being). Can the caterpillar anticipate the existence as butterfly? Apparently a rather difficult task. Actually impossible, because if it would it immediately would be a butterfly. So True Enlightenment is not the end of the exploration and celebration of infinite manifestation/imagination, but the start of it.But since ones True Nature as the Pure Impersonal Infinite Nondual (in infinite unity with this and all worlds arising in IT) Suchness/Awareness/Reality/Being is present/accesssable all the time (since the separate self building blocks creating the illusion and preventing nondual states have been transcened/cut off, like localization, center, beliefs of being anything specific, all I-thoughts and I-feelings)... all of that happens without any remaining delusion/ignorance (PURE empty impersonal Awareness/Totality/Being) and without suffering/grasping for ever more experiences/states/understandings. Or in short: It feels very blissful, while anything that came before sucked/caused suffering and dissatisfaction (in cycles) quite a lot. So its not either (full) Enlightenment OR exploring infinitely more of Infinite Reality. But its enjonying, exploring and celebrating all of that, but after coming home to ones True Nondual Being. No need to construct any either/or. That was not your point, but a perspective of others which I adress here. So allow me one question: who in his right mind would reject the wonderful potential of this structure/stage (or manifestation of very continues wonderful states/insights into Truth and bliss)? Short form: Reality/Absolute/God is perfectly well able to understand and realize its essence (and that of all Reality also), and to understand how it fooled itself with this dream and its nearly endless illusion-mechanism. Who if not God/Reality/Being could wake up to its true Being if not itself? And if that can be done right here and now sobre without any remaining filters/illusions in the way it is called (full) Enlightenment. And IT either realizes itself fully or only facets (which is nothing other than not fully woken up). Selling Water by the River -
Water by the River replied to BlessedLion's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Well, (full) Enlightenment doesnt "work" like you describe. It is unmistaken. It is exactly not the kind of conceptual thoughts that you describe in the quote above. Nor is it any other kind of thought arisings/concepts. But directly realizing and being Absolute Reality with the former "you" and all its building blocks/arisings seen through and died/transcended.. But of course no one can transmit it with words, and it can only be understood after it happens. The degree of peace or suffering that Absolute Reality lets happen in the individual mindstream is a good indicator of the transcendence achieved so far. And there is no fooling the Gateless Gate. Infinitely intelligent Reality and such... -
Water by the River replied to BlessedLion's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Well, I was not asked... But since that is a topic everyone has coming up down the road... the most fascinating gentlemen on that in my view, which I take serious on it since his Full Enlightenment description is legit, is Jürgen Ziewe. https://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Astral_Travel_and_life_after_death.html -
Water by the River replied to BlessedLion's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
You don't need to experience the content of the mindstream of other perspectives to understand their essence/Awareness/Being. Only a fraction of Full Enlightenment descriptions contain a description like Leavitts Picture. And actually, there is no need for that. Structure/essence vs. content. Why it is that way can not really be communicated in language, but becomes clear once realization happens: a) When the last remnants for separation/individuality/separate-self are realized as just arisings in the Infinite Boundless Opening of Absolute Reality/Awareness, and the essence of each and every arising is realized to be a manifestation of THAT, there can be nothing outside/beyond/other to that. It is limitless, boundless and infinite. All there is and can be. Absolute Reality itself. b) The realization that there is nothing other than that Reality excludes the possiblity that there are other "Awarenesses" outside of that. c) And for the validity that each being has the same Pure Impersonal Awareness as its essence: That is a direct realization of just looking at one "other" being/perspective in these enlightened states. It is you. But here, I can not convince you with words or concepts. Train towards these nondual infinite pure empty Awareness states for yourself, and see. a) b) and c) is enough for Full Realization of Reality (and the essence of all possible beings). But like I said, I never claimed I can proove that to anyone without that being having Realization/Enlightenment. And I can't transfer that via text. No one can. Yet the model of Leavitt is a model that makes much more intuitive sense than the standard solipsistic "I exist and all other beings are blank puppets without Awareness or Non-Player-Characters so to say". That view is hazardous for awakening, it ends in Nihilism and Narcissism. That is the only reason I argue against it. It is a bad pointer that leads into the claws of ego and self-contraction and not liberation. -
Water by the River replied to BlessedLion's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
The "people" have the exact same Pure Impersonal Consciousnes/Awareness as their essence as "you" and "I". That is an obvious fact once you realize your own True Being. There is only That Infinite Reality/Consciousness. You see and realize your own Impersonal Pure Being in them also. That is the meaning of True Nonduality. That is the source of love. For the other "people": Notice the non-euclidian (infinite) space in the vision below. And now just forget all the other perspectives (forgetting not in time, but in space so to say). That is how you splice up Infinite Consciousness, and forget that YOU are all other beings/persepctives. The people/beings are just perspectives in Indras Great Net, reflecting each other, and that Impersonal Pure Infinite Consciousness/Awareness is the True You. Every "other" appeance (of the world, such as a tree) you see as as its essence THAT Infinite Pure Impersonal Consciousness in a nondual way. That is what becomes totally obvious with Full Enlightenment. There is only That/You. "You do agree that people have no POV just like in your dreams right ?" That is exactly the pretty nuts wrong interpretation of Solipsism. Why do you even talk to "others" if you hold that as true? Pretty unnecessary, isn't it? And space and time are of course imaginary. But one more thing: If all is imaginary, everything is just as real as anything else. Because if there is only imagination, there are no degrees of "real". Including that sentence and this insight. -
gettoefl replied to BlessedLion's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
full enlightenment ... the owner has been owned, the torch has been passed -
Water by the River replied to BlessedLion's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Very true. What Leo doesn't get - and will not get until he is truly fully enlightened (which will probably need some major humbling down/character change and meditation practice, and for starting that probably some really major suffering): In Full Enlightenment: it is understood (or available all the time) how the complete(-!-, each and any possible) illusion is constructed and what its essence is (oneself, Suchness). What the essence of each and any illusion-mechanism is. He thinks the enlightened beings "tell" themselves the story that they are enlightened, or have thought arisings like that.. and are still deluded doing that. Which of course is a joke for an enlightened being, because all of that blabla is seen as object-thoughts floating in ones Infinite True Self, besides which nothing can exist. Exactly that is the pre-requisite for Full Enlightenment. That all concepts, I-thoughts, I-feeling float in ones True Self, and is not who one really is. Not as idea, but as actual deep realization & reality, that holds in daily life and sobre states. INCLUDING that realization/understanding and its elaboration (if the thought-elaboration of that realization/understanding) happens. It comes with actual nondual states in which the boundlessness/infinite nature of Reality, and its character as mere appearance of any possible object/arising/thought/feeling/world is vividly clear as arisings/manifestations in ones True Infinite Self. Which is ones own TRUE BEING, which is realized by first BEING it (impersonal,nondual, infinite, mere appearance), and then asking/Koan what is "beyond" that/what is that/what is aware of that/what is constant in all of that. But Leo can't understand that, because he doesn't have these states sobre with impersonal empty awareness, but only with psychedelics where remnants of the separate-self are still active as lenses/filters/centers/identities. These prevent Full Enlightenment. On the classic path of meditation one only gets to these nondual states by already severely emptying out the separate-self/identity towards being largely impersonal/empty. And the rest gets kicked and emptied out in these nondual infinite awakened states. That doesn't happen in psychedelic nondual states to the same high degree (magnitudes lower), and that is why the true (nondual and so on) Awakenings later get hijacked by ego. One gets the nondual states for free without paying the empty/impersonal/ego-transcendence price. And that backfires... He truly believes that a full enlightened being has falling for the delusion of identifying/thinking of himself as enlightened. Which indeed would be a delusion, and that often happens after some smaller enlightenments. Thats the true part to the story (nobody is smart enough to be wrong all the time). With Full Enlightenment, it is absolutely clear that this move is one more idiotic delusion-mechanism ("the enlightened person") on top, and even that has to go. Together with each and all mistaken identity/I-thought/I-feeling arisings. And THAT understanding/realization is final. It brings bliss, peace and freedom from fear. It shows ones true immortality, and the essence of each and any (alien-, n+1) realm. And that essence is Ones True Self. There is no other, in any and each realm, never possibly could be. That is all manifestation/relative stuff/mechanisms/realms. There also was no one really confused and ignorant, just the illusion-arising of that happening. There CAN'T be any other higher Awakenings/Realizations than that. Only more Awakenings/Insights into more understanding of manifestation mechanisms of various realms, or these (alien for example) realms themselves. Of which there is (the bummer) an Infinity of them. Which God is exploring. Forever and ever and ever. And Leo has hijacked Gods job of doing that (as a mere mortal), has become addicted to it to ease his suffering, and is now suffering for ever more of that wonderful blissful Awakenings (they are beautiful, but still passing) in a grasping way. And selling this as path to salvation. Bravo, well done! Instead of chasing Porsches, Yachts and Villas, we chase AWAKENED STATES and understandings into Alien Realms, N+1. I would have no problem with him doing that for himself until wising up. But he is promoting and selling this to partly young & vulnerable beings which risk crashing their life on a relative level (education/professional career/friends/relationships) by doing unhealthy transdence (grasp for the higher + dislike/disassociate/neglect from the lower levels of being = opposite of healthy development which is defined as transcend and include and integrate, and not transcend and disassociate/dislike/hate (the relative, including humanity) and no integration - anybody seen this with Leo?!). That is the direct path to sick development, instead of healthy development/growth. So, then some little predictions from my side: The enlightened ones will never change their position on these points of Full Enlightenment. Because a) self-evident and b) final. And apparently a few ones are already haunting this lovely forum. Leo will probably not accept that until he himself is fully enlightened, or being severly humbled by suffering. Since he is not even aspiring or keeping the possibility of Full Enlightenment in an open-minded way (which is the cardinal sin in spirituality), he will go chasing higher Awakenings until being severely humbled up, probably by severe suffering & crash burn. Or he will just continue in grasping, seeking and suffering ways for ever higher Awakenings, and act the "lovely" way he does as ONLY AWAKE BEING on the planet. And just act more or less narcissistic and inflate his Ego as God. Like in ONLY ONE AWAKE ON THE PLANET, instead of the less insane (but also illusory) MOST AWAKE of everyone he knows of. He needs to belittle Full Enlightenment to keep his perspective of the superiority of ever more AWAKENINGS n+1 going. Which is a fulminant cul-de-sac preventing further growth towards real impersonal (non-narcicisstic, non-ego) Full Enlightenment. And its not the first time that the psychedelic-only path has been tried. It never worked. Here is Ken Wilbers comment on it: "The downside comes with people that only use psychedelics or drugs and I found that over the years they just become mean. That if somehow it just kind of closes them down. It's like you keep doing it and you keep doing it you keep doing it doesn't quite cause the transformation it can cause a peak experience but generally not a transformative experience". Sounds familiar? Water by the .... River! -
Water by the River replied to BlessedLion's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Yes, but you are teaching a dangerous psychedelic path to the masses, claiming it as superior to anything else (including Full Enlightenment). Don't be so sure that nobody else is doing the (psychedelic) path of exploring higher realms or has done it. Christopher Bache, Stanislav Grof. Harri Aalto. David Buckland. And many more, on request. From all I can see, the forum is flooded with egos who think they are God in narcicisstic and solipsistic way. Boosting their ego, not transcending it. That goes on your Karmic bill. Read a bit of Jürgen Ziewe how these negative energies caused by the suicides and other trainwrecks when your fanclub destroys their life on a relative level will haunt you (literally) in the afterlife and next life. I live by this here: Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour. – Padmasambhava And it has served me very well. I have a beautiful life on the relative level, and the bliss of Reality has become very very stable in my mindstream. For heavens sake, stay a bit agnostic on the topic of superiority of Full Enlightenment vs. AWAKENING n+1, and put some warnings/disclaimers on this dangerous path of yours for your followers. And maybe a little bit tell your following that the ego/separate-self is supposed to be transcended and let go, and not boosted to solipsistic narcicisstic God-like dimensions. Water by the River -
Water by the River replied to BlessedLion's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Very true. See also Harri Aalto for that. But this reduction of Consciousness to "baseline/fundamental/nothing nature" is done by Leo, not by those truly enlightened. Reality/Infinite Consciousness IS everything, every realm, every manifestation, literally. So how can that be reduced to "baseline"? Nothingness, highlighting the impersonal nature of Absolute Consciousness, is just a teaching tool, a pointer. There are all kinds of celestial refined visions of how exactly Reality/Infinite Consciousness creates Reality on the fly, see Haari Aalto or David Buckland. So claiming that Full Enlightenment reduces everything to baseline consciousness (and that Leo is exploring the higher areas of the x-axis) is just wrong. But a necessary move made by Leo to declare the lower the higher and vise-versa. I am sure you would like the book by Harri Aalto "The Landscape of Enlightenment: With Doors and Windows to Our World". Enlightened as a child, consciousness in deep sleep as early adult, and now seeing via celestial vision/refined perception exactly HOW Reality/Infinite Consciousness creates this world on the fly, its mechanisms and endless realms/dimensions. Without psychedelics. All of that stuff that fascinates Leo, but Harri Aalto has that on a permanent ongoing basis, plus Full Enlightenment. Being the elephant and not only touching its facets part-time, but being aware of the manifestation-mechanism and endless realms sobre. There are cases of that in all spiritual traditions, across all times. One just has to look... -
Water by the River replied to BlessedLion's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
With that quote from LuciaLorn I agree, because SHINING forth AS something is describing manifestation of the Infinite Absolute. One of the first manifestations and roll-out patterns for any realm/manifestation/world: Love. And of course the Infinite Singularity/Absolute is always one and always has been one with love. The essence of love is the Absolute, gold and ring metaphor. The Absolute doesn't manifest the Infinite SIngularity, IT IS the infinite Singularity, without an opposite to it. The One without a second. Not just the One. That is why in the end you can describe its manifestations, but you can not limit the Absolute by putting any (duality) word/label on IT which it is supposed to be. A word only has meaning in terms of its opposite (language IS duality), the Absolute HAS no opposite. Reality has no opposite. That would limit it. So the manifestations of the Absolute have properties, tendencies and so on, and its even ok to say that the Absolute has the tendencies to manifest in certain ways/patterns (like love). But saying the Absolute IS love is a mistake, because that would limit it. The Absolute is beyond all of that. And the hallmark of True Enlightenment is exactly realizing that, and not deviating one Iota from that. As soon as labels gets put on the Absolute as being this or that: "This or That" is a "facet" of the Absolute, an "experience"/"Awakening" of it: The blind touching the elephant and proclaiming something about its manifestations (trunk, ears, legs ...). But not truly BEING the whole elephant. There are more or less good pointers (like Nothingness, Infinite Consciousness, Absolute love, and so on) that drop being near to the summit of the mountain. But they ALL FAIL on the final step, Full Enlightenment (including Nothingness and Love and Infinite Consciousness). The final step is becoming IT, or realizing that one has always been IT, and not the clouds of the former ignorant illusion-separate-self. Death of former identity. And of all labels. -
Water by the River replied to BlessedLion's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
That is how it looks like when one has not reached Full Enlightenment. Full Enlightenment is the realization of what everything is (Reality), and what oneself truly is. By BEING it. He thinks he has it with his Awakenings, but I agree with Inlightened1 and Osaid that he confuses the lower with the higher. Leo is busy engaging in the exploration of that which is already manifestation and form, although of the higher/highest realms of the manifestation of consciousness. But still manifestation occuring IN the Absolute and not being/realizing Absolute itself by being it fully and truly. Impersonal. And that exploration can easily become an addiction and disfunction. To ease the suffering of the ego/self-contraction that is not transcended. Hence, no Awakening in sobrestates , because the self-contraction is in the way and not cut off/transcended fast enough in real time. No nondual awakened states sobre, because the untranscended self-contraction/ego prevents it. And guess what this untranscended separate-self/ego is doing in AWAKENINGS? Misinterpreting the Awakening, and what the true self really is. Although it doesn't see that all these Awakenings are interpreted though the lense that the self-contraction constitutes. Ego = God. Wilber on that in Religion of the Future. Chapter Dysfunctions of the 3rd-Tier Structure-Views, Violet Meta-Mind: "The “visionary” nature of the violet meta-mind is fundamentally due to the growing perception that the entire Kosmos is indeed a coenaction of consciousness itself, and the present given universe, as normally perceived, is merely one of hundreds or even thousands (or more) of other worlds (and this, indeed, is one interpretation of the string theory of modern physics). On the one hand (from one perspective), these are all different aspects of One World; on the other (from another perspective), they are all completely separate and different worlds altogether. Individuals often have the sense that they can “penetrate” or “step into” one or more of these other dimensions —the world is just such a wildly open, transparent, diaphanous, sheer, gossamer, filmy place that one can walk right through it and intoother worlds. And the Present moment itself is often the doorway; it is not by “transcending” temporal duration entirely that one can penetrate to an alternative reality but by entering into this Present with more and more Presence. One can step deeply enough into the timeless Now to step into another dimension altogether—just step right here, and push hard. It’s easy to get lost in those worlds, which are, at bottom, simply different dimensions and perspectives of one’s own (violet) consciousness (although, as noted, from another angle, they are all real, ontologically different realms because they are each genuinely co-enacted by a different perspective in consciousness). Given that this stage is the first great transition from “earthly” realms to “heavenly” realms (as a permanent structural enaction), getting lost in these “higher worlds” is indeed one of the most common dysfunctions of this level. The deeply transcendental, otherworldly, electrically visionary nature of consciousness at this altitude makes fixation to this side of the street an incredibly inviting and alluring venture. This is likely to couple with the dysfunction, discussed earlier, of standing in heaven and giving a blistering critique of life here on earth, with all the semiprophetic pomp and pomposity that comes with it." And for the claim that no one has reached or explored what Leo tells about with all the Alien Awakening and so on stuff, because no one is telling/writing about it. I disagree here: Maybe check Harri Aalto, Christopher Bache, David Buckland, Stanislaf Grof and Jürgen Ziewe (and his descriptions of the Superrealms). And many others more on request. I have not seen one fundamentally and structurally really new description of the explorations he claims that has not been described before. I doubt he has read much about other explorers of these realms, and that is why he thinks he is the only AWAKE. And when he claims he is the most AWAKE on the planet: Little Public Relations-recommendation: The most awake on the planet of all those he knows, read or heard about. Or better claim clairvoyant skills (able to judge each person on the planet) right from the beginning. Water by the River -
Water by the River replied to BlessedLion's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
I agree that in this way an enlightenment experience can be misused for form an enlightened-person/enlightened separate-self. That would be an Awakening/an Enlightenment. But: The nondual state can become permanent. From peak to plateau to permanent. And then, when having rested long enough in awakened nondual states, the separate-self remains can be seen through/transcended/cut-off for good, and the True Nature of Reality and oneself can be directly realized. And that is then called Full Enlightenment. That normally happens after a long time in awakened (and already nondual/unity) states in which the remains of the separate-self are gradually transcended/dissolved. -
Water by the River replied to BlessedLion's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
I have no proof concerning the Rainbow Body, yet I personally believe its legit in some cases. Essentially that happens from longterm Dzogchen Trekchö/Togyal-practice, which is essentially stabilizing enlightened/awakened states when the visual field has become nondual, infinite and mere groundless appearance (Tibetans call that clear light. Very similiar to Bucklands or Haari Aaltos descriptions of divine refined perception) on a sustained basis. Basically Full Enlightenment, and living from that state in a stabilized way in daily life for a long time (Ken Wilber peak-plateau-permanent). -
Bufo Alvarius replied to BlessedLion's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
@Water by the River So where do you see the difference between full enlightenment how you view it and Rainbow Body enlightenment? How come some masters realize the rainbow body (full dissolution into light) before the physical body dying, while other manifest it upon death where they only leave hair and nails, while other masters don't manifest it at all despite being fully enlightened?
