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Hear hear. "Confuse the state that arises [when they have an enlightenment (or awakening)] with the consciousness itself..." That (mistaken) move is as old as the spiritual traditions themselves. It is descriped in varying degrees of clarity & complexity in all of them. It all depends on how much the (separate-self) structure interpreting the experience/state has become empty/impersonal/transcended/seen/made subject/filter/lense->object and so on...

The problem is imagining that God is a guy (specifically you), who gets bored, and does things, and is very joking and hides from himself, and all that. that conception occurs when the ego is not completely dissolved. reality is the unlimited infinity, that is what you are ultimately and it is completely impersonal. Infinity manifests itself in the cosmos in constant evolution, it is said to be love in the sense that it is pure existence without limits, not that it loves you and cares for you. You are the limitless wild reality, surrounded by thousands of limits imposed by thousands of generations of humans and millions of years of evolution to create the extremely complex pattern of existence that is now manifesting. Everything that happens is a cosmic dance, a very complex movement of evolution. Simplifying it as: you are god and you love yourself is wrong. what is god? you? No, you are the product of apparent duality. break the you, and limitless reality manifests. You can call it love, since limitless existence is what we call love, and in the dance of existence there is ying and yang, birth, death and evolution. You could say that it's imaginary, but it's just a word that implies a subject who is doing something, imagine, with a result, a dream . Wrong. there is just the reality happening, with many layers of patterns creating complexity. You are the reality, but reality is not a you

In the sentence you just said there is a subject, you, doing something, dreaming, with a result, an experience or a dream, and you are going to do it in the future, temporality. I see it differently. the self is not the creator but the result of the appearance of perceiver and perception. the total reality that is defined in a pattern that appears as this experience is impersonal, it is not you, it is not boring, it does not hide things by playing games, it is reality sprouting, your ultimate nature but not "you". and temporality is an apparent barrier. The future is in another dimension than the present. This barrier is fictitious, like any other barrier in infinity .you only perceive your experience because you are your experience. experience is relative, it is created by limiting the infinite to appear finite, because the infinity is not an experience, since it's not "happening", it's absolute, immutable by definition. Is it possible for this experience to happen simultaneously? I think so, since in infinity there is no difference between simultaneous and successive, and it's obvious that if one experience is apparently happening, it's not the only in the eternity.

Yes to that on an absolute level/perspective, big question mark on the relative/appearance level. And maybe God/Reality arranged it (just to have fun) in such a way that from a relative perspective it looks very much like life-bardo-life-.... and so on, with all the Karma/learning experiences over many lifes, stored in some kind of Kosmic Memory, forming a kind of soul? Sure all relative/appearance, but everything else you perceive/think/feel is also relative/appearance. And as long as one doesn't rest quite permanently in Impersonal Nondual Suchness, the relative does look & feel very real, and can make quite some (emotional) impression... So in my opinion, a wise perspective on Karma (and reincarnation): "Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour." Padmasambhava There are endless reports (over all centuries and cultures) ranging from meditation experiences (for example of Storehouse Consciousness and many realms/dimensions), to Out-of-body-experiences (experiencing for example after death realms, or storehouse-consciousness for these soul-units), or Near-Death-Experiences, all showing some of the relative truths of all of that. Among the best stuff I have seen so far, combined with some legit Enlightenment-Experiences, is the material/books/videos from Jürgen Ziewe: https://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Astral_Travel_and_life_after_death.html And as Bazooko said correctly: ALL of that is manifested/incarnated/imagined right here and right now, including the imagined past/history/Karma/Reincarnation/all of it. But that would be the Absolute Truth. And as long as the relative/manifestation side has emotional impact, philosophizing from and flying high more towards the Absolute Side of Truth is dangerous terrain... as recently demonstrated here quite impressively. Water by the River

I think that the problem of solipsism comes as a consequence of the error: I am infinite, or I am God. if there is "I", it is because the limits have only been partially broken and the construction of the self remains. then from that base everything is corrupted.if I am infinite, only I exist, then others do not exist, is logical reasoning. I would say that the reality is that from the relative point of view, the others are real, and from the absolute, there are no others or me, there is totality. if it seems to you that you are in an infinite state and you think: fuck! The others are not real, only I exist! It is that you are not in an infinite state. if there is loneliness, ideas that you are creating reality because you feel alone, all this means that the self is still there. The total infinity is impersonal, it's not "you", because the self is a relative creation.

Yes I understand. So the main argument that @Javfly33 is presenting is that consciousness is not a property of people. Rather..people occur within an impersonal field of isness/ consciousness. The hardest part is the temptation to label all those background ppl an autopilo NPCs. Since you can NEVER EVER see the world through their eyes .

But what is enlightenment? there are levels of openness to reality, and there are moments of absolute dissolution, when you completely drop the self. (which by the way fit his description of impersonal empty conciousness) but then those moments pass, and you return to limited state. from that state we create stories about what reality is, but they have little value. what has value is the opening now. How far can that opening go? We don't know, the work is to open more and more the reality (so us). I'd say that on the one hand, there is enlightenment, now realizing your true nature, of the total emptiness that is the infinite, that same time is everything, and on the other hand, there is the understanding of the cosmos, of God. I would say that God is the cosmos. God is a creation. you are god in the sense that you are the reality happening, but before god you are the empty ocean of being. but maybe in a month I'll say something different.

For the majority (95%+) of cases I doubt that sober inquiry can do it. The "liftoff platform" for Enlightenment (the platform on which the accident of Enlightenment can happen) normally are awakened nondual and empty states. 95% is of course a rough estimation, but if asked and based on the contemprorary & historical cases I am aware of that would be my estimate. I don't agree on that. See Ken Wilber Pre- Trans-Confusion on the topic of babies. Animals are not enlightened, they are not even self-reflectively aware. Yet, these are beings that share the same Infinite Impersonal Consciousness that is the true essence of all of us. But anway, something has shifted for you, and that is wonderful. Enjoy it, and try to live from it. Selling Water by the River

Yes. That is what I can confirm, and that sequence one can also find in every spiritual tradition. The bold parts of your text are excellent. Welcome home to a home you never left. What was your practice/path? The normal sequence is: 1. Practice (or just Karma/"luck". But I would estimate from what I have seen that for 90% it was practice). Efficient way: Meditation + psychedelics + integration work + many other things. 2. Many Awakenings (some traditions already call these Enlightenments)/ into stabilizing awakened nondual and empty/impersonal Awareness states: Into all these aspects (some aspects of Absolute Reality show up, like emptiness or nondual unity, love, timelessness, Infinity, and so on... But the separate-self is STILL yet not fully seen through). The separate-self gets more and more transcended, ones identity more and more empty and more like Pure Awareness, and then it gets nondual/unity with the whole visual field/manifestation. These Awakenings (field getting nondual and ones identity more and more just empty awareness) are normally caused by the practice that makes accident-prone. And then comes the accident that is called Enlightenment (that can't be willed, since that would be a spearate-self wanting that which is already the case, and by doing that covering it), and for which practice makes accident-prone. Enlightenment tends to happen for most only in very specific Awakened States (nondual/unity AND impersonal/empty). For that, I have written elsewhere (Mahamudra stage 3 (Awakened states of nondual and empty) "One Taste-Yoga" to Mahamudra stage 4 (stabilizing these states without doing anything) "Yoga of Nonmeditation). Bliss: These awakened states are already very blissful without needing external experience for that. 3. (Full/Basis/Great) Enlightenment into the True Nature of Oneself: Infinite Reality = Infinite limitless Impersonal and totally Empty Consciousness CONTAINING Infinite Manifestation, in an infinite Unity/Totality. The essence of every appearance/manifestation is the same Suchness as Infinite Consciousness/Awareness. A deep identity level shift, away from a separate-self to being aware that "one" is and always was the Totality/Infinite Reality/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness. Phase 2 is gradual(!), Phase 3 (Shift of Full Enlightenment) is a sudden and complete understanding into the eternal and immortal nature/essence of all of Reality (limitless) and ones True Self (Awareness/Nothingness containing all manifestation). It can not be mistaken, is sure, doesn't need any external validation (understanding it by being it, and IT is infinite/all there is and can be). It is totally beyond "any further" and beyond any need for any confirmation. It is self-evident. This insight/understanding/realization is "more assured/ultimately assured" (beyond any chance for being shaken again) because anything else can only possibly just be more phenomenal arising (including any sensory-arising like visual arisings, but also including any other (I-)thoughts/concepts/I-feelings/n+1). Why? To quote Ralston: IT IS YOU. Infinite Consciousness containg any possible appearances. Limitless. Infinite. Any limit would appear in IT. Empty. Any arising (tree, thought, I-feeling, anything) appears IN IT. Impersonal (onself can be nothing specific or personal, since one contains it all). And its Pure Awareness (without any location, without any second) itself. Potentially unaware if nothing arises. But always right here, never can not not be here, independent of whatever happens/appears IN IT. It is waking up. Its essence is understanding that the separate-self as independent "anything" DOESN'T exist (just appears as illusion IN THAT), and never existed (was always an illusion), and can/will never exist (even if in another life illusions-arisings will occure again in ones True Being/Reality. The Awakenings (2) are insights/understandings into aspects/properties of the nature of Reality/True Self/Infinite Consciousness. That then evolves, towards nondual/unity awakened states. And THEN the final big shift of full Enligthenment can happen, in which the nature of Infinite Reality/Ones True Identity as Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Infinite Reality is revealed. 4. Stabiling this Enlightenment, and letting it reorient the character top-down and back again towards love/openness/staying in nondual impersonal Suchness ("BEING the Totality"). Even then still, the separate-self character can still hijack the show (peak, plateau, permanent), but the separate-self-character and its associated suffering has lost its mirage-like seductive power. Its essence (Suchness/Infinite consciousness) is immediately seen when feeling into it. And that holds true for all building blocks of the separate self. So lapsing after Enlightenment is just a hang-over from a long time of illusion , and once noticed any emerging separate-self-arisings can be killed/transcended by just looking into it. Bliss: A lot and growing, since the awakened states now get even more stabilized and are always accessible. When True Nature is known, and if the separate-self-character "hijacks" again the show: Just look into these arisings and realize again their essence as manifestation IN the Infinite Reality/Consciousness that one really is, and return to what one really is. While after (only) Awakening(s) (stage 2), certain elements of the separate-self-character are not seen fully through, or are NOT understood. One of the last stages is a very nebulous empty separate-"something" that is already in nondual unity with everything manifesting. But there is still an "Understander" or "a not yet fully understander" or some "seeker" -arisings there.... Roger Thisdell stage 4 vs. stage 5. Stage 4: stage 5: Maybe that is helpful for some. Please don't beat me. Selling Water by the River

Infinity is not the same as infinite. Infinite = In-Finite. Not finite. Not measurable, nor any objective qualities. Szyper, Infinite Consciousness is a nice book on that topic, same as Dziuban, Consciousness is all. Infinity on the other side is something else. It is a class of mathematical objects: There are several classes of Infinity, even differently sized Infinites, some larger than others (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor). Leo has nice videos on that. Infinity/Infinities (for example as worlds/realms/universes) are contained in in-finite consciousness, with in-finite consciousness as their essence. The Absolute is Infinite Impersonal Empty Consciousness/Awareness, in nondual union with all its limitless manifestations/apperances arising within it. In-finite consciousness. Or the abyss of Empty Impersonal Awareness/Consciousness, with no objective qualities (the eye can't see itself), but with the potential for Awareness. Your True Being. That can be realized as essence of onself, as essence of all of limitless reality, and at the core of every "other" sentient being. Normally it takes a long time of removing clouds of mistaken identity arisings covering ones essence. Maybe that is a bit useful. Bon voyage! Water by the River

You confuse ego with god in my opinion. things are more complicated, because reality is infinite. you have to drop the ego, totally. merge it with the ocean. and not once but on a daily basis, and not just on psychedelics but sober, and then you begin to understand. I, the relative self that is infinite reality but manifests as a self in opposition to what is not self, dissolves and realizes what it is: impersonal ocean of existence. This is total freedom, you will be smiling for an hour. The ocean of existence is not alone, alone it's just a relative concept, isn't it obvious?

I like Snoopys perspective on these not so happy transitionings from this life to the next: ... and the end of suffering is possible, as stated by every spiritual tradition since millenia. Thousands of Realizers over the centuries stating that. And the recipe is transcending the illusion of the separate self-contraction, becoming the Nondual Totality/Reality, and then finding out what is aware of all of that... or the real You, Reality itself. And before talking about keeping that final Realization while being nailed at the cross, it is a good start maintaining some Awakening during everday life. There have been prominent cases who have had challenges with staying in the awakened perspective during these unfortunate transitions (Jesus on the cross “My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me"). But since the Real Nature of every being has no moving parts or anything else objective/material that could be "damaged", apparently "IT" didn't get damaged while suffering that procedure. Or any other of the lovely mishaps you mention. But Nightmares are possible in the dream for sure. IT never changes, because it is empty pure Impersonal Awareness itself without any core, mechanism or objective/material anything. And it is also all of manifested/imagined Reality in a nondual way. Worst case you can have is a nightmare. Although a veery realistic one. That is why Karma is so important: Its all a dream, but one can have a nightmare, and Karma works with mathematical precission. So, anyways, just take up some hopefully efficient practice and see for yourself concerning the topic of the end of suffering. Selling Water by the River

Who me? I increasingly think that the problem with psychedelic revelations is that they are corrupted by the presence of the human self. faded but present. you are a creation, what appears as god dreaming the reality is you having a psychedelic trip believing that you are dreaming reality, but it is the other way around, it is reality that is dreaming (creating) you. Reality is what you are and it's impersonal and unlimited. You have to dissolve the self to realize the reality. Reality is not dreaming, is happening. I mean, there is not the reality, or god aka you, in one side, doing something (dreaming), with a result: the cosmos aka the dream. There is the infinity happening, and within the infinity, you are, and within you, the infinity is.

at an absolute level everything is perfect because everything is exactly like reality, that is, you, want it, including the fact that it seems that you want the exact opposite of what is happening. really the human you that is depressed is the same unlimited impersonal you that is reality, only veiled / limited by the appearance of the relative, the illusion. from the veiled self it is impossible to understand that being depressed and having your parents throw you into a dump to have fun watching the rats devour you is perfection, but it is

Yes (the bold letters). The Real You. An Infinite silent eternal Abyss/Singularity of Infinite (empty and impersonal, or pure) Consciousness, being Infinite Reality/Existence itself, and containing all worlds and arisings/apperances in a nondual way, perceiving itself by itself. And once the separate-self-arisings parts of the human are gone (or known well and cut off fast enough), IT becomes stable. The functional part of the human/soul/individuality continues, even better than before, because it no longer suffers from a mistaken identity and the separate-self-contraction. Selling Water by the River

I would say that the label "impersonal" arises in our minds given the necessary absence of the "human" for this opening to really occur, but on the other hand, it is you, existence. In experiences with 5meo, (of which I have had many and will continue to have, since I do not use it as a means of understanding but as a means of breaking) the unlimited is manifested but it is very forced, violent, since it occurs by artificially eliminating a living part settled in my mind, the human. Yesterday (due to that rupture work, among other things) the thing happened almost naturally, the human only had to be slightly narcotized, and with this the lucidity was much greater. the beauty of these openings is enormous, this is what we are looking for. but I see it as a difficult process, impossible to teach to others, which requires a deep understanding of what it means to be human. Well, I'll keep looking for the total opening, nothing is comparable.

Beautiful! IT (what you describe, bold markings by me) is always right here, and can not be gone. Just temporarily clouded with containing/giving arising to the illusion-arisings of the self-contraction (certain I-thoughts and I-feelings). One can do perfectly fine without them, because most of them are just suffering. I am happy for you that you had this Awakening, insight and experience. That is a wonderful "place" to live ones life from. Water by the River PS: Just some further musings, not specifically intented as answer for you/your post, but also for others that maybe are a bit put off (or just dont really know what I mean by that) by my frequent mentioning of the Impersonal/Nonpersonal [or empty] Nature of Reality/Pure Primary Consciousness/Infinite Consciousness. I certainly would have been a few years ago. [IT/Infinite Reality (what you describe, bold markings by me) is always right here, and can not be gone. Just temporarily clouded with containing/giving arising to the illusion-arisings of the self-contraction (certain I-thoughts and I-feelings). One can do perfectly fine without them, because most of them are just suffering.] Yet, after waking up, the personal individuality/soul stays, though no longer being a separate-self, but an enlightened being in nondual unity with existence itself. Impersonal or non-personal is not bad at all (although it can sound scary in the beginning), but on the opposite: It allows for the full expression of ones individuality or soul-qualities, that now can finally flourish in nonduality, and are no in a contracted separate-ness, hampeing its flow and expression with suffering and other not so nice experiences. But instead expressing itself fully in the Infinite Existence/Reality that one really is then, containing in this perspective (of Indras Net/Reality itself) this individual soul and its expressions. It is like: Unenlightened Being/perspective = Absolute Reality + Individuality/soul + and separate-self arisings cutting Nonduality/Reality into two, creating suffering and/or boredom. Enlightened Being/perspective (or better woken up perspective in Indras Net, since the separate being has been transcended and replaced with Infinite Reality itself) = Absolute Reality + Individuality/soul (each perspective/being is different, have different traits and capacities and inclinations, even enlightened ones) + and no more separate-self arisings cutting Nonduality/Reality into two, but instead True Identity= Impersonal/Nonpersonal Infinite Reality + containing (transcended and intergrated) Individuality/soul, evolving further in this non-contracted state of being. Enlightenment is not the final end of the caterpillar-being (only of certain aspects of it (clouding mechanisms, separate-self-illusions), preventing it from being a butterfly), but just the beginning of the unique butterfly and its path, this life and the next...

@Water by the River yyesterday I had an awakening experience, and today I was thinking in what you use to say about enlightenment. I wrote this: yesterday I had an experience that I can't call anything other than enlightenment. I have been thinking a lot about states of consciousness, awakening, understanding, and I was clear to me hat everything is a matter of levels of depth, and that these are infinite. Yesterday morning I took 20 ug of lsd, low but it has a profound effect on me. it allows me to interact with people but at the same time be in an open state, with the flavor of lsd fully present. around 8:00 p.m. in a park I smoked a single puff of weed. I sat down and started thinking about the couple, the sex, and suddenly, something happened. my mind opened completely. the mental flow stopped completely and my being opened, like a plant, leaving an empty hole inside. suddenly, there was no more human, there was no more mind, zero. there was only existence. bright, pure, limitless. laughter. that was. that's it. nothing to understand, nothing to know, all that belongs to the human mind, any comprehension was implicit in existing, there were no more questions, this is what I am, life or death does not matter, reincarnation or whatever, they are all mental stories. brilliance, perfection, recognition of myself as a completely impersonal, free, unlimited existence. nothing to interpret, I stayed in that state for a couple of hours, smiling. that is what I was looking for, the complete purity of the existence that I am. It is not a high state of consciousness, it is the complete purity of consciousness. It cannot be raised any higher because it is beyond the levels, it is simply the total absence of mental contamination. is to be. It is complete joy, my true nature, it cannot be better, there is no more ambition. It is something that if you tell someone, they will find it boring, lacking in content, lacking in future prospects. it is simply being, but same time it's everything. But now I'm doubting. Let's see , Maybe more depth is possible. It's extremely beautiful, so it could became addictive.

Thanks for describing your experience. I do agree with that, based on my own experience. And thousands of others in all cultures and centuries described it like you do. That is a very important element of the path. It probably sounds quite a bit nuts, boring and strange. At least I would have interpreted it like that a few years ago... But that is exactly how the Impersonal (Silent/Pure/Empty) Infinite Consciousness perceives all of its manifestation in certain awakened nondual states, watching itself, perceiving itself, being itself and the world, by itself, for itself. (1) That starts to happen when the self-contraction/separate-self is seen through, transcended and cut off either with high enough speed & proficiency, or with some more energetic state-change techniques. So the resulting flow of bliss makes it no longer possible for any grasping/contracting thought/feeling-arising to grip & contract the focus/attention (and cut the nondual field into two, or duality), and create bad emotions/stop the flow of bliss. And motivating the separate-self with that resulting suffering again for searching or avoiding certain experiences to eradicate the suffering, and relax the contraction again. That process you describe is the natural way that leads the transition to the deep identity level change to ones True Nature, the Infinite Silent and peaceful/blissful Abyss of Pure Consciousness without location or any kind of objective appearance... When not finding IT (or Consciousness, or oneself), at some point the localization of consciousness dissolves, making every appearance (thought, feeling, cloud, tree, the whole world including ones "small self") just an appearance arising in the Infinite, silent & empty and not-personal Eternal Reality of Ones True Being, Infinite Consciousness, or Reality itself. (2) And when it is seen that even the "Understander" of this Nondual and Awake Realization is nothing more than a bundle of "understanding"-thoughts arising WITHIN THAT, then Full Enlightenment is finally seeing that there never was a separate-self besides an illusion, and nobody (besides) an Illusion actually woke up. Pure Infinite Consciousness/Being was there throughout, undisturbed, just containing some illusion-arisings. And yet, that Realization or waking up of that perspective of Indras Net makes all the difference in the dream of that perspective, finally dissolving the self-contraction/separate-self illusion even of the "Understander" of all of that for good. Selling Water by the River PS: (1) are the stages of dissolving the separate-self into nonduality, and (2) is going from Nonduality/Unity towards even relaxing/dissolving the "Understander"-separate-self-illusion of that into Infinite Consciousness/Reality itself. More on that in this post: PS PS: For Infinite Reality to create a separate-self/self-contraction/ego and to maintain it, there are just two emotions needed that have to regularly occur in cycles (not permanently, that would also kill the separate-self) : 1) suffering (in the meaning of non-satisfied-ness, or "non-bliss" , and 2) boredom. That starts all of the projects for getting back again the bliss via certain experiences (whatever that may be varies a lot). A bliss that would be there if not the separate-self-contraction would stop its flow via contracting. Of course, that can only be seen after having touched the natural bliss of ones True Being, because if that would be seen earlier the whole process would be shut off immediately. But if there is no technique available to just cut off the contraction/suffering, one has to stick to grasping for certain experiences, because that is then all one has...

I have done it several times but vaped, that it is very brief but the thing is not that you see that you are the source or god or anything but that the finiteness is completely broken and infinity is. there are no dimensions, there is everything, unlimited. it is impersonal and at the same time it is you. It is the reality from which you have removed the human suit that you wear. It is the perfection and the total glory of the infinite, it's what you are looking for, and that is what we are. It's still not something I can do at will. many times I do 5meo and it is interesting and I have insights, like to see the pattern of existence that is this experience, how it is created, but it is not the absolute total infinity. Only sometimes it happened, and it's like The Revelation. my goal is to be able to access that at will. The reason? In one side I don't want to be in the situation, let's say like a blind puppet, I want to open the code. see. And another reason more important: there is the real beauty. I tasted the real beauty when I was a kid and I remember very well .de real depth of existence. And little by little I m tasting it every days after many years disconnected and sad. If you have had that experience with LSD in which the void surrounded you and God in his solitude created this reality to forget his horrible situation, I think that the best thing you can do is 5meo until you completely break all the barriers, because stay at halfway is imbalance and depression

Allow me some further musings on the topic. In stage 3 Yoga of One Taste (One Taste = Nondual), Nonduality starts showing up. But Nonduality is not Impersonal Infinite Consciousness, because one can be in nondual Unity and still think that one is an "enlightened person", or any other crappy concept or self-identity for that matter. The ripening of Nonduality goes from stage 3 Yoga of One Taste to stage 4, Yoga of Nonmeditation. Nonmeditation, because the meditation has become so automized that the need for any separate-self agency feeling doing anything is no longer necessary and is discarded and also cut off. And then one is accident-prone to the possible accident of Enlightenment, Impersonal Infinite Consciousness realizing itself. At that stage, doing anything is just creating another cloud hiding the sun of ones true being, because doing anything would be another thougt/feeling-movement in Infinite Consciousness/Mind/Reality. And psychedelics are very nice for helping the whole process, and for exploring the Multiverse and other interesting stuff. But for transcending the last subtle separate-self-identity-arisings (subtle separate-self thoughts and feelings), and cutting off the sometimes arisings-non-bliss-feeling-bad-arisings (in other words: suffering) that are a part of the separate-self-package, I have yet to see one case (just a single one would be very interesting) where that has been done mainly on a stable basis/outcome in daily life with only psychedelics. That can be very well had with meditation practice. Meditation: Actually, from all I have seen, getting rid of all the clouds of the separate-self takes a long time in certain states (boundless, timeless infinite consciousness, nondual and the separate-self already nothing but a feeling of "individuality", some "nothing" watching the nondual totality), 100s of hours. Maybe 1000s. For most practitioners at least, including yours truly. On the stage 3 and 4 of the stages of Yoga of One Taste and Yoga of Nonmeditation alone (and these are not boring or annoying sitting meditation hours by then, but blissful and wonderful hours in daily life in something called Post-Samadhi-Meditation (or off the pillow meditation) in the book). And in that 100s or 1000s of hours subtle separtate-self identities/arisings get spotted, seen (subject->object), transcended and cut off. And I can assure you, oh boy, these are sometimes really sneaky and subtle. When all of that is transcended, the sudden Deep Identity Shift/Understanding can happen. "Yes, there is nothing else than THAT, and "my" essence is that, and what "I" thought I was was just a movement/arising of thoughts/feelings/centers within THAT. My True Being is all of Reality. But nothing specific. No separate-anything. The whole enchilada without center and core". But its not a elaborated thinking. It is Infinite Consciousness UNDERSTANDING/REALIZING itself, and there is nothing else than THAT, never possibly could be. The understanding in thought-form gets elaborated LATER, after Infinite Consciousness/Reality has understood itself, the nature of the world and its own nature (nondual). Psychedelics: bring a lot and strong forms of the Awakened States (nondual, infinite, mere appearance, and a lot more). States that one would only get by meditation if already very empty, or the separate-self-arising (thought/feeling)flow already cut a lot. So the states are very awake/nondual/infinite, but the separate-self-arisings is still colouring the experience. Although they can also be very subtle/empty at that state. And that is my little theory that explains all phenomena and examples I have seen so far: There is just not enough time and deeply cut-off/transcended separate-self-arisings in psychedelic states to cause that deep Identity-Level Shift of Full Enlightenment. And often, and maybe even much more problematic than the point just mentioned, there is a lot of nonduality/Unity in psychedelic states but a lot of separate-self-feelings/identites/... still left. Not a pure and impersonal Nonduality/Unity, but rather a Unity loaded with not-so-impersonal-stuff. And that doesn't fully count as these 100s or 1000s hours mentioned above, because they may be not so flashy consciousness/awakened, but are already quite nondual/Unity and very very impersonal/empty/nearly-no-separate-self still left. Only last fragments, being dissolved as time goes on. Short form: Meditation: Unity/Nonduality/Awakened States only when very large parts of separate-self-arisings (thoughts/feelings) are already gone/transcended Psychedelics: Lots of Unity/Nondual/Awakened States EVEN with separate-self-arisings (thoughts/feelings) in large parts not seen trough, even with the help of the psychedelic. Full Enlightenment: And for the sudden Deep Identity Level Shift of Full Enlightenment the separate-self-arisings/thoughts/feelings need to be ALL seen through/Transcended/cut off (which at the same time is also a huge boost of Nonduality/Awakenings, making the whole field an infinite nondual groundless mere appearance field hovering within ones timeless true always here Being, and Infinite Awareness Space with separate-self-center/Individuality fully gone. Just THIS). In Full Enlightenment, there is no agent left that is still believed, no center. So one IS Reality itself. And literally everything that could ever appear is a manifested/imagined arising/appearance, imagined by "the" Infinite Mind/Consciousness. And that "Mind", or Reality, dreams and is deluded until "It" realized there is only itself, watching itself, fooling and believing itself in endless appearances. If there is "someone", or arisings of a "you" that thinks "it" is enlightened: Welcome, that is another illusion-layer (as Leo correctly points out). It is maybe an Enlightenment (Nondual Unity with the Infinite Void), but not Full Enlightenment. And for the impersonal aspect: Sounds horrible, in practice its wonderful: One is this life "oneself", next life maybe life something else completely: Different personality, different body, Human, Alien, whatever. Impersonal Consciousness open up exactly that. Like dreaming being someone/something else at night. But the price of transcending this specific bodymind has to be paid. And since its only an illusion, only has some fear-defense-mechanism BEFORE the Gateless Gate of waking up to ones True Identity, Infinite Impersonal Consciousness, or Reality itself. Water by the River

I agree that some Awakenings can't be had without psychedelics. And that what you call Alien Consciousness is for sure cutting edge. And I do consider you a pioneer, and have read so far most of what you wrote, and watched most of your videos. "Alien Consciousness is completely beyond everything those Buddhists understand or have ever achieved." That I don't know, since I don't know what every Buddhist has achieved. But it is very well possible what you write, since they didn't have 5-MeO and other stuff. They had psychedelics [ Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana ], but not all what is available now, and not pure. But some exploration they did: https://www.psychedelicsangha.org/paisley-gate/2019/5/8/the-supreme-array-scripture-a-psychedelic-stra-for-buddhist-psychonauts-pp3zz , Yet, I consider Full Enlightenment becoming that Ultimate Reality as a Deep Identity level shift, with no more filters of the separate-self not seen through or covering that Realization/Deep Identity Level shift, no more filter on any of these Awakenings/Enlightenments. True Self, because every being is that already, with some illusion-clouds on top. Not projecting Absolute Reality on separate-self remains, but pure Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. And since that brings bliss and liberation in daily life. I consider it highly valueable. Summum Bonum [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summum_bonum ] So lets continue exploring and awakening to ever higher, larger and more encompassing [Alien] perspectives in Indras Net of Reality, since that is one of the reasons why we are, and one of the reasons God is playing that game/Lila. I just propose doing that from a consideration of the basis of the Summum Bonum mentioned above. Considering that suffering = continued search for further experiences/understandings/realization and end of suffering = resting in ones Deep True Identity as Reality itself, there is a "little" pointer given by Reality via suffering on that issue. Specifically: Placing the importance/value of Alien Consciousness on the same level as striving for Full Enlightenment, i feel fine with that. As long as the Alien Consciousness doesn't drag home some less-than-healthy consequences. Why? Because the paths for both goals go towards more Consciousness, not less. They run parallel, or at least normally not opposed if one doesn't get lost in these Alien Awakenings. Which probably can be avoided. Placing anything higher as the striving for Full Enlightenment is in my perspective choosing suffering, which is not a permanently sustainable strategy. That is the only reason why I am writing all of this. Besides that, I am a big fan Leo! The world needs more people like you. The more pioneers we have, the faster the Wild West is explored. And the faster we know where the rattlesnakes are hiding, which branch-off of the path leads to Death Valles and which leads to California. Water by the River

Let me try to answer your questions as brief as possible. That is challenging, because the Mahamudra system is technically very complex with many stages. I like to compare Zen/Theravada to cutting a tree with an axe, while Mahamudra is something like a forest harvester: The axe was available already in stone-age and worked, robust and slow. The forest harvester needs precise handling and thorough understanding & training, but is waaay faster. Anyway, lets try the impossible at least roughly. Here is my main thread of the explanation on Mahamudra in the Pointing out the Great Way style (Daniel Brown, 600 page book, around 200-300 pages on the juicy main-practice-stages of Mahamudra). To give you an idea/feeling (not really possible to do in brief, but I try): The description of two main steps: Stage 1 of 4, Skill of Recognition Stage 3 of 4, Yoga of One Taste (One Taste = Nondual) Lets start with Stage 1 of 4, Skill of Recognition It is a "High-Speed-Search-Task into Nature of thoughts, into the "Unfindability/Emptiness" of thoughts. They evaporate when looking into their nature. The nature of every emerging thought/concept, emerging out of Infinite Consciousness/Absolute Reality): And the nature of thoughts is its unfindability: Thoughts have no location, they are "made"/essence out of Infinite Consciousness. Thoughts dissolve when looking into their nature (Aware Empty Infinite Consciousness). One can never "find" a thought. They dissolve when looking into their essence. They move within onself, and dissolve when looking into them And that process/phenomenon is used. and with that cutting off (=Trekchö), since its nature is empty Infinite Consciousness/Suchness. Consciousness literally stops the thought then. At one point when one is fast enough, one sees the order of emergence IN the Infinite Mind is Understanding or just some other cause Thought emergence (fully formed, fully emerging in mili-seconds, but not yet "elaborated-out" over several seconds) being elaborated out over a part of a second to several seconds) And step 3 doesn't happen then. It is cut off. THAT is was brings Awakened States (nondual, boundless, basically if done fast enough. The thought "capsules" start emerging faster and faster then, 10-20 thoughts capsules per second+, and at some point Awareness stays "on top" of even that. That is where the magic starts (Nonduality begins developing, and the mindstream can get silent, bliss starts flowing. A very discrete and "hard" psychological process). And that happens in the beginning phases still on the pillow, but can also happen very much in daily life when intensive thought activity is not necessary. Later, it becomes also possible with sophisticated intellectual/creative thinking, when Awareness has become strong enough to stay lucid THROUGH the thought-elaboration. No longer hypnotized, the creative/intellectual happening within oneself on auto-pilot. Awakened Awareness and its Infinite Intelligence tends to take over, the separate-self/ego gets out of the way. That makes it also much more effective, since the ego/separte-self tended to act as a filter. From this Awakenened Awareness all intelligence and creativity comes from anyway, that is why creativity is so highly valued and pleasurable. This Awakened Awareness is the source of bliss anyway.... So, then the next step described in this post (Stage 2, see link above, jumped due to the specific question of Leo for "daily" practice: Stage 3 of 4, Yoga of One Taste. One Taste = Nondual boundless consciousness. Getting that into daily life. When enough proficiency of creating lucid states with this High-Speed-Cutoff is generated, the Awareness/Lucidity doesn't get lost when thinking. It stays. And with it the Awakened States. And then daily life starts getting nondual, especially if no academic thinking is necessary (still large parts of the day). With academic style thinking/creative thinking, it takes more Lucidity/Training, but is doable. 2nd TOPIC OF THIS POST: God-Realization in your words, or "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality." And this (Yoga of One Taste) brings us then to the "base camp of Full Enlightenment", the "jumping platform" where Full Enlightenment can happen (some of which main aspects you refer to with God Realization): Stage 4, Yoga of Nonmeditation. I have written elsewhere about it, see link above. The Nondual Stages of Yoga of One Taste would get confirmed in other traditions (Zen for example) as Enlightenment/Satori/Kensho. But not Great/Full Enlightenment, or God-Realization in your wording. That is an "accident", for which Stage 3&4 make accident-prone. I agree with you that Emptiness/Void is neither God Realization nor Full Enlightenment, where also that "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality" is realized. I am starting more to understand why you emphasize that in your language/system of experience, and I agree on the importance of it. In Zen, there is a differentiation between just shallower Enlightenments (Kenshos, Satoris) into the empty nature of all appearance, or into emptiness. The separte-self can still be very alive then. The Full Enlightenment on the other side, the total dissolution of the separate-self, leaves one with exactly that realization: "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality." Although there is no more you, nor God, but Reality itself becoming consciousness OF itself IMAGINING itself as all there ever could be. This Enlightenment is probably between 10-50 less common than the real thing of Full Enlightenment. Probably that is why you are so annoyed with the large majority of Buddhist Enlightenments (either contemporarily claimed or described in literature). Let me give you four examples of that differentiation (I could give many more, but that would blast the post. Ok, I admit, its already blasted and way too long... forgive me). 1) Huang Po https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huangbo_Xiyun "One Mind Huángbò's teaching centered on the concept of “mind” (Chinese: hsin), a central issue for Buddhism in China for the previous two centuries or more. He taught that mind cannot be sought by the mind. One of his most important sayings was “mind is the Buddha”. He said: All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists [red by me]. The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient beings.[8] He also said: To awaken suddenly to the fact that your own Mind is the Buddha [Nothing exists beside IT=God=Reality=True You], that there is nothing to be attained or a single action to be performed – this is the Supreme Way.[9]" 2) Yogachara school https://integrallife.com/toward-fourth-turning-buddhism/ "The very notion of the “not-twoness” of Emptiness and Form opened the door, as we briefly mentioned, to other even “stronger” versions of nonduality or (metaphoric!) Wholeness, one of the most prominent being the Yogachara, introduced by the half‑brothers Asanga (more of a brilliant innovator) and Vasubandhu (more of an acute synthesizer). Another name for their school—Vijnaptimatra—is usually translated as “Mind-only” or “Representation-only.” The point here is that the “not-twoness” of Emptiness and Form allowed some philosopher-sages to come up with other terms for the “Form” that was seamlessly conjoined with ultimate Emptiness or Shunyata, one of them being “Mind” itself. The idea was that “Mind” itself was the same as Emptiness—the Yogachara philosophers were adamant that they were talking about the same “unqualifiable” Emptiness that Nagarjuna was, but by also referring to it as “Mind” they were giving (some would say metaphorically, some would say absolutely) a type of compass that would help relate ultimate Emptiness to an everyday reality everybody was aware of (such as, namely, the Mind). The Zen saying, “The everyday mind, just that is the Tao (ultimate Truth)” is a good example of this type of Yogachara thinking. And it showed clearly how one could “bring everything to the path,” starting with your own, simple, everyday awareness. This opened so many other doors—especially Tantra and Vajrayana—that it is referred to as “The Third Turning of the Wheel of Dharma.” Buddhism has philosophically run a long way. Hinayana didn't even have the full Nondual Realization of Absolute Reality, Nagarjuna made Madyamaka (nothing can be said about Ultimate Reality). And where did it end? The philosophy all which pretty all sophisticated Tantric Buddhism system rely on? MIND-ONLY, Yogachara. We need to at least differentiate the 2500 year system of Buddhism into these development steps. If not, we are fighting with a "fossil-philosophy"... 3) The Supreme Source, one of the main texts of Dzogchen (quite close to the Mahamudra above, Brown uses Dzogchen and Mahamudra elements together): on which breathtaking beautiful absolute perpective you agreed: There is gold in Buddhism, Full Enlightenment, God Realization. And tools to make it stable in daily life. The later systems of Tantric Buddhism, but also Mahayana, have at their philosophic core Yogachara or Madhyamaka (I have written on that elsewhere). These two qualifications of Ultimate Reality are in line with what you call God Realization. 4) In Zen 3 pillars of Zen, Kapleau: Some quotes from that book: "ROSHI: With a first enlightenment the realization of oneness is usually shallow. Yet if one has genuinely perceived, even though dimly, and continues to practice devotedly for five or ten more years, this inner vision will expand in depth and magnitude as one’s character acquires flexibility and purity." The story of Bassui: "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality." "This way is no other than the realization of your own Mind. Now what is this Mind? It is the true nature of all sentient beings, that which existed before our parents were born and hence before our own birth, and which presently exists, unchangeable and eternal. So it is called one’s Face before one’s parents were born. This Mind is intrinsically pure. When we are born it is not newly created, and when we die it does not perish. It has no distinction of male or female, nor has it any coloration of good or bad. It cannot be compared with anything, so it is called Buddha-nature. Yet countless thoughts issue from this Selfnature as waves arise in the ocean or as images are reflected in a mirror. To realize your own Mind you must first of all look into the source from which thoughts flow And: Realization Emptiness, or Void, IS NOT YET FULL ENLIGHTENMENT: "In this propitious state deepen and deepen the yearning, tirelessly, to the extreme. When the profound questioning penetrates to the very bottom, and that bottom is broken open, not the slightest doubt will remain that your own Mind is itself Buddha, the Void-universe. There will then be no anxiety about life or death, no truth to search for. In a dream you may stray and lose your way home. You ask someone to show you how to return or you pray to God or Buddhas to help you, but still you can’t get home. Once you rouse yourself from your dream-state, however, you find that you are in your own bed and realize that the only way you could have gotten home was to awaken yourself. This [kind of spiritual awakening] is called “return to the origin” or “rebirth in paradise.” It is the kind of inner realization that can be achieved with some training. Virtually all who like zazen and make an effort in practice, be they laypeople or monks, can experience to this degree. But even such [partial] awakening cannot be attained except through the practice of zazen. You would be making a serious error, however, were you to assume that this was true enlightenment in which there is no doubt about the nature of reality. You would be like one who having found copper gives up the desire for gold." Or: Not yet Full Enlightenment-Realization. "But even now repeatedly cast off what has been realized, turning back to the subject that realizes, that is, to the root bottom, and resolutely go on. Your Self-nature will then grow brighter and more transparent as your delusive feelings perish, like a gem gaining luster under repeated polishing, until at last it positively illumines the entire universe [infinite nondual mere appearance boundlessness of ones nondual limitless being then]." "You must understand that anything appearing in your consciousness or seen by your eyes is an illusion [imagined], of no enduring reality. Hence you should neither fear nor be fascinated by such phenomena. If you keep your mind as empty as space, unstained by extraneous matters, no evil spirits can disturb you even on your deathbed. While engaged in zazen, however, keep none of this counsel in mind. You must only become the question “What is this Mind?” or “What is it that hears these sounds?” When you realize this Mind you will know that it is the very source of all Buddhas and sentient beings. And that ends in Full Enlightenment: "keep asking with all your strength, “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present [they all have been expressions of this Infinite Mind of yours, of the only Reality there is or could be, dreaming up all these worlds]." There is nothing else than: "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality." And that becomes stable in daily life when there is no longer a separate-self, but only Reality. God. True Nature. Whatever one wants to call "It" then... And that Ultimate Reality is Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. "It" is both nothing/impersonal, but also everything there could be imagined. It is Reality itself. The True Core of each being. As long as something of a remaining separate-self projected on it, its not stable in daily life. The remains of that separate-self will also "colour" all higher insights/realizations. Bliss doesn't flow yet full time, so the suffering will make the being continue and refine anything that is not conforming to this Ultimate Reality, ones True being. Or according to Huang Po, The One [Infinite] Mind that dreams or imagines it all up all Reality. Water by the River PS: Ok, yours truly confesses: short is it not, the post.... But please don't hit me too hard, took some time to write, and I got plenty of other things to do also.

It's fantastic, you've been too lazy to shoot yourself in the foot while others spend their lives with "friends" who don't like them and are mean to them, others who spend their life with a partner who is with them because he hasn't found anything better and are constantly cuckolded and despised, others who spend their life in a job they don't really like for safety etc etc. You have more effective pellets. You can't fail because there's nowhere to go, of course we can declare that being unhappy/unfulfilled is a failure but you know very well that it is not in this semantics that we invoke the notion success/failure divide. You're just afraid of letting your libido swing into its "schizoid", rebellious position. What you say in Newspeak is "Hey, I'm supposed to have a shitty life by the pressure of a nebula of injunctions registered in my subconscious, but you know what I don't/no longer have the energy because about my traumas and other stuff! Tell me how to accept having "failed" and have the energy again to pursue a shitty life to cure my ego". Note how impersonal it sounds, both in substance and in form. Ps : I'm not trying to be conscending, it's just my way of expressing myself and loving, in case it's not clear. Not matter.

Hey @Leo Gura, while @Water by the River has gone to extensive length in several posts to explain and clarify his position on what exactly Absolute Consciousness is from his pov, I see you either repeatedly refuse his take on the Absolute, or you say in general that nobody knows what Consciousness really is. Could you then please clarify and precicely state for all of us what Consciousness fundamentally is from your perspective and where this differs from saying that in full enlightenment one moves permanently from being a body/mind in an objective world to being impersonal, centerless, empty, boundless eternal infinite consciousness floating nowhere, nowhen, nohow, with all traces of seperate self arisings distinguished, with all distinctions/differences collapsed until there is only life left onto itself. In regards to the above statement, if you say to become 'more conscious', do you mean you become conscious of more/other fundamental aspects of God (like empty, eternal, boundless, centreless etc.), or do you mean with 'more conscious' that you become conscious of the exact workings/mechanics of reality itself, like for example becoming conscious how exactly you create/will the entire perceptual field into existence?