outlandish

5-Meo-DMT etc are not shortcuts to enlightenment. They are just shortcuts to having an enlightenment experience - it's important to be clear about this difference. I don't think anyone is claiming that having a breakthrough 5-MeO-DMT experience is a way to get enlightened (actually, "getting enlightened" seems like such an absurd concept...). Like @Real Eyes said, your quote from the buddha doesn't contradict anything we're saying about 5-MeO-DMT, it's exactly complimentary to what we're saying. You literally can't talk about this fundamental mystical experience, I'm lying by trying to. But we can try anyways because it kind of points in the right way. Yes it's possible that the experience is a hallucination. It's possible that the buddha had a hallucination. It's possible this whole goddam reality is a hallucination. What's real what's not? The experience is a real, actual experience, whatever you want to call it, as real as it gets. It's an actual experience of bare naked, unconditioned reality. Maybe when monks sit for decades and experience unconditioned reality, it's a different unconditioned reality from the one you experience when your ego/I dissolves on 5-MeO-DMT. Does it matter? Maybe. I'd like to get to the thing without exogenous chemicals and report back. But no matter what, you can't step in the same stream twice. I want to be clear that I don't think of myself as an enlightened person. 5-MeO-DMT has not made me enlightened. I think I've had a taste of an enlightenment experience that I wasn't even sure was real or possible beforehand. Now I know that the thing all of the traditions point to is real, and it's propelled me to ask some deep questions in life.

Yes, that was the big surprise for me. Despite the I/ego being suspended, awareness remains at the bottom of it all. In a way that's all that's left. It's very challenging to describe or discuss though because it's the WHOLE thing. Words are categories that we put things into, and you can't separate out the whole from itself and put it in it's own bucket so that we can look at it and talk about it. Yet, amazingly, it is actually possible to experience the monad/god/pure awareness directly. But it's true what Plato said, when the ego returns and we come back to our default consciousness mode, the best we can do is reminisce and point in more or less the right direction. All talk about the subject is essentially lies. Some very advanced meditators/practitioners are probably able to glance back and forth between the two modes easily and rapidly, and thus better able to point in the right direction. It's not a mechanical process, there's no guarantee that 5-MeO-DMT will deliver you this experience on demand, but it's the most direct line to the mystical experience, or god, or kensho, or oneness, or universe, or whatever you want to call it , that I've ever come across. At best you can find the stillness at the bottom of your mind, step out of the way, and let it take you there.

Hi @ivandrade10 - It's nice to see that you keep an open and also skeptical mind to using psychedelics for growth. It's good to ask these questions before you decide whether or not to partake in using psychedelics! I used to be worried about negative long term consequences from psychedelics when I was much younger, and ended up doing a lot of research and deciding for myself that there is extremely little risk in using them. As I've gotten older I realize that I'm now in the position of being a "long-term user" of psychedelics. In retrospect I can see that they've been extremely useful in my life as tools for growth and self-realization, with no negative consequences. I've also met many people over the years who have been taking them for a long time and have also benefitted greatly from them. They're not for everyone, that's for sure, but the risks from testing them out to see are negligible assuming: responsible use no mental disorders adequate mental age and maturity correct substance (know your source, know your substance) In summary, I think we do have a definitive conclusion about them: they are safe, millions of people have used them and benefitted from them. They're still a real taboo in society and hard to talk about though, it's still just a tiny fraction of the worlds population who has experimented with this class of drugs. The taboo is beginning to melt a bit, but there's a long way to go when even on an ostensibly open-minded message board such as this one people seem to get there knickers in all kinds of twists over the subject.

I've spent some time in Iceland and hung out with locals there. It seems like the average person there takes it for granted that trolls and fairies are real, and also that the norse gods are/were real. The people I met talk about this stuff so matter of fact, it was sometimes hard to go along with these conversations without questioning it or bursting into laughs.. Strangely, I had a dream last night that trolls are real. In my dream it turned out that they were just plain old homo sapiens, but really ancient culture and gene pool, so they lived and behaved very differently from the rest of us.

I'm going to be a bit nitpicky here, but I feel it deserves being cleared up because it's a very common misunderstanding that magic mushrooms are toxic. I think it stems from a cultural idea that mushrooms = toadstools = poison that most of us are taught, and that underlying hunch biases us to think of magic mushrooms as toxic. Feeling nauseous from eating something isn't a proof of toxicity, our bodies can be tricked. Conversely, there are toxic things that we don't get nauseous from. There's aren't any real known toxins found in magic mushrooms, but the flesh of mushrooms is made of chitin which is undigestable to us humans - same thing that bugs' shells are made of. Also, magic mushrooms are full of serotonin agonist drugs (psilocybin etc), and our guts are full of serotonin receptors. So when you chuck a bunch of undigestible chitin in your belly, along with a drug that stimulates your guts, combined with a pretty damn foul taste, you can experience nausea or other GI unpleasantness. So in the end, it can be a good idea to chuck out the mushroom flesh and just extract the good bits in a tea, but when you look closely at it, the truth is more nuanced than a situation of toxicity.

That seems like a really roundabout way to do it. If I had gooey moist drugs I would put them in a sealed container with a powerful dessicant (making sure the dessicant doesn't come into physical contact with the substance) and just leave it in there for days until it was crunchy crispy dry. It would probably be super chunky by then so you might need to pulverize it again to break it up.

You shouldn't do anything about this, just sit. Zen is a paradox. When you think about attaining enlightenment, you already miss the point.

5-MeO-DMT is fine to measure on a typical mg accurate scale, so I mentioned that mostly in reference to more powerful substances, or for microdosing. But if you *did* want to do volumetric measurement with 5-MeO-DMT, you could use a solvent that evaporates easily, like ethanol to measure it out and drop it onto a glass surface. Then you evaporate the solvent and scrape the residual material with a razor blade to get an extremely precise dose.

I read the book as well and liked it. I think he's on to something, or at least it's a very worthwhile perspective to consider. My gut feeling is that he is pointing the light in the right direction to explore, but this isn't the whole truth. But it might bring us closer to "a" truth. I also detected a lot of ego from the author, which was a bit repulsive, but that doesn't invalidate his ideas. All in all, it seems like his branded idea of "biocentrism" is pretty darn close to what mystics have been saying for a long time, that awareness creates reality. I think he's mostly just framing that into a scientific context, and trying to promote the idea as a serious perspective for science to explore. Did the big bang create us, or did we create the big bang? He says the latter. I suspect it's actually both. I recommend the book, it's mind-expanding.

Using a scoop would be better than eyeballing, but it's not really good enough. A cheap ($20-$40 American Weigh Gemini-20 for example) mg scale will always be more accurate than using a scoop, because the density of the material varies a lot, depending on how fluffy, clumpy, grainy, sticky it is. Even from the same batch you could get a lot of variation from one scoop to the next. The guy on DMT-nexus might have had good results with his particular methodology, on his particular powder, but it's just not reliable in general. If you're exploring with something like 5-MeO-DMT, you owe it to yourself to have and use a scale. If you need to measure your doses down below the threshold of your scale's accuracy, you can measure out larger weight, and then divide it down using a solvent and volumetric measurement. This is called volumetric dosing.

This forum (and the PM system) should definitely *not* be for figuring out where to acquire drugs in my opinion. There are plenty of more appropriate places on the internet to reach out, just be creative and use google.

Leo Gura: serving up the finest trip reports on the internet!

The best way to start with psychedelics: Do your research, read up. Get clean, pure psychedelics of known origin from a trustable source. Use testing if necessary. If your psychedelic compound of choice is not accurately pre-measured for you, then make sure you do so yourself, using a milligram scale or liquid measuring techniques as the case may be. Start very very low to introduce yourself to the substance. Increase your dose one step at a time over consecutive sessions, with gaps in between. Many have launched their psychedelic career with magic mushrooms or LSD, those are so well established as being pretty damn safe and constructive. But there are many other psychedelics that would be excellent intros, including AL-LAD. It's great and easy, not to mention quasi-legal in many parts of the world. Have fun with the journey!

Yeah I can second that. I just completed the audio version of it (not sure if it's exactly the same as the book), and it's really great. Shinzen Young has a clear, real, honest, humble approach that will appeal to many on here. I will through the whole thing again, and read the book too, it's that good. Highly recommended.

I shudder to think of people dosing this stuff (or any drug) without measuring it accurately. Thanks for encouraging caution.

I knew about loosing consciousness, but I haven't heard of people dying from it. Do you know of people actually dying from it, or documented cases? It feels like it pushes the heart into overdrive, so if that increases as dose increases, I can see that getting risky. My intuition is that 35mg is way too high, but I've been more or less assuming a safety margin that's related to mushrooms and acid where the lethal dose is unknown, but orders of magnitude higher than the effective dose. Or I assumed it was more dangerous than that, but assumed there might be something like a 10:1 ratio. I'm pretty uncomfortable with a 2:1 ratio of ED:LD if you're right. Might not increase my dose beyond 20mg. Probably a good idea for us all to write down the dose on a piece of paper before you take it, or tell someone, just in case.

@MsNobody Are you taking any meds, or self medicating with any substances? There are many that will really disrupt your ability to trip. @Leo Gura why do you say over 35mg is getting into potentially lethal territory?

The AL-LAD threads at bluelight are a treasure trove of information: The Big & Dandy AL-LAD Thread - Part 1 The Big & Dandy AL-LAD Thread - Part 2 The Big & Dandy AL-LAD Thread - Part 3 The psychonaut wiki is pretty good: Psychonaut Wiki: AL-LAD Shulgin's entry in TIHKAL is classic and maybe the first ever reports on human bioassays of this substance: TIHKAL: AL-LAD And of course there's the trip reports on erowid: Erowid: AL-LAD reports

@Bombardini It's likely that you snorted too hard, especially if you felt it at the back of your throat and ended up swallowing a bunch of it. You mentioned "nostrils" - not sure if you literally meant that, but you are actually targeting the mucous membranes in your sinuses, not your literal nostril area that you can get your finger into. Some tips: cut the powder up even finer using a razor blade on a mirror or whatever is hard and smooth. I find a lot of the 5-MeO-DMT out there is a bit chunky/grainy and you can't absorb lumps as easily as fine dust make sure your sinuses are clear and breathing smooth. Blow the snot out of your nose if it's runny or anything Put the straw next to the hole at the back of your nostril insufflate *very* gently It's also possible that you're just a bit of a natural hardhead, and need more than most, or that your product is weak. I'd recommend trying the same dosage using the tips above before increasing your dose though. The energy movement in your chest sounds like 5-MeO-DMT action to me, maybe relax in on that. It's also possible that you missed the show somehow - 5-MeO-DMT is weird because it kind of seems like nothing's happening, because there are no classic psychedelic visuals, but then it's gets extremely profound, intense and cathartic. 20mg was a breakthrough dose for me, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be for you.

It's easy to tell when someone is enlightened, you just have to look for their enlightenment trophy. Enlightened people usually keep it in their living room, but the most highly enlightened people have a trophy room for all of their enlightenment trophies. They will be happy to show it to you!

Your message of caution is well warranted, and I too urge people to be very careful and respectful of this substance. Psychedelics are not toys! However, you are not completely correct in saying that nothing can prepare you, and that you can't know how you'll react. You can prepare for it quite easily if you're smart about it and diligent, and you can learn slowly how you'll react, step by step. Having the right information is key to being able to do this! For starters, having a solid meditation practice in place is a good foundation for a 5-MeO-DMT experience. The next step, once you're prepared to try 5-MeO-DMT, and have acquired some of known purity, is to acquire a milligram scale so that you can measure your doses accurately. Then, over the course of days, weeks, months even, you start working your way up slowly starting with very very small doses, gradually increasing them over time, and observing how you react to them. That's exactly how you prepare, and how to know how you'll react. Jumping into an unknown dose, thrust on you by a "shaman", in the middle of the blazing heat of the day is a reckless way to approach 5-MeO-DMT, in my opinion.

Hi Dodo - Great questions. I'm no master but I'll do my best to help answer them. Re: The cracking and peeling - I don't necessarily describe it that way, but there is definitely different level/depth that I've gotten to ("peeled") with 5-MeO-DMT than I ever have gotten to endogenously (without using external drugs). Yet, it was familiar turf that I can tell I was already heading towards, that I'd felt whispers of over the years in meditation, and that is surely well trodden by great meditation masters. Come to think of it, cracking and peeling is a pretty good description. I don't think these experiences are unique to users of 5-MeO-DMT, I sincerely believe that these experiences are fully accessible as part of the spectrum of endogenous human experience. Just look at the descriptions of mystical experiences in all of the worlds great religions, particularly the ones with strong meditation traditions, and compare it to the classic 5-MeO-DMT experience. Obviously the great historic bodhisattvas etc. weren't taking 5-MeO-DMT. It just takes a lot more time and effort to get there without it. Even with using 5-MeO-DMT there's no guarantee of experiencing this unitive experience, but it certainly is a huge helper in getting there. People have also used other psychedelics to get there, but personally I've sampled a great many psychedelics over the years and have never come across one that is such a direct line to god. Should one seek for this experience? Yes, if you're compelled, and if so, do it with great determination. Paradoxically, try not to be attached to it as a goal - it's not something you can grab on to, it's not an achievement, you don't get to keep it any more than you get to keep any other experience. And you really don't need it. It is essential - in the deep sense of the word, because it's the most essential (fundamental) mystical experience. Note that I'm not saying take 5-MeO-DMT specifically, it's up to you if you do it with or without 5-MeO-DMT. Or don't seek it, because like you said, all is perfect and there's no me to seek. This is the paradox. There are plenty of people out there who've had enlightenment experiences, especially those who got there using psychedelics, and then go back to being arseholes treating the people around them shitty, treating the world shitty, maybe even worse because now they have the huge ego trip of having become "enlightened". What would be the point in that? Does that sound like true enlightement? So don't put this thing on a pedestal too much. While I do believe it to be the essential mystical experience - in the sense of it being the deepest kernel, not in the sense of "thou must have this experience" - it's certainly not the whole picture of spirituality.

@Be Yourself I'm close friends with very many scientists and medical professionals, and I'd definitely say that most are taking, or have taken psychedelics. So don't worry, that's already happening It's just something that still has a lot of stigma around it so very few people talk about it publicly. But some do! And I agree that there's a lot more to be discovered psychedelic is used as a tool to study within, than a thing to give to someone else and study from without. Edit: I can't wait until politicians start taking psychedelics

That's some contagious laughter! My new role model.

5-MeO-DMT has changed everything and nothing for me. Sorry for the cliche sounding answer, but it's true and I'll try to explain. It's given me a direct experience of what great philosophers, meditators etc. really mean when they talk about the fundamental unity of existence. This is no longer a theoretical concept. But this hasn't changed anything for me. I don't experience life with some kind of new constant awareness of this undivided wholeness, or some kind of new fantastic zeal. I'm right back to living reality the way my meat-machine is wired; categorizing forms, differentiating self and non-self, liking things, disliking things, etc etc. But at the same time, when I really investigate my perspective before/after, I am more aware of this unity. It feels closer and more palpable. But does that change anything? Not really, this is such a fundamental thing, it doesn't really change anything in the world of forms. But infinity! A side effect of 5-MeO-DMT is that I've become more voraciously hungry to investigate some philosophical topics, physics, and I'm meditating with a lot more determination. Another side effect has been that I've become more aware of my physical posture and how it affects my body energy. This has been a very positive thing for me. I'm frustrated that it's a bit difficult to talk about 5-MeO-DMT with people. It's something I'd like to be able to share, but there is a lot of stigma around using drugs in general, and also it's hard to tell who would benefit from it, and for whom it would be altogether a bad idea. So I mostly just keep my mouth shut, except like here. I'm very impressed with Leo for speaking openly and publicly about it. I think a best case scenario is if awareness around this substance gradually increases, and it remains possible to acquire, hopefully the people for whom it will be helpful will naturally be drawn to it.