Zen LaCroix

I don't think you realize when guys care too much they can act weird and needy for validation. When a guy doesn't care he can be more casual and laidback in his interaction with women. When i say "don't care" I mean not caring about not getting rejected or getting validation from the woman. This way the guy can just talk to the girl as a human

I didn't mean it like that! What I am saying is you're gonna talk to one girl and make your wife most likely. You're most likely not gonna just talk to walk one girl and make her your girlfriend. Even if you aren't thinking about numbers like that generally to meet women there's a lot of socializing going on. You're meeting lots of people in general. So at some level its a numbers game since you're gonna be meeting lots of women

I don't think you realize that when guys really care they act weird. It's when a guy doesn't really care that he can be charismatic, social and just normal Also its not about acting like its a numbers game because it is a numbers game. But thats not the end all be all

Doing the approaches is playing the game. If you're not approaching you're not even playing the game

It was nice to hear everyones perspective. Basically what I've gotten is that because the pursuit of sex is a survival based activity that's what makes it low conscious. But that doesn't make it an inherently bad thing. We all have survival needs and its our individual choice to live the type of lives that we want anyway

Lots of women enjoy sex that is rough and degrading both physically and verbally where they are made to feel like a sexual object

Of course they're thinking with their dicks. Pick up is about getting sex. We are not approaching women to read the bible with her Women also pursue men sometimes just because of the way that man looks. Women objectify too. Have you seen the way they react to "Magic Mike" and those Chippendales shows in Las Vegas I've realized everybody has different levels of ethics and what they consider bad or good. I feel as though as long as you are not forcing a girl to do something she doesn't want or using blackmail or coercion then your actions are ethical

Not necessarily true. If a guy doesn't know how to talk to women and can't get a girlfriend he has to learn

Is there something wrong with having a goal and going after it to realize that goal. How else will you become a self-actualized man?

You can call them loud shitty clubs but you know that you feel fear and discomfort in those environments

I just don't think you have to be a dishonorable person to get laid. I also don't do any consciousness work either so take that as you will It's better to be "that guy" who gets lots of girls than to have some belief that you have more integrity and honor than those guys. Even when you low key wanna be those guys and have all the sexual experiences that they're having

@Leo Gura I was curious about how Leo thought pick up was low conscious. I personally have no problem with it. I think theres ways of going about that are negative and ways of going about that are positive And if being a charismatic sexually appealing guy that gets a lot women. A guy that women are drawn too. A guy that makes women giggly. A guy that makes women wet. The guy that gives women great sexual experiences. If being this guys is considered low conscious then I actually have no problem whatsoever being low conscious. In my opinion these guys are winning in life

You assume that women want commitment when a lot then want to sleep around and have some fun. What do you think "hot girl summer" and "hoe phase" are referring too

There is some manipulation involved but thats not the bread and butter of pick up. One could also argue what makes something manipulation vs persuasion?

Leo I’ve heard you say that pick up is a low conscious activity and I don’t understand how? Most men want to sleep with girls and if they could they would sleep with a lot of them. Thats why famous people sleep with a lot of girls. The athletes in college threw parties and slept with lots of girls. Are the really good looking men, men with really good game and natural charisma who are naturally able to sleep with lots of women low conscious too? Are you saying sleeping with lots of women is low conscious or just the guys who have to learn this? I feel like it forces you to have strength as a man to force yourself to do those approaches. It requires a growth mindset. Requires a lot of letting go or endurance to consistently get your ego crushed. To experience these negative emotions when getting rejected and to overcome them to the point where you don't care anymore. I’m not there yet. It really forces you to be consistent Learning how to socialize with groups and relax in nightclubs and bars with groups. Dealing with groups of people, leading them, holding their attention, dealing with a person in the group who may not like you and similar obstacles. Doing whatever you can to pull the girl and not let obstacles get in the way. It forces you to get over any type of sexual repression. It completely changes the way you think and relate to women It takes so much growth and discipline to get good at this. The few guys I’ve met who learned to be good with women definitely stand out from the average man. They seem so alive, so awake as a human being. The best guy that I know was able to use his skills to move in with a former tech startup CEO even though he had no prior business experience. He was able to learn about business from that guy If pick up really is low conscious what am I missing? And what does it say about they women they sleep with?