Jungian_Proxy

This is a direct contradiction. If "absolute truth" is inherent in the present moment (with which I agree), then by definition it is there in any moment. Meaning the situations of someone sitting there drunk, someone sitting there high on DMT and someone sitting there sober are exactly the same as far as the amount of "truth" to be found in them is concerned. Therefore, whatever the subjective experience of an individual on drugs may be, it is not closer to truth than any other experience.

You are welcome to tell me what you want to discuss. I cannot guarantee you help though. Cheers

In these desperate times, we could all use some new ideas about what values society and schools should be structured and based around. Luckily, Dennis Prager has hit the DMT hard and gained some valuable insights.

Your answer is well crafted, logically sound, not at all a ramble and a pleasure to read. Despite all the "spiritual" talk going on here, true (at least) stage yellow differentiated takes like this are the exception (not judging, just acknowledging). Sometimes stage turquoise is seen as some next level, otherworldly, transcendental whatever thingy.. But most fail to realize that just like for example the bodily, domineering self-expression of stage red will eventually form a collective as stage blue, which reigns in the red impulses with absolutism, hierarchies and rules; stage yellow thinking will naturally develop into turquoise (a collective stage) by living the ideas outward and forming a sort of "society". Not by focusing on the individual journey forever. Cheers

https://www.politiscales.net/en_US/results/?t0=55&t1=12&comp=100&s0=50&b1=14&b0=26&c1=10&c0=43&e1=33&e0=29&j0=48&j1=19&p0=31&p1=10&vega=100&m0=52&femi=29&reli=67

I'd ask: "Do you see the world as a model?"

I'm not american, so this does not affect me. (The election process I mean, the presidency will obviously affect everyone.) I will say though that from an observer's point of view nominating a visibly demented person who is now accused of literal sexual abuse (not just harrassment) is simply asking for defeat. If the DNC really cared about beating Trump above all else (electability), Biden would drop out right now.

Just curious - What does that reaction mean? Do you think my anger was misplaced here - and if so, why? What did you think about this whole thread in general?

Yeah, this thread is quite old, but I don't care. Just stumbled upon this by accident and holy fuck! The amount of smugness displayed in this thread by the self-proclaimed empathy experts is unbelievable. Acknowledging your own development is BY NO MEANS a lack of humility. These people who are so convinced that they are beyond the ego whereas someone like OP is just stuck in her issues are pretty much the biggest spiritual egomaniacs I've ever had the displeasure of meeting (and that means something). Someone like this talking about humility is an absolute fucking joke! In fact OP was very likely more spiritually attained and humble than most of the responders. And some of those are moderators here. Seriously considering deleting my account and getting the fuck outta here over this. And yes, you can call me "triggered" or whatever if you are an immature moron. Cheers (not really)

You cannot force growth. Egoic internal effort is antithetical to the open and perceptive state you (ideally) rediscover through meditation. Internal effort will lead to "external" stagnation. And spiral dynamics is about the level of complexity with which you can/do perceive the "external" world. Therefore development through force cannot happen. Maybe try to determine at what point in life you were at what stage. Read some detailed descriptions. Just a suggestion: Have you considered stage green? It is a stage that is often open to spiritual ideas, but in a more "ritualised" or "culturalised" way (like a modern lifestyle choice) and does not fully "get" it yet.

Great wording. Could not have said it better.

Hey there, "Strong Beliefs" are the opposite of spirituality, not the "materialistic paradigm", which is just one specific example of such a belief. If you are juggling around beliefs and taking them seriously, you are in a state in which I wouldn't make important decisions. Deal with the internal dogma first (it goes hand in hand with the insecurity). If you then still feel like doing it without insecure motives, go for it. Cheers

Are you sure they are even at stage orange? Stage orange can certainly be very competitive and argumentative. And since it is an individualistic stage, it doesn't like restrictions. (Especially not the ones from stage green that directly evolved from stage orange and therefore is very well aware of its problems.) However, when stage orange people argue, they usually do so mostly with (assumed) empirical facts and "intellectual" (but not necessarily academic) arguments. Using the authority of age and experience seems more like stage blue to me. (Which is a collective stage as opposed to stage orange.) Also, the comments about survival and what parts of the world are responsible for something (territorial and nationalistic thinking) are in my eyes unlikely to be made by someone at stage orange (at least not without a structured argument supporting them). Remember, stage blue also doesn't understand green thinking and might perceive it as delusional and out of touch with reality. Just like for example a clan at stage purple might not appreciate or understand the institutions and systems of a stage blue society ("Why are they trying to organise shit all the time?! I'm just trying to secure my next meal! They are completely out of touch!"). If they really are still arguing for stage blue, then they have likely stagnated in their development at some point in their lives. This can happen through identification with the ego for the means of survival. The ego doesn't let you go anymore once you are "safe". When it has no reasonable objective anymore, it just spreads like a cancer, making one fight shadows and internal battles but stagnating in reality. There isn't really a lot you can do about that, for many people that's just the norm of life.

You said you tried to "self-actualize" for four years. Could you be a bit more specific about what exactly you did? I'm asking since you seem to think that your current state is a direct result from this.

@inFlow Yes, I agree.

Yep, feeling the same. I do have a pretty clear idea (or at least assumption) of what it's about. Don't have time to write it all out right now. (I still have a lot of important procrastination to accomplish in my life ) But I don't think it will be temporary, as in: It will probably not be there every single second, but continuously reoccur (if we are lucky). I think that's a very good thing and not at all zombie-like. The people you mentioned buzzing around would likely fit the description of a zombie much better. Though this "lack" of connection doesen't bother me as much as @inFlow above me. I'd just be happy to be experiencing this state; we are a very privileged minority. ;-) Cheers, Jungian_Proxy