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Posts posted by Nivsch
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@Yousif I dont understand this game of justified or not justified.
I wish nobody innocent would have been killed. Of course. But this is impossible.
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@Yousif I am not justifying anything, but you will have to bring here an another alternative to how to do this war.
Given hamas tactics, it is impossible to touch him without touch civilians too in most of the attacks.
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@Yousif Suggest a better way to eliminate hamas.
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@Yousif The sum damage could definitely be lower. But the casualities I think not.
I do not support the exaggerated material damage.
But again you must see the equation from both sides what you refuses to do.
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6 minutes ago, Yousif said:this is a pure example of human selfishness and bias, as long as we are safe, fuck everyone else around us.
I don’t really know how I would be able to go on living knowing I ruthlessly selfish/ biased/ vicious, and inhumane, i guess that explains why people ignore the facts as if they don’t exist.
This is how it seems when you don't understand Israel's long accumulated traumas and the fact that the existential threat for Israel frpm Iran's proxies is real and we have to take the other side's intentions seriously.
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Just now, Yousif said:Bro is so focused on the goal that the collateral damage of a whole city and thousands of innocent lives don’t even matter, he just looks the other way.
This is a goal that has tried to be avoided so many time during the last 2 decades and tried to be managed in every way possible.
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3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:There simply isn't a way to elimate every rat in a city. That objective fails to understand the nature of the beast.
Imagine if you made it your goal to kill every rat in your city? You would drive yourself and everyone insane. Rats must be managed, not eliminated.
At least to eliminate enough of them to the level they can no longer dominate in the area and will agree to release our hostages I believe this is a real accelerating factor to all of this war's character.
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1 minute ago, Thought Art said:@Nivsch I am not convinced it’s only a 5%, I think the numbers are larger. But, I’m only just figuring this out. I ask patience from you all. I am trying to see it unbiased and accurately which, I likely will fail at.
Its ok 🙌 I appreciate your approach. All good. The talking about setteling in Gaza are really an extreme margins for all I can estimate as an Israeli citizen listening to our media and conversations.
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@Thought Art Israelis dont want to live there except of 5% far right wingers.
We have built a fence in billions not in order to conquer Gaza after that. This doesnt make sense.
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8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:A good analogy here is if I was hunting rats with dynamite. And my goal was to completely elimate all the rats in your city.
Do you have a better way?
You can not bomb, but then your soldiers will fall like cards and in many thousands until the elimination of hamas will be completed (years).
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8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:If you compare the absolute numbers of civilians killed, the IDF numbers are insane next to Oct 7th. Not to mention the property damage.
But this war's goal is to eliminate hamas completely. This will necessarily take so much more time than the oct 7th attack. Then of course the damage will be far higher.
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14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:It's like if I was hunting for birds with sticks of dynamite and when the bird lands on your house I throw the dynamite through the window of your child's bedroom.
I dont know Leo. There are so many terror targets and booby traps to attack built over 18 years for IDF and we all know hamas tactic to get mixed with civilians. Maybe 1.5 : 1 ratio is unavoidable. Maybe it could be better. Maybe not. I really dont know the answer.
I think that if my government wanted to kill indiscriminantly the ratio was 20:1 (and not 1.5:1). I can agree that the exaggerated material damage is maybe affected by the fact that the goverment is very radical in relation to Israel's average. But about the casualities I tend to think differently than you.
IDF could not bomb anything but then invade a terror base full of traps in every neighborhood built especially for it for 18 years and fall like cards in front of it.
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44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:What does it say about your government if even with their best intentions they are not more accurate than terrorists?
By "best intention" you mean that my government really try to not harm civilians and still not accurate at all in the outcome? Or that you mean that it doesnt really try in your opinion because otherwise the outcome would be different?
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@zurew Absolutely agree with you.
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On 16.2.2024 at 1:00 PM, Leo Gura said:The civilian to combatant ratio on Oct 7th was something like 2:1.
Yes this is when this parameter get completely out of meaning, when we know that their intention was to kill anyone indisciminantly, including Israeli Arabs even, as long there are placed in Israel.
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4 hours ago, zurew said:I understand it organaized from the best (left) to the worst (right) when we want to see both the most positive blue and the most negative orange which is the best outcome.
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2 hours ago, zurew said:I already shared the video in this thread a while back, but I will share it again. He uses examples to demonstrate whats the problem if you don't use the per capita version of it.
So here is the video time stamped:
Thank you. I will read again all your main explanation and graphs.
By the graphs you added based on this formulation, Israel is placed in the extreme careful side of the scale if I understood it right, In terms of casualities.
Not in material damage there the picture is different.
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12 minutes ago, zurew said:You guys using and obsessively holding onto the civilian to combatant ratio and not the per capita version of it to prove genocidal intent, is still incredibly sad that you think thats a reliable way to assess anything.
Can you explain more?
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2 minutes ago, Raze said:16,000 of the dead are women and children.
If these numbers of Hamas are real, that would mean every single man killed and some of the women or children were all hamas.
I didn't understand your sentence here.
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2 hours ago, erik8lrl said:Ultimately, for a democratic nation with a large population to achieve a healthy democracy, the people would need to be able to make sense of the chaos, which is extremely difficult if not almost impossible for any individual alone.
Do you mean that the solution is to surrender to the chaos and sort of embrace it in a healthy way?
2 hours ago, erik8lrl said:Western democracy will increase government regulations and policies like media control and education to help people develop and sense make better and vote for good leaders and policies, and Eastern democracy will decrease government regulations and control as more people become developed and educated.
I agree this is needed. Western media in the future will must be much more regulated and be allowed to be used more freely according to the development level of the user. AI too will must be heavily regulated.
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1 hour ago, Yimpa said:Myself. I’m LGBT and my ass would go to jail just for expressing myself authentically in Russia.
Do you live in Russia?
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17 hours ago, Revolutionary Think said:Same. He never even mentions October 7th and how Hamas's goal is world wide Jewish genocide. Isreal also doesn't deliberately target civilians but, Hamas definitely does.
👍 Definitely
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@lina The radical right-wing government we have for sure influences and worsen the collateral damage, but every western nation attacked like oct 7th would react very similarly.
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@Karmadhi They are cherry picked as long as they site almost only radical exremists like Gideon Levi and the like, and when they overlook the fair context and dynamics between the sides.
in Society, Politics, Government, Environment, Current Events
Posted · Edited by Nivsch
By your logic we must not agree with the Allied attacks on Germany because then we justified murder of innocent. Sorry but this is absurd.