Nivsch

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Posts posted by Nivsch

  6. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

    There exists a video game called September 12th. It was released back around 9/11. It is a very simple game where you have to bomb terrorists walking around a dense Arab city. The game is structured in such a way that every time you bomb a terrorist you also kill a few innocent women and children, which spawns more terrorists that you must then bomb again.

    The point of the whole game is to play it until you realize that this game can never be won, and quit. And that is how the game is actually won.

     

    This really helps to pass the intuition of the uselessness of the only-force approach. The question is whether this is utterly useless OR that force can help but only when reinforced by a clear strategic plan and geopolitical moves in parallel to using force, what Netanyahu refuses to do.

  11. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    @Leo Gura Leo but what I just remembered now is that hamas has always increased the terror just after it smelled a breakthrough in the negotations between Israelis and Palestinians. A very famous example is Oslo agreement in 1993 when after it has been signed, a series of terrible suicide terror attacks has started as an attempt to fail it.

    Paradoxically, the most extreme parts of the Palestinians aren't interested in any of the oppression issues. Because if they were, they wouldn't try to fail the negotiations. 

    The "right-wing" of the Palestinians try similarily to the right wing of Israel to fail any negotiation and a chance to achieve a deal. So according to this, hamas is this right wing of the Palestinian side, who don't want anything other the total annihilation of Israel, and the occupation of the West Bank as it sees in 1967 doesn't matter to him at all, but 1948 is.

  14. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    11 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

    I apologize for the insensitive analogy; I hadn't considered that this could be a trigger when the Hitler comparison came to mind. Anyway, at no point did I trivialize the evils of the Nazi regime; that just wasn't relevant to the argument I was trying to make.

    Don't worry it wasn't that triggering but just not an honest analogy in general to anything Israel or other western country too does. Nothing personal about you. Just this analogy always appears and getting cheapened when belongs to a totally different world. I appreciate your answer. I agree with you that Netanyahu behaves badly in his retorics and in how he manages this war.

  15. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    Sorry but I cannot play this game. What western militaries caused to innocent people are not even 0.1% of the severity of what The Nazi regime has done in amounts, methods, level of freedom of civilians and the lingering of the suffering. If you have others and earthly analogies add them.

  17. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    Yes it did.

    Hamas is an externality of Israel's existence.

    This is the thing that Israelis are in denial about, which then leads to all sorts projections and of distortions of reality.

    But we know there were terror groups who did brutal things against Jews here even in the 1930's for example the one leaded by Amin El Husseini. 

    I think the most real dynamics is that there was a positive feedback back and forth between micro actions of both sides that created radicalization in both in thousands of small steps.

  18. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

    As unfair as it is to generalize Hamas on Palestinians. To regard any adult male walking down the street in Gaza as a terrorist and shoot at him. How unfair is that?

    Ok, Yes, this is unfair too.

    See its not that IDF does not try to differentiate between hamas and civilians because the ratio shows it does it better than maybe any other western military who fought with guerilla before.

    But for the honesty and decency, still not good enough, and IDF still not really adapted to a war against guerilla. The west is bad at it. And yes in the heat of the war and the fear unfair generalizations on the field are done.

  19. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    @Leo Gura But this is unfair to generalize it on Israel, because all that you wrote rooted in the rigid right-wing thinking and our method is, unfortunately, unlike in US, works in a way that 4 crazy knesset members can collapse the government if does not listen to them since any coalition must keep 61 knesset member (out of 120) to still be alive. 

    If you heard a big chunk of the average of most sane even Bibi governments (yes, just part of them) in the past and of course any party from the center or left wing (all of them), you would hear a totally different picture and that no one of them interested in any land Palestinians are sitting in. The chunk that really want to settle in Gaza is only the far right wing.

  21. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    2 hours ago, zazen said:

    pushed to their limit to act how they did on October 7th

    What caused them to start the second intifada in 2000 right after four different signed agreements between Israelis and Palestinians in the 90's and a negotiation process two months before that?

    2 hours ago, zazen said:

    If Israeli settlers one day killed 1'000 Palestinians would that justify making 2 million Israeli's homeless and restricting aid to them?

    I agreed this war is managed badly and for the honesty western militaries as a whole don't know how to deal efficiently with guerilla as we have seen from previous years.

    2 hours ago, zazen said:

    as if their existence isn't fuelled by the context of occupation and oppression of Palestinians.

    I agree about the problematic way Israel choose to manage the situation in West Bank. I think though that the beginning of the settlements project is understandable as I explained my thinking before about the dimensions of the WB in front of the central Israeli narrow corridor, but apart from this both sides are equally to blame in this dynamics and Israel has at least half of the responsibility.

    Brutal terror attacks though were way before 1967, so west bank is merely an another parameter but not the root of the terror motivation.

  22. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    6 minutes ago, hundreth said:

    Of course Israel's leadership is largely at fault for how this played out...

    But it is true that bots scanning for sound bites from far right voices in Israel paints a story not consistent with the population at large. If you grabbed far right sound bites from any nation, they would all look insane. 

    +1 ❤️

  23. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    @Karmadhi IDF came to Gaza to kill hamas only after did far reaching steps (including billion dollar fences) for years to avoid this war, wereas hamas came here to kill as many civilians as it can. As much as I think this war is done badly, the context is very different and this "symmetry" game is untrue.

  25. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    @Hatfort hamas and the fundamentalist sectors who support him are responsible for at least 50% of the consequences due to his obvious strategics and they as who let him use their schools, homes, mosques and hospitals as his bases and storages.

    The fact that Israel just fell into the trap US or Europe coalition fell into before and killed even more civilians in total, doesn't disturb many to draw artificially the picture as Israel was the only "bad" guy, but that is exactly why this double standart does not impress me nor any other Israeli here who know maybe better than you think how to differentiate between fair and hypocrite critisism.