NoN-RaTiOnAL

interesting topic! Ive been contemplating this for a while and when i just moved in with my girlfriend it was tough and i had all these thoughts of leaving cause its never gonna fit together. but as time passes we really managed to improve and live more harmoniously with our clashing needs and worldviews. we both calmed down, learned to communicate properly and learned to demand our needs in healthy and mature ways. in retrospect i do feel i made a huge progress - especially as a guy who grew up with very toxic parents who had a toxic relationship and that affected me deeply (my ways of relating to another and percieving relationships). so... i think probably if your goal is to go very deeply within yourself you would have to give up human relationships BUT reaching that state also requires alot of work prior to that, which is more about becoming mature psychologically than about awakening to your true SELF, make sure you handled those kind of needs and issues prior to going "all in" on awakening. If you feel like you still have this more basic work to do. than moving in together with a girl might benefit you more than what you percieve right now from a place of struggle. it all depands, of course, on where you are at right now. not a good analogy. you dont consume your girlfriend lol love is about respecting your need to be alone aswell - and that can certainly happen in a healthy relationship. even if you are living together. I know a couple living 50 years together, happy as can be, both spiritual teachers. both leading individual lives aswell as loving each other. its about creating a balance between I needs and WE needs.

OR He's just saying what he found out in his awakenings. i mean, if he found out we are all a part of giant banana and then he goes and says that in the forum with confidence then that is because there is literally no other way to verify this shit other than to awaken. he never said you should believe that blindly but to verify these stuff in your own experience if you dare. why shouldnt a men be confident about his own experience? should i not be confident around the fact i have pants? its just my experience.

meditation doesnt give you an answer. it gives you experience which then you still need to think about and integrate into your thinking life. so BOTH thinking and not thinking are important. dont place one above the other because that is BIAS. and osho like all other humans was full of bias.

IAWAKE

1. everything in life that you recieve too easily will become boring and unsatisfying. same goes for sex dolls and masturbation in general. you will always crave real intimacy with real women and this requires dealing with your insecurities and inability to enjoy some meaningless social activities. you dont want to just stick your dick inside a pussy, you want the thrill of the entire experience - youll never get that with a sex doll. 2. you are so full of rationalizations for your BS. if god has no limitation why wouldnt he be able to enjoy socializing?

Walter Russell if you read his books you can see he definitly awoke to GOD

there are different practices you can do with your emotions which will bring about different results you can "watch" them as though from afar and create some detachment between them and you, mainly to help release blocks and experience the emotion fully without resistance, this will help you to understand your situation, instead of your idea about your situation. you can also try to analyze the emotion to realize how youre creating it with your mind and ideas, this will help you become conscious of your unconscious process and choose to react differently.

pick a topic in life you find interesting research independently develop a higher perspective about it apply conclusions in your life trhough effort, will, love, passion CREATE AN AWSOME LIFE FOR YOURSELF

No. Nobody is "guiding" anywhere. you are your own guide, same goes for other people. what is occuring is we are living inside our own ideas about ourselves and currently, these ideas are shitty. if you find this statement currect - then create better ideas. and guide yourself and society to a better place,

experience is required in order that nothingness could experience itself. nothingness is all alone and its wondering "am i all alone?", it cannot know because there is nobody there to tell it that its all alone. to realize its own qualitites MIND must have an experience. through experience nothingness is not only being itself but also undestands itself, MIND = GOD = NOTHINGNESS = EXPERIENCE = UNDESRTANDING

everything could exist, nothingness included.

your logic is so backwards. this "still mind" is your idea of "enlightenment", which is fine but consider that its all just ideas in your mind. have you experienced this so called "still mind"? what if i claim all those people who tell you they reached this still mind using concentration techniques are lying to you? how could you prove me wrong? what if i claim all this path leads to is living the idea that you are nothing and there are even more profound ideas you can actualize? what if i claim a silent mind is not your true essence? dont you see its all just ideas in you mind? and you are clearly CLUELESS? if you do find out that you are CLUELESS you will finaly accept the fact you dont know and be willing to just try things out, seriously, because realizing this is the most important thing to you. Enlightenment could be anywhere, it could be in the place you least expected.

God is seeking to create an experience of himself, thats it. Love wants to be GIVEN, GIVING is the highest expression of LOVE, thats why.

by your logic, there is no indication mediation leads to enlightenment aswell. why would you need to sit and concentrate on your breath to realize something that is within you? you see the method is not the issue, but ones intention and seriousness, so one could use meditation, psychedelics or even a sex toy to achieve enlightenment. how can you even prove enlightenment happened? its pure subjectivity. people could lie about reaching this state all around you. why do you care so much to disprove psychedelics? just give it a try and find out instead of all this waste of mental energy.

How does God makes himself forget himself? could you provide some explanation about the process of forgetfulness or developing misunderstanding of one's Self? @Leo Gura

How does one crank it up or down? i suppose its just Gods WILL, which means I cant really do anything about it, Does developing deeper understanding leads to REMEMBERING eventually?

Hi from my understanding so far i can see a clear distiction between leo's teachings and the old school teachings The main goal is LOVE in both teachings in the sense that LOVE is just the total embracing and acceptance of reality(which is the SELF) and see it clearly and truthfully. In buddhism the main goal is achieved through making the mind silent and so non-reactive to experiences, which allows the mind to totally accept reality as it is. In leo's teachings this is achieved through a new level of intelligence which is beyond human. an intelligence that understands reality and SELF at such a deep and profound sense that there is no need for a silent mind. your personal mind is God and in IN LOVE with itself completely. The goal is LOVE. the debate is whether its achievable through "shutting OFF" or "turning ON" the mind. This is something to be explored personally to realize what is true. Am I getting this right?

Im struggeling for a while now with socializing. i find 90% of my interactions are ABSOLUTE BOREDOM and fakery.. meaningless ping-pong of bullshit.. when its funny i can enjoy it more but most of the time its not even truly funny, i just pretend to laugh to fit in.. im talking about relationships, family and even friends sometimes. im not the most social guy in the table for sure but also not the most shy and introverted guy. im definetly not a socialization ninja but i can handle conversations quite fine and without anxiety and shit.. i just dont truly enjoy it.. and lately i cannot stop myself from asking "why? why do i even bother? its so lame and full of phony people doing foolish things and concerned with banal things.. i dont find people and their opinions interesting so why do i even try?" could someone please enlighten me here with some higher perspective? why do you enjoy socializing? what do you find exciting about it? P.S oh lord save me from thy stupid misery and from foolish social activities

you can skip straight to the points of criticism or read the entire story if you'd like: So today i stumbled upon krishnamurti, a very interesting spiritual teacher. i felt deeply touched by his lectures about meditation. he is against any type of mechanical process which leads to an imagined destination such as "quiet mind" "stillness" "enlightenment" etc.. so he offers no technique and he views his talks themselves, which are preaching the acceptance of how much we do not know and how much BS we are fed spiritually, as the meditation itself. for him, if you dont meditate all day long, you are just fooling yourself. then i sat to do my mechanical meditation. I concentrate and concentrate.. and then become dull. than I notice that, wake myself up and become dull again. then i wondered "if im becoming dull during a process which tries to make me concious and alert - the procedure or the execution is probably low quality. WTF AM I DOING??" i stopped everything and took my phone and starter writing notes of criticism of my meditation practice and this made me actually more alert. i started watching myself very carefully, in a very alive and interesting sense. i became very open to new possibilities. i felt i was doing something my heart called for, and not something my head demanded to be done. i broke all the rules i created and i liked it. HERE ARE A FEW IMPORTANT INSIGHTS I REALIZED ABOUT MY MEDITATION AND WHY IM DOING IT WRONG: - in meditation im trying to notice when im starting to have a thought and immediately get back to my meditation objective. but this is completely backwords! this is a complete self deception. im doing this purely based upon the fact that somebody told me to do that and claimed he got enlightened. i dont even know what this means! what i know is Consiousness is life! it is intelligence! this is self evident. i will never reach awakening in a non-lively and mechanical manner. it negates the nature of MYSELF! my meditation is completely machanical. what makes maditation not mechanical is me being intrested in the process of self exploration, with an open mind, watching every thought carefully and making an intelligent decision whether i want to surrender that thought or not. based on my own current understanding of it and my values, THIS IS MEDITATION. THIS I CAN COMMIT TO DO ALL DAY LONG. - i notice that i get a sense of spiritual ego where i deny automatically every thought i have and especially those i consider "shallow". i get now that this is a form of shame that disconnects me from myself - which again is completely backwords! why wouldnt i allow myself to think about how to heal a rash i have on my skin for example? dont i want to be healthy? why is this considered to be a "distraction"? I AM who I AM. if im considering parts of myself as distractions i have to face the fact im starting to leave reality and move into an imagined state where i try to meet some IMAGINED IDEAL about myself instead of myself truly! I CARE ABOUT MY FUCKING RASH!!! <<<<<< and this is not a distraction at all. this is complete awareness of myself. considering it a distraction automatically is the distraction LOL. - i get annoyed if something bothers me during my practice. if my phone rings i get subtly angry at it. this again is backwords. i have nothing to get angry about because im always watching myself and aware of myself, no phone can ruin that. im only able to trip myself up based on some erroneus ideas i have about myself, one such idea is: meditation stops if you open your eyes. you will lose your gainz... LOL - i do tend to make too many explanations about myself during meditation and life, and this does become distracting, i dont have to explain myself to myself in order to be myself BUT I can if i find value in that, and sometimes I DO find value in that! but sometimes i feel it becomes too much and i'd like to give myself a break from all this analyzing - its exhausting! but also FUN! so its a balancing act - not an issue of surrendering everything completely. I AM MYSELF completely all the time. no need to give up doing things i value and love to become "my true self" < again, completely backwords. the main insight here is that spiritual ego is a much deeper phenomena than i imagined. im very sick. there is no way i should be other than what I truly am currently, and that is actual meditation! this i can commit to doing all day long with LOVE, CURIOSITY and an OPEN MIND. there are many sneaky ways of me trying to deny my reality to become an ideal version of myself which is based on stuff i read womewhere and believed. buddhism included. but these are all dead ends. games i play with myself. I TRULY get it now. thanks for reading

appreciate the comments, i thought more about it i do enjoy some social activities because there i actually hang out with people i enjoy their company (some of my close friends) and i can enjoy myself and be authentic, talk about things that actually make me laugh and share and listen to intersting stories. on the other hand, most interactions in my daily life (workplace, family especially, my gf family) are so freaking BORING i feel like my spirit is being molested to be this normal dude sitting there eating some rice and chicken and talking about daily news and i fucking hate it.. but what can i do? its family, i have some sort of obligation toward them. should i try be more authentic around people in the family and workplace? i think they just dont get it and judge me.. if i even declare i am doing spirituality in my life from their pov it would be "hi mama and papa, im mentally ill and in need of urgent help" maybe i should keep more distance and see them less often then i do now..

God will's the ego into existence then? the reason is for God to have fun' enjoy and get lost being a seperate silly human?

its funny how lots of folks here always like to make witty remarks which really dont help. are you trying to sound smart and above me? nice try. i was asking a question btw yeah you could frame it that way, i agree. do you agree you have two ways of getting there? one is making the "ego" mind quiet and one is reaching super-intelligence?

access concentration usually brings up a certain ecstasy in the body. if you dont, nobody can really answer it for ya.. its very personal.. you might need to experiment with the different suggestions you get. in my opinion, you're not there yet.. you should be buzzing with the intensity of your concentration to get to that bliss flooding your body. its not easy and i dont think being able to stay without thoughts for a minute or so is enough. you should just keep practicing. also, consider dropping that analyizing voice in your head thats counting how much time you spent in concentration and just stay concentrated - you need to drop everything ! dont forget that. dont make "not wasting your precious time" your goal here, but your self realization.

I hear leo too often talk about how many spiritual teachers are not god realized, but are there any teachers that ARE god realized? @Leo Gura

this is a problematic notion. i suffered alot from that aswell. you assert that you have control over this process but you dont. your growth has a certain pace, embrace it. nothing in the world will speed things up because everythings is already perfect as it is. you are already doing your best. meditation is not about the technique - its about diligence. you cannot just stop the ego, you slowly and gradually get rid of him. think back 5 years - you had alot of it didnt you? but now its alot less. so just be patient. be diligent. dont give up. just trust this process a bit.