Benefits of Enligthenment?

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

Hey guys! I been having a though in my head about enlightenment and it's consequences. Why would even become enlightened if the result is that "you" dissolve. Who is the one who achieves eternal happiness. Why actually doing all the stuff we are doing if there i no one actually to become enlightened. I sometimes wonder if what the world would look like if all the population is enlightened... just meditating? Would science exist, would dating exist? Is Truth the only point of the quest? Is Truth that valuable? What happen after we leave the Matrix? I also wonder why Jed Mckenna has a nihilistic view about life itself but Wilber or Tolle have a more "become free, etc". Saying that life has no meaning (like Mckenna states) is also a belief. I sometimes feel scared since I cannot re conciliate Enlightenment itself with actually living and how waking up can really make you live fully.

[Ayla]

Love this post. 

What I can tell you is that you do not become a monk. You do not sit crossed legged like a yogi all day meditating. 

You do not lose the you that you are right now. It is just being reprogrammed by TRUTH ! What that means is that you feel a deeper, broader, more spacious, calm, benevolent, still force that is flowing through you. You lose the grip you have on whatever your desire happens to flow in the present moment. Everything you continue to wish for, you will go for it in a detached manner, as you have the CERTAINTY that if it does not happen, something else, equally magnificent will come to inspire you. 

Imagine you are walking on a beach. You wouldn't care that your footprints don't remain in the sand, would you? It's exactly like that. You only live the joy of being alive, admiring every single spec of it... 

It is true however that you lose people, jobs, circumstances that once made you happy, simply because they do not fit into your new you any longer. They will simply fall off, with no resistance (pain, frustration) on your part whatsoever! 

The main words I would use to describe this new state are: 

Trust! Awe! Peace! Admiration! Wonder! Acceptance! LOVE

<3

[Leo Gura]

The question itself is coming from within the Matrix of ego, so it's somewhat misguided. Because from the perspective of no ego, there is no seeking for benefits or value. In fact benefit and value are illusions. The enlightened state is already full and complete. It doesn't need any benefits really. How do you fill a cup that's always full? This is a paradigm shift.

Enlightened people still date, and do science, etc. It's more like the reasons behind the doing would change.

"Life has no meaning" is not a belief. At least not when McKenna says it. It's technically true because meaning is a projection of the mind. What he don't emphasize is that you don't need meaning. Meaning is a shallow substitute for BEING. Being is much more satisfying than meaning because being is true and meaning is false. The search for meaning is the ego chasing its own tail in confusion, always frustrated because meaning can't ever be really found.

Enlightened people live not much differently than ordinary people. Just imagine an ordinary person who is very grateful and at peace with whatever is happening and very in the present moment, and not acting all neurotic. << that's what enlightened life looks like. The externals of enlightened life are totally ordinary: you still brush your teeth in the morning, you still shop for food, you still have sex, you still raise the children, you still go to work, you still file your taxes every year, you still go to the dentist, etc.

Or maybe you choose to become a monk in a cave. But that's mostly a stereotype.

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

So they actual and real benefit is the recognition of Truth. It's like realizing that you were in a movie.. Some people will like to watch still while others will want to be part of the movie, leaving the heart and soul in it but realizing in the end that whatever you do existence is perfect.. 

[Ayla]

3 minutes ago, jcgiusto said:

 realizing in the end that whatever you do existence is perfect.. 

Actually the realization is that YOU ARE the existence as it is. There's no you AND the existence. You simply are it. All of it. 

Brain will associate the "movie" image with something that is quite shallow and passive whereas enlightenment is quite the opposite: it feels alive, dynamic and yes, perfect no matter what. 

When talking about "no self" people do not mean that you become a veggie. You just are. no preferred perspective, no individual "solid" point of view...and that is the beauty of it. The fluidity and acceptance.  

[Ayla]

I also think that this is why most enlightened people on the planet right now have become THAT after intense suffering and pain. They have been stripped off all illusion and reached a point where they had nothing left to lose. Right there, in that present moment, they realized their own freedom. They realized that they cannot die because everything they saw as death before, didn't manage to kill them. Now this realization can come with deep searching also, from an inner calling that every human being has. It's just that some have it deeper at one point in their life, others are not yet ready. 

In my own case, within one year, I have been systematically stripped off every little thing that used to bring me comfort and/or distract me. I can tell you that it didn't feel good.... first lost my partner. then my job. then all my friends. then all my savings. then my parents.... at one point, I came to think that someone or something wanted me dead lol - pain was simply excruciating ! I actually ended up on my 5th floor window ready to jump.  

That was exactly the first glimpse into enlightenment: I saw my body crushed, the ambulances, the funeral, the pain... and then the peace. THE realization was that - that peace was already there without me jumping

I had access to it right that moment. 

Do I regret any of it? NO! It brought me into a space that is forever joy and trust. There are no more problems, there is no more striving, no more fear.. no more doing, no more stories, no more drama... I can see them as happenings but they have no impact on me. Maybe a heavy rain is not what you'd prefer, but .. you watch it pass, and you adjust to it and you continue your life

Nobody needs to arrive at chaos. It can be had with introspection, as Leo says, with profound self honesty, and a thirst for TRUTH that nothing can keep you away from 

[Guest]

This whole thing is very confusing. I suffer from the confusion of all this. It ends up manifested as irritability or frustration. I "know" that what i know is not really anything. I've figured out for myself, seriously but it's so hard to get free of identification and meaning and interpretation. I hate to say it but i have "faith" that I can transcend it, but there are times that i seriously question if I can. That usually leads to beer. lol

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

2 minutes ago, mike_herald said:

 I hate to say it but i have "faith" that I can transcend it, but there are times that i seriously question if I can. That usually leads to beer. lol

Your journey is absolutely worth it for this one thing lol

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, mike_herald said:

This whole thing is very confusing. I suffer from the confusion of all this. It ends up manifested as irritability or frustration. I "know" that what i know is not really anything. I've figured out for myself, seriously but it's so hard to get free of identification and meaning and interpretation. I hate to say it but i have "faith" that I can transcend it, but there are times that i seriously question if I can. That usually leads to beer. lol

Confusion and frustration is just par for the course. That IS the course basically. So just accept it, don't try to resist it or change it, and keep plowing ahead.

[Vincent Musanti]

I wonder if enlightened people feel lonely and upset that everyone else around them is still stuck in the illusion.

[Ayla]

No. There's no loneliness and there's no upset. 

There is of course a preference that people would wake up and just BE.. like one would prefer sunny weather to rain.

[OmahaTao]

Edited February 7, 2016 by OmahaTao

[Michael119]

Ayla, are you enlightened?

[goodguy]

Benefit: no suffering, finally lasting contentment which is the most precious thing in this life..

[Emerald]

This is a great question. Because we are so used to valuing things in relation to our egoic self (which is illusory), we have a difficult time understanding things that don't directly benefit the egoic self. What is important to realize is that the egoic self is only a concept that you have created using your thoughts. You go through life making decisions and sacrificing for this illusory sense of self, thinking that it will bring you happiness and fulfillment. But you are throwing all of your energy into maintaining a very heavy, burdensome illusion. So, when you transcend your egoic self, you get a real experience of being. So, ironically, your egoic self is actually obscuring your true nature and keeping you from true happiness. So, enlightenment (self-transcendence) could also be called optimum happiness. Along with this state of being comes complete peace of mind, even in relation to death. When I had my transcendental experiences I felt completely at one with everything in existence, true acceptance of myself, no stress, no fear (even of death), pure creativity and wisdom from the deepest wellspring of my being, unconditional love, and total authenticity. Trading the egoic self for transcendence is like trading a penny for a billion dollars... when you still get to keep the penny. 

[A way to Actualize]

On 6-2-2016 at 9:03 AM, jcgiusto said:

Hey guys! I been having a though in my head about enlightenment and it's consequences. Why would even become enlightened if the result is that "you" dissolve. Who is the one who achieves eternal happiness. Why actually doing all the stuff we are doing if there i no one actually to become enlightened. I sometimes wonder if what the world would look like if all the population is enlightened... just meditating? Would science exist, would dating exist? Is Truth the only point of the quest? Is Truth that valuable? What happen after we leave the Matrix? I also wonder why Jed Mckenna has a nihilistic view about life itself but Wilber or Tolle have a more "become free, etc". Saying that life has no meaning (like Mckenna states) is also a belief. I sometimes feel scared since I cannot re conciliate Enlightenment itself with actually living and how waking up can really make you live fully.

These questions of 'why' someone would want to be enlightened, are completely normal in a way. Everyone on there journey has those (I think). Your brain and beliefsystem need to integrate the idea of enlightenment. Further ahead the journey you will discover that enlightenment is not depressing at all, it is just fully participating in life. Enlightenment becomes something fun. To some extend you will always have an idea you experience it in a body, only you are not the body. 

Personally I am more interested in self-expression than truth. Truth is not ultimately the most valuable thing in the journey, but (as Matt Kahn says) it is love (what as by-product causes the realization of truth).

If you want all the fears to go away, I recommend the teaching on self-love; Teal Swan and Matt Kahn have videos on that topic. 

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

Cool point of 

@A way to Actualize Cool point of view! I am really into become the best that I can be in the journey, I'm really into self mastery and development. If Truth it's what is needed to be the greatest version of my self I'm okay with it. I want to experience life fully and if that requires me to be enlightened so be it!

[Metatron]

Starting the enlightenment journey the ego thinks it is fun to improve itself, but as soon as it realizes that this one means its death, then the ego doesn't want you to be enlightened. If you want to talk your ego into its death, that is quite a hard job. First, it will take every opportunity to dissuade you. It talks and talks and talks, and you should reach above your thoughts. And finally it acts as if it decided to surrender, but it is tricky and attacks when you don't expect.

In traditional Kabbalah, they reach the ultimate faith above reason with concentrating on that "God is good, and does good", and "There is none else besides Him." However, the methods differ at each spiritual school - everyone should find the one that suits him or her.

[jip]

Interesting topic... I think the main "benefit" is having a clear mind, but apart from that i don't really see why "you" would pursue enlightenment if you are not a hardcore truth-seeker.  Leo always says that it's impossible to be happy without being enlightened and the unenlightened life is a hell, but i don't really think that's completely true, at least not in my experience(or am i lying to myself right now?). I would say it's not so much of a holy grail as some people here make it out to be even though it will liberate you from "you", but unless you are not enjoying the dream that is life or can't stand maya anymore, why wake up? Everyone is gonna wake up eventually, so why rush it?

“Make no mistake about it―enlightenment is a destructive process. It
has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier. Enlightenment is the
crumbling away of untruth. It's seeing
through the facade of pretence. It's the
complete eradication of everything we
imagined to be true.”
― Adyashanti

Here’s a simple test. If it’s soothing or comforting, if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy; if it’s about getting into pleasant emotional or mental states; if it’s about peace, love, tranquility, silence or bliss; if it’s about a brighter future or a better tomorrow; if it makes you feel good about yourself or boosts your self-esteem, tells you you’re okay, tells you everything’s just fine the way it is; if it offers to improve, benefit or elevate you, or if it suggests that someone else is better or above you; if it’s about belief or faith or worship; if it raises or alters consciousness; if it combats stress or deepens relaxation, or if it’s therapeutic or healing, or if it promises happiness or relief from unhappiness, if it’s about any of these or similar things, then it’s not about waking up. Then it’s about living in the dreamstate, not smashing out of it.
On the other hand, if it feels like you’re being skinned alive, if it feels like a prolonged evisceration, if you feel your identity unraveling, if it twists you up physically and drains your health and derails your life, if you feel love dying inside you, if it seems like death would be better, then it’s probably the process of awakening. That, or a helluva case of gas.

-Jed McKenna-

 

[Tina]

On 2/6/2016 at 3:03 AM, jcgiusto said:

Hey guys! I been having a though in my head about enlightenment and it's consequences. Why would even become enlightened if the result is that "you" dissolve. Who is the one who achieves eternal happiness. Why actually doing all the stuff we are doing if there i no one actually to become enlightened. I sometimes wonder if what the world would look like if all the population is enlightened... just meditating? Would science exist, would dating exist? Is Truth the only point of the quest? Is Truth that valuable? What happen after we leave the Matrix? I also wonder why Jed Mckenna has a nihilistic view about life itself but Wilber or Tolle have a more "become free, etc". Saying that life has no meaning (like Mckenna states) is also a belief. I sometimes feel scared since I cannot re conciliate Enlightenment itself with actually living and how waking up can really make you live fully.

I'm not enlightened, yet, but the practice has affected me to the extent that I understand it's a subtractive process, not an additive process.  So, you don't add anything to yourself, such as when you gain specific knowledge or skills that can be used for making more money or having a title at the end of your name, etc.  Via meditation & mindful awareness, you see clearly the activity of creating a self, someone who likes/dislikes, wants/rejects, loves/hates.  When the activity of creating yourself (being reborn) over and over is seen for what it is--stressful--you cease to grasp, little by little, onto whatever causes you craving & restlessness, ill-will, or delusion (confusion/lack of clarity).

In my very limited experience, I've experienced the dissolving of self, and it is something that I can't forget.  The first few times it happened, I couldn't stop laughing.  When I saw the mistake in perception I had been making, it felt like the joke was on me all along.  When people use the words "space-like awareness", that's pretty accurate.  At least that's how it was perceived those few times, as an expansion into space or being less constricted/confined to the body.

To conclude, I'd say that you don't lose anything that would keep you from living a full, enjoyable life.  You lose all of the habits & perceptions that are barriers to that kind of life.