The Truth. Full stop. The end of gatekeeping and bypassing.

[Yimpa]

23 minutes ago, Exystem said:

Rupert Spira admitted in a video that he still slips out of his nondual experience from time to time. In my eyes he's not a good example because he's still hung up on a story.

Really? Which video? Let me watch him admit it so I can build up an even bigger story about how crazy these enlightened fools are!

[Exystem]

32 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Sign me up ☝️👍

Good one haha 

But luckily you're dead already

[Anon212]

I think the idea of becoming accomplished in any domain without a teacher is insane and especially so for spirituality. For example, if I wanted to go and master boxing, I most certainly need a teacher for effective development, to help me avoid common mistakes, for proper guidance etc etc.. Some teachers will be better than others, teachers will have different methods and my goal of mastering boxing will occur overtime through persistent practice, making finer and finer distinctions, getting feedback and so on... The same goes for spirituality although in the opposite direction of eliminating distinctions.

My primary problems with non-duality are as follows: they undermine awakening as some sort of simple experience. It is not simple it is the most mind-boggling and extraordinary thing that can happen to a person. How the fuck is infinity simple???

In my experience, anyone that talks about non-duality is often not enlightened, awake or free. You can talk as much as you like about it but you are not Ramana Maharshi. The biggest question right now is that in your experience right now ARE YOU FREE? If not, what the hell are you yapping about?

Most extraordinary teachers had to undergo intensive practices to liberate themselves... that IS the PARADOX. It is a process, yet it isn't - if you don't strive for it, it won't happen, I honestly wasted a year of my life with non-duality never attaining freedom. When I started intense kriya yoga and contemplation, I made fleeting leaps in consciousness. It would not have happened without yoga and contemplation, yet once in that place it felt wrong to credit it to doing yoga or contemplating. because whatever is just IS. See... PARADOX.

This is kind of information is dangerous especially for newbies because they will sit around doing nothing calling themselves God, yet they are not free. Spirituality is most certainly a process (paradoxically) and take most teachers as examples:

Sadghuru (multiple lifetimes apparently)

Peter Ralston (decades of contemplation)

Mooji (years of contemplation)

Ruper Spira (20+ years of contemplation)

Even Ramana Maharshi attained by contemplating death (as brief as it was)

Leo (decades of work but his understanding of reality is quite different)

Ram Dass (Decades of spiritual work and in the end he didn't claim total freedom)

Alan Watts (Profound understanding of reality but he was not free)

The key point you make is regarding stories. But stories is not the only thing that makes up reality, sure you can let go of stories but what about the context that allows stories to arise?  That is another distinction made by you which you are unaware of and that too influences your perception and prevents access to the Absolute Now. As I write this, that context is not there in my experience, it takes intense contemplation to access the "context", but that is just one such example of a morass of concepts beyond stories that prevent access to this moment. The conceptual overlay is so profound and so powerful that progressive deconstruction, doing yoga, psychedelics, deep contemplation is absolutely necessary.

Anyways, this is the most important question: all the stuff you say is nice and all but are you HONEST TO GOD, free right NOW? Because I am not.  Be BRUTALLY HONEST! If you are genuinely free, good for you, if not the deception is extraordinarily subtle. I think that non-duality is both useful and powerful but at the same time extraordinarily deceptive ESPECIALLY for newbies. IF non-duality results in the pretense that one is enlightened which it often does - then it is not good.

[Yimpa]

13 minutes ago, Anon212 said:

The same goes for spirituality although in the opposite direction of eliminating distinctions.

All distinctions are Infinity.

Quote

How the fuck is infinity simple???

Infinity can be simple. Or also confused and surprised!!!

Quote

This is kind of information is dangerous especially for newbies because they will sit around doing nothing calling themselves God, yet they are not free.

Takes One to know One.

[Yimpa]

17 minutes ago, Anon212 said:

That is another distinction made by you which you are unaware of and that too influences your perception and prevents access to the Absolute Now.

Yes, you made a distinction right there of an unawakened state and an Absolute Now. From my point of view, there are completely no difference and infinite number of differences together. This is not merely a word game, it’s a laser focused understanding of Truth.

[Javfly33]

@Anon212 very good comment. Extraordinary needed in this forum. A lot of people deluded in their mind around here.

Sometimes I get myself in hallucination too.

Then i do a Mudra and I'm again free.

I Hope nobody ever cuts my fingers 🤭 

[Breakingthewall]

54 minutes ago, Anon212 said:

I think the idea of becoming accomplished in any domain without a teacher is insane and especially so for spirituality. For example, if I wanted to go and master boxing, I most certainly need a teacher for effective development, to help me avoid common mistakes, for proper guidance etc etc.. Some teachers will be better than others, teachers will have different methods and my goal of mastering boxing will occur overtime through persistent practice, making finer and finer distinctions, getting feedback and so on... The same goes for spirituality although in the opposite direction of eliminating distinctions.

My primary problems with non-duality are as follows: they undermine awakening as some sort of simple experience. It is not simple it is the most mind-boggling and extraordinary thing that can happen to a person. How the fuck is infinity simple???

In my experience, anyone that talks about non-duality is often not enlightened, awake or free. You can talk as much as you like about it but you are not Ramana Maharshi. The biggest question right now is that in your experience right now ARE YOU FREE? If not, what the hell are you yapping about?

Most extraordinary teachers had to undergo intensive practices to liberate themselves... that IS the PARADOX. It is a process, yet it isn't - if you don't strive for it, it won't happen, I honestly wasted a year of my life with non-duality never attaining freedom. When I started intense kriya yoga and contemplation, I made fleeting leaps in consciousness. It would not have happened without yoga and contemplation, yet once in that place it felt wrong to credit it to doing yoga or contemplating. because whatever is just IS. See... PARADOX.

This is kind of information is dangerous especially for newbies because they will sit around doing nothing calling themselves God, yet they are not free. Spirituality is most certainly a process (paradoxically) and take most teachers as examples:

Sadghuru (multiple lifetimes apparently)

Peter Ralston (decades of contemplation)

Mooji (years of contemplation)

Ruper Spira (20+ years of contemplation)

Even Ramana Maharshi attained by contemplating death (as brief as it was)

Leo (decades of work but his understanding of reality is quite different)

Ram Dass (Decades of spiritual work and in the end he didn't claim total freedom)

Alan Watts (Profound understanding of reality but he was not free)

The key point you make is regarding stories. But stories is not the only thing that makes up reality, sure you can let go of stories but what about the context that allows stories to arise?  That is another distinction made by you which you are unaware of and that too influences your perception and prevents access to the Absolute Now. As I write this, that context is not there in my experience, it takes intense contemplation to access the "context", but that is just one such example of a morass of concepts beyond stories that prevent access to this moment. The conceptual overlay is so profound and so powerful that progressive deconstruction, doing yoga, psychedelics, deep contemplation is absolutely necessary.

Anyways, this is the most important question: all the stuff you say is nice and all but are you HONEST TO GOD, free right NOW? Because I am not.  Be BRUTALLY HONEST! If you are genuinely free, good for you, if not the deception is extraordinarily subtle. I think that non-duality is both useful and powerful but at the same time extraordinarily deceptive ESPECIALLY for newbies. IF non-duality results in the pretense that one is enlightened which it often does - then it is not good.

Good post, as the previous user said, it's a pleasure to read someone serious. But there are some things I disagree with. I think that no one can teach you spirituality and how to disidentify except yourself. This is not boxing, it is not learning, nor unlearning, I see it as an act of opening, of emerging from the density of experience. If you ask me if I am completely free now, I will tell you absolutely not, but I taste what the freedom of infinity is, I know that it is what I am and it is where I am going. It's a strange path, because you wonder, why all this? but it is indifferent, the freedom of infinity is life, it is what you have always wanted. Once you have seen it, no teacher can contribute anything, since they are inside the dream, they are part maya (using spiritual terms to be able to communicate). It is quite intimidating to let go of everything, but if you have already seen that in infinity is absolutely everything, total existence, that is the path you are going to follow.

[Anon212]

@Yimpa Your statement seems to skate over the surface of a profound complexity. Infinity, by its very nature, defies our standard concepts and categories. So, when we say it's 'simple' or it can be 'surprised', aren't we just projecting our limited understanding onto something that's way beyond our cognitive framework? And if it is way beyond or cognitive framework, ain't nothing simple about it..

[Yimpa]

7 minutes ago, Anon212 said:

So, when we say it's 'simple' or it can be 'surprised', aren't we just projecting our limited understanding onto something that's way beyond our cognitive framework?

The projector and the projecting and what is projected are One.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Yimpa

[Anon212]

@Breakingthewall

first - the notion that no one can teach you spirituality – I see where you're coming from. Sure, spirituality is deeply personal, and in the end, it's a journey you undertake on your own. But, isn't there value in guidance, especially when you're navigating something as complex and nuanced as spirituality? Think about it – in any domain, be it arts, science, or even spirituality, mentors and teachers play a critical role in shaping our understanding and approach. They're not there to walk the path for us but to illuminate the way, to help us see what we might otherwise miss.

Now, about your experience of tasting the freedom of infinity – that's powerful. But, doesn't this experience itself raise questions? Like, how did you come to taste this freedom? Was it spontaneous, or was there a catalyst, maybe a practice, a book, a conversation?

You mention that once you've seen the freedom of infinity, no teacher can contribute anything. I get the sentiment, but isn't it possible that teachers, even if they are part of the 'maya', can still offer valuable insights, help us refine our understanding, or even challenge us to look deeper?

[Yimpa]

Just now, Anon212 said:

the notion that no one can teach you spirituality

No one to teach but YOU!

[Anon212]

@Yimpa Your asshole and earlobe are one... see this is why I often find non-duality reductionist, annoying and unhelpful

[Yimpa]

Just now, Anon212 said:

@Yimpa Your asshole and earlobe are one... see this is why I often find non-duality reductionist, annoying and unhelpful

Ain’t that the Truth 

[Yimpa]

8 minutes ago, Anon212 said:

Now, about your experience of tasting the freedom of infinity – that's powerful. But, doesn't this experience itself raise questions? Like, how did you come to taste this freedom? Was it spontaneous, or was there a catalyst, maybe a practice, a book, a conversation?

Yes, there will still be infinite questions to be had. But it’s no longer questioning from a foundation of doubt. The questions and answers are seen ass God, by God, as God.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Yimpa

[Anon212]

@Yimpa At this point, I can anticipate your non-dual responses coming in and to be honest they are preventing any sort of genuine discussion.

Your insights, no doubt, have their profundity, but they seem to resonate more in those rare, heightened states of consciousness, I'm talking about grounding these insights into everyday reality, which is a different ball game.

Peter Ralston's notion of becoming Absolutely Conscious by 'making a leap but leaving out the leaping part' strikes a chord here. It seems like you're heavily focused on the 'leaving out the leaping part', which, while important, is just one side of the coin. The 'leap' – the active, conscious effort to engage with and integrate these insights into the human experience – is equally crucial.

We're just dancing around the discussion and not facing the FACT, the people are disillusioned. I am trying to ground it but you will me that your ass hairs and optic nerve are one

[Breakingthewall]

30 minutes ago, Anon212 said:

You mention that once you've seen the freedom of infinity, no teacher can contribute anything. I get the sentiment, but isn't it possible that teachers, even if they are part of the 'maya', can still offer valuable insights, help us refine our understanding, or even challenge us to look deeper?

Could be, That idea that if it is part of maya it is useless, well thought out, it is nonsense. The problem is another: how many have really been able to transcend the human? who are they? What can they teach you?  What I see is that once this starts, reality shows you the way. maybe the path at a given moment will be a teacher, who knows 

30 minutes ago, Anon212 said:

how did you come to taste this freedom? Was it spontaneous, or was there a catalyst, maybe a practice, a book, a conversation?

Most of times a catalyst, meditation then psychedelic. Sometimes spontaneous, sleeping, after a trip, etc. Always short time, I can't go a retreat and be in that state for hours, not even close. but in this very moment I perceive that what I am is the unlimited creating this density, the experience. I can't dissolve it, but it's not far, a little 5meo and it's done

Edited December 17, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Yimpa]

@Anon212 Of course, in Peter Ralston’s own reality, he has a set of rules and expectations.

Peter Raltson is Truth, yet Truth is way beyond Peter Ralston.

[Anon212]

@Yimpa  You are not "bridging the (paradoxical) gap" between absolute consciousness and "getting the person" there. Just speaking in riddles and spinning the wheel. It sounds like you have a box full of papers with non-dual comments written on them and each time you pull out a piece of paper and write a wise non-dual quote on here

I am beginning to see the deep and subtle traps in non-duality, I hope I meet a three-horned alien one day that can telepathically teach me about reality...  THAT is "bridging the gap" right there

[Yimpa]

I have no non-dual comments to look at for reference. I/You/We is all the comments. Even doubting and rejecting Yourself is God’s Perfection.

[Anon212]

@Yimpa I'm gonna say that to Donald Trump to see if he becomes a non-dualist