I am in literal hell

[Schizophonia]

Just now, Sugarcoat said:

Nothing

Well what's the problem? 👁

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Well what's the problem? 👁

I’ve written a lot already 

[UnbornTao]

@Sugarcoat 

Why do you assume so much stuff?

Interpretation may lie behind the experiencing of anything.

The body works fine on its own. Resistance can be let go of.

Does it objectively exist, or is it an activity?

Embrace and turn into, the experience. Discover what's actually there.

Edited December 9, 2023 by UnbornTao

[An young being]

Most importantly, the change is neurological is a huge assumption. If that's what you believe, go get a brain scan and check whether it's fine or not.

[Schizophonia]

46 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

about is not it.

A reaction is different from the thing being reacted to.

I mean that a discomfort correlated with an experience is often less about the fundamental nature of the experience than the point of view one gets stuck in for whatever reason, as you have implied. It may also be that the pure experience and the discomfort are not fundamentally linked but have a common cause, such as a brain problem.

[Sugarcoat]

8 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@Sugarcoat 

Anything can be described. That's what language is for.

Interpretation lies behind that experience of yours, it's not just the words that are interpreted. Another way to put it, how you hold and interpret "reality" creates that experience. 

Why do you assume stuff? Where do you take that "brain preserving self" stuff from?

The body works fine on its own. If it helps, hold self as a tool.

Resistance is done by you and letting go is a principle worth practicing. Embrace and turn into the experience to discover what's there.

But is it true? How true is it? Is it objectively there as an existence, or is is there as a subjectively-generated activity that once let go of, it stops coming up?

Contemplate that.

in this moment when talking about a few weeks ago when my sense of self was absolute weakest, im not suffering when thinking about it. The suffering isn’t connected to any thoughts about it. That time few weeks ago, and these past weeks, the suffering was not caused by mental interpretation. When the sense of self weakens, thoughts weaken simultaneously, they seem more hollow, as sense of self strengthens, everything in reality seems richer and more real . The sense of you existing, and the strengthening and weakening of that experience,  is prior to interpretation, I’m describing the most fundamental thing: self, not mental mind self literally the “I am here” solidity center sense. 

When my sense of self weakens, what happens is that there is this sort of “activity of maintenance”. I’m not doing that. It is being done but it’s like I AM that activity in itself. And that is the suffering like strings pulling in all your being but you are the strings literally it’s all automatic . I don’t do resistance I am the resistance it’s more intimate than that, there’s not really a relationship to it. That’s why I say brain tries to preserve self because in my experience I’m in my head aware of what’s going on and simultaneously intimately entangled in it , thus a “victim” of it. 
and the thoughts about physical exercise happens automatically - my brain pointing me to that which would build me back up 

 

ofc the body is fine, it is always fine. 
 

it’s prior to any contemplation : the experience of thoughts changes as sense of self grows /weakness 

 

[Sugarcoat]

32 minutes ago, An young being said:

Most importantly, the change is neurological is a huge assumption. If that's what you believe, go get a brain scan and check whether it's fine or not.

Everything is fine except me : that’s what this is all about. The weakening of sense of self being suffering doesn’t mean it’s a problem for the brain, the brain is fine. 
 

there’s not really a point in getting a brain scan unless there is some chemical or thing that could be done to bring stability to this sense of self- and there doesn’t seem to be anything like that

 

its deeper than this too

for example a few weeks ago when my sense of self was at its absolute lowest : any concept barely has any reality to it whatsoever, people don’t have barely any reality whatsoever , so sitting down in a hospital wouldn’t even feel real at all so it doesn’t change anything so nothing in me is attracted to doing so. 

[Sugarcoat]

39 minutes ago, An young being said:

Most importantly, the change is neurological is a huge assumption. If that's what you believe, go get a brain scan and check whether it's fine or not.

The reason I can say with certainty that it could be seen neurologically is because it’s a constant thing it’s not like some temporary state or emotion.

my sense of self feels very vague, and it’s like I am extremely “forward” in my skull , like everything I’m looking at is extremely close to me , almost headless and that is my current “baseline”

 

as a child I had the opposite ; my sense of self was extremely far back in my skull like everything seemed extremely distant . That was my baseline

ghats not some belief system, or negative thoughts, or passing emotion, or passing state. That’s a lived baseline , it can’t not have a neurological basis 

[An young being]

3 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

ghats not some belief system, or negative thoughts, or passing emotion, or passing state. That’s a lived baseline , it can’t not have a neurological basis 

And believe me, it needn't be permanent, just because you had it for a few weeks or months.

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, An young being said:

And believe me, it needn't be permanent, just because you had it for a few weeks or months.

There is nothing that’s gonna build itself back by itself. It’s not like a trip that is temporary opening . It’s the result of years of accumulated change and shifting

 

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

it’s prior to any contemplation : the experience of thoughts changes as sense of self grows /weakness 

Stop making shit up. Are you willing to listen and to experience something new, or do you want to keep resisting and insisting on your way of going about this? Are you open to moving from the position you find yourself in, or is this just complaining? 

Edited December 9, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Schizophonia]

2 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I’ve written a lot already 

I wouldn't know what more to say from there. 🤷‍♂️

[Sugarcoat]

27 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Stop making shit up.

Are you actually willing to listen, to contemplate, and to experience, or do you want to keep resisting and insisting on your way? Are you open to moving from the position you find yourself in, or is this just complaining? 

Enjoy the complaining.

It’s not closeminded ness it’s that it doesn’t describe my experience. I’m not here to convince anyone or argue, I don’t mind who responds or doesn’t .
 

it’s a bit more tragic than that I’m just enjoying this little sense of self I have now produced and interacting with others as it, while I can before it starts to weaken again. 

 

i believe Jim Newman is perhaps the only one who would understand what I’m talking about based on all the “teachers” I’ve heard (although he talks about non duality so not really, but the way he talks about the self has some similarity)

Me insisting on it being more fundamental is because I am precisely talking about the sense of center self. Isn’t is the most fundamental thing? And how it can change, the suffering connected to that, and resistance. Those are all words, but the experience of it is very real in experience .
 

 

 

 

[Sugarcoat]

13 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I wouldn't know what more to say from there. 🤷‍♂️

That is okay. I understand all the responses I get and what people mean but it is not what I mean. And that is okay because it doesn’t change my experience unfortunately 

[UnbornTao]

I could take an experience of a simple headache and turn it into a fantastical story where I'm either a hero, a victim, etc.

When having a headache: "I feel my kundalini awakening, it's real and it's my baseline, I feel it, it is prior to my brain, my body resists the experience, I can't do anything about it.

But what does it mean? My third chakra has awakened. It feels like my sense of self is concentrated on the back of my head and might dissolve in one and a half weeks. The sensation is caused by my intense meditation session that I did yesterday, and because I ran naked on the street on a cold winter evening. My self is expanding into infinity, and I know it's real because it's there, I feel it, even though there's pain. My body loves the energy that's being rushing to my brain, and it seems to sustain it. Feels good."

And I might well experience that as real. Thanks to the cosmology that I hold, I turned a headache into a wonderful kundalini awakening. Now I'm this higher being, able to expand my self thanks to that remarkable realization. And it was just a headache to begin with.

Edited June 18, 2024 by UnbornTao

[An young being]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

There is nothing that’s gonna build itself back by itself. It’s not like a trip that is temporary opening . It’s the result of years of accumulated change and shifting

 

When did you start experiencing the thing you are talking about?

[Salvijus]

What if you simply stopped interpreting your experience and say I have no idea what's going on. But I don't have to know. I can simply abide in peace. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Salvijus

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Salvijus said:

What if you simply stopped interpreting your experience and say I have no idea what's going on. But I have to know. I can simply abide in peace. 

The interpretation doesn’t affect what  I’m going through and have been going through 

it doesn’t hurt to interpret and talk about it. No problem in all this conceptualizing

As I said I’m just interacting as myself with reality before I sink back down 

 

[Salvijus]

But you say sinking down feels like hell. Isn't that an interpretation of experience? What if all events are neutral and we are the ones who give meaning and interpretation to the experience? And then experience our reality accordingly

Edited December 9, 2023 by Salvijus

[Sugarcoat]

14 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

But you say sinking down feels like hell. Isn't that an interpretation of experience? What if all events are neutral and we are the ones who give meaning and interpretation to the experience? And then experience our reality accordingly

it’s not the sinking that feels like hell. It’s this sort of activity of trying to desperately pull back from sinking that is hell . And it’s not experienced as a choice like I’m the one doing that activity , it’s  happening automatically and I am living it. 
Im not talking about self as in mental identities like I’m smart, im pretty , im nice etc, im talking about the solid center, when that starts to dissolve it doesn’t feel like I’m fighting to keep it alive, it just happens automatically by itself but it feels like hell. Like if you were a fire - you’re not committing the action of burning yourself because you are the very itself fire so it’s not experienced as a choice like “I could surrender” but it’s still hell 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Sugarcoat