Enlightenment is a paradigm

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, vibv said:

LOL

It's true, if I have I don't believe them, so it's like I haven't. 

[SOUL]

On 9/26/2023 at 3:38 AM, vibv said:

"God-realized" people are paradigm-locked. Every critique of that can be completely discarded by calling others not God-realized or "obviously not there yet". That alone should make you suspicious.

...hm

[vibv]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's true, if I have I don't believe them, so it's like I haven't. 

I can guarantee you with extremely high certainty that this isn't the case.

Paradigms are never perceived as such when you're inside them.

[Breakingthewall]

29 minutes ago, vibv said:

I can guarantee you with extremely high certainty that this isn't the case.

Paradigms are never perceived as such when you're inside them.

For example?

[Yimpa]

@vibv @Breakingthewall A more nuanced example would be that certain paradigms cannot be fathomable from other paradigms. For example, a materialist scientist cannot imagine psychic phenomena. The scientist would need to step outside of their worldview to understand what psychic phenomena is.

If you are not interested in stepping out, or even worse, flat out deny it, then bam, you’re stuck.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Yimpa

[Breakingthewall]

@Yimpa

Any paradigm is a mental construction, if you want to open yourself to reality, you have to abandon them completely

[vibv]

@Yimpa @Breakingthewall  

Quote

A more nuanced example would be that certain paradigms cannot be fathomable from other paradigms. For example, a materialist scientist cannot imagine psychic phenomena. The scientist would need to step outside of their worldview to understand what psychic phenomena is.

Exactly. For the materialist scientist materialism IS the reality, there's no other possibility. It's like a fish in the water that's unconscious of the fact that there even is a medium in which it's able to swim.

[vibv]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Yimpa

Any paradigm is a mental construction, if you want to open yourself to reality, you have to abandon them completely

I'd say it's impossible to abandon all paradigms. It is only possible to become more conscious of them.

No way of looking at the world will ever be final. There are always more beautiful, more truthful worldviews.

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, vibv said:

I'd say it's impossible to abandon all paradigms. It is only possible to become more conscious of them.

Paradigms are just ideas formed within reality. limited structures. It is not difficult to leave them aside completely. Just realize that any paradigm is corrupting your perception by limiting it, and that's it, you go blank, openness.

[vibv]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

Paradigms are just ideas formed within reality. limited structures. It is not difficult to leave them aside completely. Just realize that any paradigm is corrupting your perception by limiting it, and that's it, you go blank, openness.

Paradigms are more sneaky than that. They literally define how you see and experience the world without being aware of it, without ideas you can identify running through your head. They are deeply ingrained into your psyche.

[Yimpa]

6 minutes ago, vibv said:

It's like a fish in the water that's unconscious of the fact that there even is a medium in which it's able to swim

And fish can even be outside of water, but that’s easily overlooked when we only focus on swimming fish.

[Breakingthewall]

25 minutes ago, vibv said:

Paradigms are more sneaky than that. They literally define how you see and experience the world without being aware of it, without ideas you can identify running through your head. They are deeply ingrained into your psyche.

29 minutes ago, vibv said:

 

Exactly, they are filters, and this work is precisely to eliminate them and perceive reality, now, without a filter. the total opening. This is what we seek, out of the mind. For me it is obvious, it is a daily reality, if I do not reach that state every day I feel trapped. That's why I can't avoid to talk about that here, do meditation or do psychedelic often, because I need to go out of the mind. 

[vibv]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Exactly, they are filters, and this work is precisely to eliminate them and perceive reality, now, without a filter. the total opening. This is what we seek, out of the mind. For me it is obvious, it is a daily reality, if I do not reach that state every day I feel trapped. That's why I can't avoid to talk about that here, do meditation or do psychedelic often, because I need to go out of the mind. 

You're just addicted to no-mind. Next step is to realize that even in the mind you are that

[UnbornTao]

@Yimpa what?

We would also need to know what a paradigm is. But that's a different discussion. Paradigms are relative, your true nature may not be. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, vibv said:

You're just addicted to no-mind. Next step is to realize that even in the mind you are that

No, I'm in a process to change my frequency permanently. It's completely obvious and goes pretty fast. The most prominent symptom is authentic joy. You don't want the half truth, you are the reality, you want to get out of the illusion of the structured mind completely, without reservation.

[Yimpa]

4 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@Yimpa what?

For example, as I was driving, I saw a symbol of a fish on the back of someone’s car. That immediate recognition “aha!” made it very clear in my mind that fish are not just in water. They can be eaten on a dish, in movies like Finding Nemo, even recontexualized as saying something like, “You’re acting fishy.”

Now that’s just a fish! Imagine all the other infinite possibilities we can be rambling on about… not just enlightenment.

But NOT just rambling. It’s all GOD!

Edited September 29, 2023 by Yimpa

[vibv]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

No, I'm in a process to change my frequency permanently. It's completely obvious and goes pretty fast. The most prominent symptom is authentic joy. You don't want the half truth, you are the reality, you want to get out of the illusion of the structured mind completely, without reservation.

You're still splitting reality in half: in mind bad, out of mind good. That only leads to suffering long-term

[UnbornTao]

4 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

For example, as I was driving, I saw a symbol of a fish on the back of someone’s car. That immediate recognition “aha!” made it very clear in my mind that fish are not just in water. They can be eaten on a dish, in movies like Finding Nemo, even recontexualized as saying something like, “You’re acting fishy.”

Now that’s just a fish! Imagine all the other infinite possibilities we can be rambling on about… not just enlightenment.

But NOT just rambling. It’s all GOD!

Sure. Possibility is literally open-ended. But in order to talk about any topic at all, some grounding is needed. Saying it's all god doesn't say much, does it? It still leaves the question what is god open.

So time to get down to business.  

[Yimpa]

5 minutes ago, vibv said:

You're still splitting reality in half: in mind bad, out of mind good. That only leads to suffering long-term

Thank you for pointing that out.

Even what used to appear as ordinary can transform into extraordinary. It’s a bias to choose one over the other, and actually prevents you from expanding your consciousness.

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, vibv said:

You're still splitting reality in half: in mind bad, out of mind good. That only leads to suffering long-term

No, it's not out of the mind, is about dissolving the structures. All the spiritual work is about that. The structures are a kind of crutches that we have to abandon in some point

Edited September 29, 2023 by Breakingthewall