General thread about the war in Ukraine

[Blackhawk]

Since a general thread about it didn't exist.. here you have it.

This is my favorite YouTube channel about the war: https://youtube.com/@JakeBroe Highly recommended.

And on 2nd place: https://youtube.com/@DenysDavydov

[WeCome1]

1 hour ago, Blackhawk said:

Since a general thread about it didn't exist..

Or did it?..

[Blackhawk]

3 hours ago, WeCome1 said:

Or did it?..

Can you read? The title of that thread is: "Major developments in the Russo-Ukraine war"

[WeCome1]

Ok, explain the difference which I failed to see?

[Blackhawk]

8 minutes ago, WeCome1 said:

Ok, explain the difference which I failed to see?

It was about specific major developments which happened back then:

"The war in Ukraine has had many developments in the past few weeks. Ukraine has liberated 6000 square kilometers in the north eastern region, pushing the Russian soldiers back as the defensive lines collapsed."

[WeCome1]

Yes, but it obviously has naturally transformed into a general discussion of all things related to the war in Ukraine. You yourself participated in that discussion. Anyway, if you feel that a separate topic is needed - who am I to judge? It's the job of the moderators. Cheers!

[Blackhawk]

7 minutes ago, WeCome1 said:

Yes, but it obviously has naturally transformed into a general discussion of all things related to the war in Ukraine. You yourself participated in that discussion. Anyway, if you feel that a separate topic is needed - who am I to judge? It's the job of the moderators. Cheers!

People, including me, were forced to use it as a general thread because no general thread existed. And now I get hate for starting a general thread.

Weird stuff.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Blackhawk

[WeCome1]

17 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

And now I get hate for starting a general thread.

What hate are you talking about? Weren't you the one who started accusing me of inability to read after I merely pointed out that a functionally identical thread exists? Be careful with your projections.

[Hatfort]

It's not looking good for Ukraine right now. They have been given heavy artillery and trained for months to perform a counteroffensive. For now it's failing, a big part of the artillery is already lost and trained soldiers are dying without achieving significant wins, some small villages at most and sometimes losing them right away.

Zelensky should have taken the initial offer, which was Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk and the commitment not to join NATO or EU. Now it seems they can hold Kherson and Zaporizhia too, connecting the two areas and the whole Azov sea coast for Russia. I think they can hold it long-term.

I thought Europe would push for the end of the war sooner, as they are also having some economic damage from it, but I was wrong. They are so sold to the US and NATO.

The longer it goes, the worse for Ukraine.

[Blackhawk]

@Hatfort I'll try to be a good boy and not yell at you for your bs. Instead I will politely give you this link:

Have a nice day.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Blackhawk

[Blackhawk]

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1670706258326765569

Video of orcs getting eliminated (shot).

Slava Ukraini ??

Edited June 21, 2023 by Blackhawk

[Blackhawk]

Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/6cnkk1J0I1UqtxTYVUL4Fe?si=xd3zTmLFTgKv3Qg58zbwXA

 

https://youtube.com/@telegraph

"Ukraine: The Latest" with a Ukrainian flag as thumbnail.

[mojsterr]

Quote

Joe Biden created for the U.S. a war like no other, one where others die and the U.S. simply sits back and pays the bills on a gargantuan scale. No attempts are made at diplomacy by the Americans, and the diplomatic efforts of others like the Chinese are dismissed as evil attempts to gain influence in the area (similar to the dismissal of Chinese diplomatic work in the Yemen war.) Biden is coming close to achieving 1984’s end state of perpetual warfare, while only putting a handful of American lives at risk. He has learned lessons from the Cold War, and has already put them into play. Can we call it the Biden Doctrine yet?

 

Biden’s strategy is clear enough now after well more than a year of conflict; what he has been sending to Ukraine jumped from helmets and uniforms to F-16s in only fifteen months and shows no signs of stopping. The problem is U.S. weapons are never enough for victory and are always “just enough” to allow the battle to go on until the next round. If the Ukrainians think they are playing the U.S. for arms, they best check who is really paying for everything in blood.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/a-war-like-no-other/

[Blackhawk]

@mojsterr Biden did not create the war.

[mojsterr]

It wasn't meant like that, at least I don't read it like Biden was the originator. Russia started it. But I think it is clear what the article wants to say.

[Blackhawk]

8 minutes ago, mojsterr said:

It wasn't meant like that, at least I don't read it like Biden was the originator. Russia started it. But I think it is clear what the article wants to say.

I see.

"The problem is U.S. weapons are never enough for victory and are always “just enough” to allow the battle to go on until the next round."

Yes I agree. US (and other democracies) doesn't send enough weapons. Ukraine could win the war pretty quickly if they would get enough weapons, and that would save ukrainian lives.

[mojsterr]

To me the purpose is to keep it as long as possible, so some people (the arms business) could profit

[Starlight321]

On 20.6.2023 at 0:19 AM, Hatfort said:

It's not looking good for Ukraine right now. They have been given heavy artillery and trained for months to perform a counteroffensive. For now it's failing, a big part of the artillery is already lost and trained soldiers are dying without achieving significant wins, some small villages at most and sometimes losing them right away.

Zelensky should have taken the initial offer, which was Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk and the commitment not to join NATO or EU. Now it seems they can hold Kherson and Zaporizhia too, connecting the two areas and the whole Azov sea coast for Russia. I think they can hold it long-term.

I thought Europe would push for the end of the war sooner, as they are also having some economic damage from it, but I was wrong. They are so sold to the US and NATO.

The longer it goes, the worse for Ukraine.

I second the first two paragraphs. I don't like to tell this but if you look at the maps, the places were the battles are fought you see its not even the first line of defense were they were repelled. The things is that even if it's slow the russians still inch their way ahead therefore will probably achieve their goals because every inch they conquer ukraine has to get back some way and both sides know this.

In many parts of ukraine the russians are still advancing and already a quater of their forces are comitted and some of them are heavily damaged. They broke at the first defensive line and are outgunned by artillary and air. Also the ukrainian army doesn't want to kill 50k soldiers as the wagners did with the prisoners so they have to be more caucious.

Militarywise they need far more air defense systems and artillery or it's a waste of lives. The things is that the russian air strikes over the whole country caused two things. The first is that the ukrainians run out of ammo of their s300 air defense systems and the second thing is that this threat caused that most western air defense systems are spread across the country protecting infrastructure and they haven't either enough to deploy at the front nor do they want to because this could bring those expensive and rare items into striking range. 

The only place were they really advance and pose a threat is around bakhmut were the russian haven't had much time to prepare the defenses. I hope they can soon use they dried dnjepr river for ofensive actions. However I hope that they still manage to make some gains or pull something off. Maybe I'll have some time the following days to give you a detailed report. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Starlight321

[Blackhawk]

3 hours ago, mojsterr said:

To me the purpose is to keep it as long as possible, so some people (the arms business) could profit

That's just a conspiracy theory.

Such accusations requires a lot of evidence. Armchair mental games are not enough.

[Starlight321]

17 hours ago, mojsterr said:

To me the purpose is to keep it as long as possible, so some people (the arms business) could profit

It's not that there are some evil commpanies or people pulling the strings from behind. There are many factors drawing it out to the situation we are finding ouerselves in. Think about the following:

Ukrainians don't want to be bullied into submission from a mafia like country that denies openly their cultural, political and economic integrity and they want to participate in the western system for the benefits in the afore mentioned areas and their developmental perspectives. Also keep in mind that in the first part of the invasion destroyed a big part of the ukraine, killed innocent people, plundered cities and raped their women. So more of this is expected in terretories which the russians might gain and it's the ukrainian govorments duty to prevent that from happening.

However I don't think ukraine can win but they have too much sacrificed to lose too. So they have improve their situation for the negotiations by giving russia some kind of strategic defeat. They are also under huge pressure from the donator countries to get some results in the south so they have to put their people in the meat grinder. But instead of the russians (they have finally improved that as well) they also try to minimize casuslties hence they don't break through. 

An the other side the russians think that they will capture the annexed terretories eventually in 2-3 years and they as a former superpower can't let a defeat ever happen. So they invest more and more ressources and seem to increase their military production a lot which btw europian countries still haven't. The russians are also afraid of ukraine joining nato if they lose and the conflict is solved in the ukrainians favour which was one of the reasons for the war at the beginning. There are more reasons from the russian perspective which contradicts  other perspectives like protecting russian people. Leo has explained that very well in a thread a year ago, you can find it.

In this conflict are so many interests involved that go beyond the things I mentioned but this more or less explaines why still fighting is going on. There are companies like the military industrial complex that drive the conflict on a lower level though but this has to fit in the context I explaint to get a better picture.  But there are also coorparates in the economy that would more profit from peace. So one has to keep that in mind too.

@mojsterr what's your opinion about that?

Edited June 22, 2023 by Starlight321