An easy way to vet out incompatible women

[mr_engineer]

Leo has said in the past that 'don't use the boyfriend frame, use the player-frame, cuz the boyfriend-frame will get you friendzoned'. 

Here's what I've observed - the boyfriend-frame gets you friendzoned with women who are very transactional in the way they deal with men. These women have a bright red line between 'men who are friends' and 'men who they sleep with' with no overlap between the two. If you adopt the player-frame with them, yes, they will see you as attractive and probably sleep with you. But, in the future, they will use sex as a manipulation to get you to commit to them. Whereas, the guys who are willing to commit are going to use the boyfriend-frame, because that's what commitment looks like! But, because they don't know what commitment looks like, the one with the boyfriend-frame goes into the friendzone. 

So, how do you vet them? Go with the boyfriend-frame. If she friendzones you, she's not worth your time. 

And, one final point about this - it does work with women who know what 'love' is and who know what they're looking for in a man. If you get close enough with such a person, things must go in a sexual direction. But, this time, in the context of relationship, not in the context of a one-off transaction. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

These women have a bright red line between 'men who are friends' and 'men who they sleep with'

Most women have this line. It's not about being transactional, it's about how a woman sees you and how you make her feel. If she doesn't feel attraction for you quickly, she will friendzone you and never change her mind.

Attraction is not a choice. So don't make the mistake of thinking that only the bad girls get attracted this way. ALL girls get attracted in the same way. Your good girl still wants to fuck a player. Committing to girls because you want them to sleep with you is a classic newbie mistake.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Buck Edwards]

Commit to a girl because you genuinely want to be her boyfriend and not just wanting to get laid. 

There's a special honor in being a boyfriend. 

Regarding friendzone, she will friendzone you if you aren't attractive enough. Accept it. If you want things to change, provide her more value. 

[mr_engineer]

@Leo Gura How can there be love in a relationship, if your girlfriend has other guy-friends she's talking to about stuff she can't talk to you about, just because she's fucking you and she wants to keep the transaction alive? 

The issue isn't about attracting them. You are right about that. The issue is having a high-quality relationship. There, these player-patterns can fuck up the relationship completely. Is my point. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

@Leo Gura How can there be love in a relationship, if your girlfriend has other guy-friends she's talking to about stuff she can't talk to you about, just because she's fucking you and she wants to keep the transaction alive?

What?

If a girl is sleeping with you she will naturally talk to you about deeper things than she talks with other guys about. It's rare to talk to people about deep things if you aren't sleeping with them.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[mr_engineer]

@Leo Gura On the one hand, you say that 'most women have a bright red line between guys they're friends with and guys they're sleeping with', in response to me saying that 'the women who have this line are transactional'.

On the other hand, you're saying that 'they will naturally open up more to guys they're sleeping with'.

This negates the first statement that you made, right?! Where did the bright red line go, if she opens up to guys who she's sleeping with?! And, why would she need other guys who she friendzones and complains to about her toxic relationship if she didn't have this bright red line, if she could open up to her boyfriend?! 

Edited May 14, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Leo Gura]

Sounds to me like you are making up problems where none exist.

She will friendzone you and use you for small talk and shallow social crap. The guy she sleeps with will get more depth and intimacy from her.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Kshantivadin]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Sounds to me like you are making up problems where none exist.

She will friendzone you and use you for small talk and shallow social crap.

Do you think men and women can be friends? Do you see any value in this? Or is it about "small talk" and "shallow social crap" 

[mr_engineer]

@Leo Gura Then how do you explain the phenomenon in which she has a toxic relationship and she opens up to her guy-friends about it? Guys who she has friendzoned? 

[Buck Edwards]

5 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

@Leo Gura On the one hand, you say that 'most women have a bright red line between guys they're friends with and guys they're sleeping with', in response to me saying that 'the women who have this line are transactional'.

On the other hand, you're saying that 'they will naturally open up more to guys they're sleeping with'.

This negates the first statement that you made, right?! Where did the bright red line go, if she opens up to guys who she's sleeping with?! And, why would she need other guys who she friendzones and complains to about her toxic relationship if she didn't have this bright red line, if she could open up to her boyfriend?! 

You're confusing what Leo is saying. What Leo is saying is that if she is not attracted to you then you on the bad side of the red line. You're friendzoned. Let's say this zone is a triangle. So you're in the triangle now. If she filters a guy as attractive, he will be on the good side of the red line, let's say that zone is a circle. But this circle will have two layers - one player and the other boyfriend. If she sees you attractive enough but not boyfriend material then she would want a one time and then never look back. If she sees there's a chance for intimacy, she might want you as her boyfriend and more. She will use her guy friend for regular talk, he will never get intimacy from her, that area is reserved for the boyfriend, if she is not fully opening to her boyfriend, it's an emotionally abusive relationship most likely and toxic and she is probably looking for confirmation through her guy friends, but you can't call this intimate talk, it's like her confession to make sense of her ongoing relationship. If it's a healthy relationship she will not find the need to talk to her guy friends about it and she will be more open to her boyfriend. I did not see where the transactional thing came. The only thing to know is that no matter what you can't enjoy intimacy with her if you are friendzoned, and relationship talk is waste of your time ideally and you should not do it too much, of course you can always do it as a friend but if you have a girlfriend then probably avoid being her vent partner because there isn't much for you in it unless you are deriving equal value in being friends with her. Hope this clears up your confusion. 

 

[mr_engineer]

3 hours ago, Enlightement said:

You're confusing what Leo is saying. What Leo is saying is that if she is not attracted to you then you on the bad side of the red line. You're friendzoned.

In that case, he misinterpreted what I was saying. Which is that from an intimacy-standpoint, if you're friendzoned, with transactional women, you're on the good side of the red line. But, from a sex-standpoint, you're on the bad side. Because the red line separates those she has intimacy with from those she has sex with. The point of doing it like this, is to be transactional with those who she has sex with. 

3 hours ago, Enlightement said:

I did not see where the transactional thing came.

This thread is about a red-flag that incompatible women, women who don't know what love and intimacy are, women who are purely transactional, will exhibit. And how to vet them out. 

Everyone is not in the rat-race to get laid. I would much rather evaluate compatibility before running in this race. 

3 hours ago, Enlightement said:

The only thing to know is that no matter what you can't enjoy intimacy with her if you are friendzoned,

This is simply not the case. There can, in fact, be intimacy with female friends. Because intimacy is not sex. 

5 hours ago, RebornConsciousness said:

So her friend listening to her insipid relationship bullshit drivel, is your idea of intimacy and a good use of his time? While the other guy is boning her? LOL

Just accept reality mate, and stop rationalizing.

The reality is that intimacy is not the same as sex. It is a bias of the male ego to assume that they are the same. They're not. Ask any woman. 

[mr_engineer]

10 minutes ago, RebornConsciousness said:

You are mistaking intimacy with comfort bro. This is why this whole thing is a big cope.

Yes, men are biased by sex goggle lenses, but women are biased as well. That's why, respectfully, a lot of their advice regarding getting them is not worth listening to, because their advice is never aimed towards how to get a woman to have sex with you. Sex is the only real gateway to relationship, without that you mostly have some awakward form of friendship at best.

And I'm not talking about getting laid here. Or getting into a relationship. I'm talking about finding a compatible person to begin with. Then we talk about this other stuff. 

In case there is a lack of clarity relative to the problem-statement of this thread, I want to clear that up. 

And, there is also a big difference between intimacy and having a relationship. Arranged-marriages are not intimate, for example. There can be a big discrepancy between their personalities. The point of dating is to find love. Otherwise, there are plenty of relationships where the transactions could work, but the people can't stand each other for a second. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Leo Gura]

On 5/14/2023 at 1:55 AM, Kshantivadin said:

Do you think men and women can be friends? Do you see any value in this? Or is it about "small talk" and "shallow social crap" 

Of course they can be friends. That's what the friendzone is.

On 5/14/2023 at 2:19 AM, mr_engineer said:

@Leo Gura Then how do you explain the phenomenon in which she has a toxic relationship and she opens up to her guy-friends about it? Guys who she has friendzoned? 

What is there to explain?

Obviously in a toxic relationship she cannot go to her boyfriend for help, so she turns to others.

[Princess Arabia]

Females usually go to their female friends to discuss their toxic sexual relationships and talk to their male (friend-zone) friends about their toxic female friends.

[Leo Gura]

Friendzone is not necessarily a bad thing. If you want it. I am not saying you shouldn't be friends with girls. Just be clear with yourself what you want from each girl you socialize with. Then there's no problem.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Baby Fox]

I once convinced myself that is not good to have non-sexual female partners until I lost my keys coming from a nightclub. The only one who gave me a couch to sleep was female friend from which I cut off all connections. The moral of the story is a friend can save your life doesn't matter if you can sleep with them or not.

[Leo Gura]

On 5/16/2023 at 1:12 AM, Twentyfirst said:

What if you do want to be more than friends because there is attraction and love but at the same time its literally fine with you to just be friends so if it's not broke don't fix it?

This is too wishy-washy and leads to confusion and awkwardness.