Hardkill

Women were the first in history to learn the art of seduction

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According to Robert Greene, who is the author of the book, The Art of Seduction, it was actually women who were the first in all of history who first learned how to seduce men before men learned how to seduce women. Cleopatra of course is prime example of a woman in history who used her great ability to seduce men to rise to power herself. Other well known examples of women who use their seduction to rise to the top including Anne Boleyn, the 2nd wife of Henry VIII, Agrippina, the Powerful Roman Empress, Harriette Wilson, Agnès Sorel, etc. They weren't just physically beautiful, they also learned how to sexually appeal to men by learning game.

 

Furthermore, many of the sexiest female celebrities, most successful female strippers, and top female pornstars out there since the 1900s didn't just become rich and famous simply because of how hot they look. They also learned the skills to seduce tons and tons of men. Listen to female dating coach, Kezia Noble, talk about how they have been some female strippers who look somewhat above average actually but were able to hook men much better than the other female strippers who were the 9s and 10s but didn't have the sexual charisma:

 

If that was true then why haven't there been a lot of women these days in our modern era, especially with the current rise of feminism in every developed country around the world, who approach, make the first moves, and flirt hard with the men they talk to?

Edited by Hardkill

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5 hours ago, Hardkill said:

If that was true then why haven't there been a lot of women these days in our modern era, especially with the current rise of feminism in every developed country around the world, who approach, make the first moves, and flirt hard with the men they talk to?

Yes, women have created the art of seduction, what men today call "game" and ironically use it on women.

Today, women don't have a motive or a reason to seduce men since women have more power in society than they had in the past. If they can survive on their own, get education and earn money, there is no point in seduction of men. Especially when most men aren't very good with women and don't bring much value to women.

For women, in the past it was much more beneficial to be able to seduce men because they had more power and resources, it was impossible for women to gain power on their own. Their only way to be rich or gain more power was either to be born to a rich family or to get married to a rich man.

Today it's different and thanks to the feminist revolution, women have the freedom to choose whom to sleep with or have a relationship with.

The bowl turned over, and because men crave women' affection and sex, now they have to learn how to make women want to be with them.

 

 


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@Hardkill @Lila9 it's not like Cleopatra did cold approach though...

I think women still behave in the same way as they did, they just do it in their own way. Which is more subtle than being explicitly sexual or making a first move (unless they are a stripper or pornstar, etc., as in the example above).

I don't see why would anything change significantly with time if those things are supposed to be wired deep inside of us.

Also, what you probably imagine is a bunch of girls fighting for some noble born prince, trying to get his attention. Which wpuld be the equivalent of girls chasing male celebrities nowadays.

There were no hoards of girls trying to seduce some peasant boy, lol. Which was like the 99% of the population.

And if you read some old books about common people lives, the dating dynamics were pretty much the same as they are now, with the guy making the first move (excluding arranged marriage situations).

So, all that is to say: I don't think that things are much different today .

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@Something Funny 

45 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

it's not like Cleopatra did cold approach though...

Of course there is a difference between female seduction and male seduction, even though they have many similarities. The reason behind the both is different.

Women' seduction techniques are mainly aimed to get more power, while men's seduction techniques are mainly aimed to get more sex. There are some exceptions though.

Male seduction, even though it existed in the past, wasn't that necessary like female seduction because men had more power over women, regarding whom to marry, how many women to have, raping women without harsh consenqunses because rape was more tolerated than today. Even within marriage. It was expected from a woman to tolerate rape of her husband for the sake of a peaceful marriage. 

Yes there are similarities in the dating world today and in the past. But there are also many differences, you can't ignore the impact of the feminist movement on the dynamic between the sexes.

Yes, there will always be women trying to seduce men, but there is a difference between trying to seduce (which many people do naturally when they are attracted to someone) and knowing how to seduce. To master it on a technical level, as a technical skill, knowing exactly what you're doing and what to expect. Same like guys here are trying to do with pick up.

Today, women have not much clue about original female seduction thechniques, and they have no incentive to learn how to seduce men on the technical level, because they can get power with working hard and developing their talents and skills. And if they need men in their lives, it's because they seek a soulmate, a real connection, true love.

Those women who do learn seduction do it because their job requires it like spy agents, actresses and women who work in the show business. Or women who plan to live at the expense of men, or women who are desperate to keep their husbands because they are too attached to them. But it's not something that a woman in the first world country is seriously considering, thinking to herself:"I will learn seduction and seduce rich men into supporting me financially to get out of poverty" lol. Even in 3rd world countries, it's much more likely for women to raise themselves alone. And how odd it's for a woman today, in the first world country, to have this style of thinking, like, sis, get a normal job or something, or education, or do anything else with your life instead of this, you got the freedom.

Unlike in the past, when knowing how to seduce powerful men was the only way, for most women, to live a decent life, to be saved from poverty.

And today women have more free choice regarding of whom to get married to, have relationship with, sex. And because women have the choice, they choose the men they want, even within marriage, they can decide to end it at any given moment. All it means that men today have more incentive to work on their seduction of women than in the past because women have gained more power in the last decades while men have lost their power over women during the last decades, that includes less control of women' sexuality.

At the end, seduction techniques are forms of manipulation on the psyche of an another person, they are aiming to gain something from the other person and they should never replace true connection between people. It might be helpful to attract the other sex and maybe even keep the attraction with some techniques but this alone never a replacement for a deep and geniune connection between people, at some point it becomes an obstacle in my humble opinion.

 

 

 

 

 


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1 hour ago, RebornConsciousness said:

That's a straight up cap tho. Most men are in relationships or are having some form of sex. LOL

Massive projection from you. Just an inverse of red pill

What country are you referring to?

For example, in the US, 63% of men are single, it doesn't smell like 'most'. 

And what about the pickup community, have you wondered why it became so popular recently? And after the feminist revolution and not prior to that?

 

2 hours ago, RebornConsciousness said:

The bowl literaly never turned over. Women always had more power over sexual selection.

If you consider forced marriages, rapes etc. valid strategies for men of the past, then I guess your point stands. But I don't tbh

I don't consider forced marriages and rapes as valid strategies, but that unfortunately what happened. Men had more control over women sexuality. If one can rape a woman without harsh consenqunses and get his sexual needs met, what motive he has to learn seduction of women?


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1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

@Lila9 dating in the 19th century be like:

Sorry, couldn't hold myself back xD

Lol, I don't know who wrote that song but I like his writing style ^_^


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@Lila9 It's true that the waves of feminism in developed have really given women such power over men sexually.

@Something Funny Ah, okay. I see your point. 

However, if women want to attract and keep the kind of men they want for a LTR, then they are also going to need to learn how to seduce men and learn the skills needed to behave and talk in a feminine manner. Unfortunately, most girls/women in first world countries don't know how to be compliant and supportive to a man they are attracted to:

 

Edited by Hardkill

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6 hours ago, RebornConsciousness said:

Dubious statistic in my opinion. I see various percentages thrown around anyway, there's a statistic that claims 31% of men AND women are single AND without a partner respectivelly. And in general, I wouldn't trust statistics that black pillers use to prove their points. There's a lot more single people than there used to be, that's for sure, and probably more single men than women, but that's because it's harder for men to get into relationships than for women.

Yes, I agree that statistics can be unreliable. Still, you claim that most men in the world are in a relationship, how do you know?

Ok, let's say that it's true, but even if a man is in a relationship with a woman it doesn't mean that he's good in building a deep intimate connection with women, which was my initial point when I said that most men aren't good with women.

6 hours ago, RebornConsciousness said:

It was never really popular, it only seemed that way for people living on the internet. Normal people, both men and women, aren't such tryhards in their dating lives. Very few dudes actually proactivelly approach women and strangers, and try to get better at social skills.

It's still more popular than ever, but even if it's not that popular compared to other things, it doesn't mean that it's not important or relevant, because many men face problems in the realm of attracting women. It's not a coincidence that Leo dedicated for this issue 3 videos.

And it's more relevant than female seduction nowdays, which was more important and relevant in the past, (but not necessarily popular too).

Things like studying seduction probobly will never be mainstream or popular because people have lots of prejudice about people who are intrested in it. But it doesn't mean that it's not valubale. And if a certain thing is mainstream and popular it doesn't mean that it's necessariliy valubale.

6 hours ago, RebornConsciousness said:

Feminism did not change the fundamental dynamic between men and women - that the man has to take the innitiative and the woman is mostly a passive chooser. The only thing that changed, is that women gained more freedom, that's all.

I don't agree, I think that the man who has to take the initiative is maybe the only thing that didn't change. The rest of the things did change. Men have lost their power over women in various aspects while women have gained more power in society and more sexual freedom, the dating scene couldn't remine the same.

 

6 hours ago, RebornConsciousness said:

You couldn't just rape a woman willy nilly, not even in medieval age. The punishment for that was brutal. Your views on this are a bit naive

I don't think so. Maybe it's more naive to assume that women could just complain about rape and someone would immediately punish the rapist.

Even nowdays it's not the case and women who got raped have to go through a draining process in the court.

6 hours ago, RebornConsciousness said:

But rape was still technically a crime, very harsh at that.

Yes, technically, raping a woman was considered damaging a property. But many times there was a gap between the law and it's enforcement in the real world. 

 

6 hours ago, RebornConsciousness said:

If you think about it, women back then didn't have much power in choosing and couldn't reject the man so easilly, but men also couldn't just date casually or have much of a choice either. The arranged marriages were, at the higher level (noblemen, royalty etc.) mostly about power and influence, and at the lower level (peasants, regular people in towns and castles), simply about continuing the bloodline and producing children. It was never about the human happiness and free choice. So the entire dating dynamic was unnatural, therefore not really comparable to today's one, in which people have their own free will and agency.

Freedom of choice in the finite world will always be limited and very relative. Yes, men had a limited choice too but from my understanding, in comparison to women in the past they had more freedom of choice.

Edited by Lila9

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