In meditation should 1 focus on pleasant feeling, emptiness or breath? ?

[playdoh]

In meditation, should one focus on a pleasant feeling that arises such as joy (1st Jhana), our ‘inner body’, or the breath? ?

I was just reading about the 8 jhanas and am amazed (why isn’t this discussed more in this forum or by Leo or the ascended masters?). Even the first jhana seems ‘heavenly’ to me. It says to focus on and stay on a pleasant feeling that arises such as joy or a smile. When I did it today in my meditation it didn’t feel natural so I went to the emptiness feeling I was feeling behind and stayed there. Although let me tell you one of my practices right now is cultivating more joy in my lyfe so I would love for this to work. 

Or should we focus on the breath, or is the breath just a tool to calm the body and mind enough to be able to feel into the body and feel the inner body (emptiness) inside (<is this the goal of everything, to feel what we are as often as possible, the vast emptiness, to become identified w/this our true self instead of being identified w/ the thinking mind/illusury self>?), as eckhart Tolle says? Sometimes when I go about it like this I feel my meditation is more dynamic, in that instead of a just pure concentration practice of the breath, I start w/ breath then can feel into inner body, so it’s a bit dynamic. And p.s I usually don’t feel called to stay on the feeling of emptiness for to long where I can usually go for a longer period of time if I was focusing on the breath. Been feeling a lot of space lately, so not so called to be meditating as much lately just btw. 

Again please let me know if focusing on pleasant sensation during meditation is good because I would love to cultivate more of these feelings into my daily life or better to focus on emptiness or breath. 

P.s3. doesn’t focussing on the emptiness ‘theoretically’ ‘jump’ ‘us’ to the 7th jhana of ‘nothingness’? 

Thanks! ?

[Moksha]

The meditation object is mostly irrelevant. It is merely a focal point of attention, which allows you to be without phenomenal distractions (thoughts, feelings, perceptions, and sensations). You see them come and go in the periphery, but don't identify with them.

For me, the meditation object is the inner body and I always meditate in silence. Guided meditation is only a distraction for my mind.

When you do this, spaciousness expands within, making room for the light of the absolute to shine through. Sometimes entrapped energy (what I analogize as demons) will spontaneously arise from the subconscious into that space, and being the absolute you are present with it. No need to engage with it, just be unconditional love. The boundaries of the demon begin to dissolve, releasing its trapped energy back to the source. It is harmonizing and healing.

For a meticulous guide to meditation, I recommend The Mind Illuminated by John Yates. It was quite helpful to me when I first started meditating.

[playdoh]

54 minutes ago, Moksha said:

The meditation object is mostly irrelevant. It is merely a focal point of attention, which allows you to be without phenomenal distractions (thoughts, feelings, perceptions, and sensations). You see them come and go in the periphery, but don't identify with them.

For me, the meditation object is the inner body and I always meditate in silence. Guided meditation is only a distraction for my mind.

When you do this, spaciousness expands within, making room for the light of the absolute to shine through. Sometimes entrapped energy (what I analogize as demons) will spontaneously arise from the subconscious into that space, and being the absolute you are present with it. No need to engage with it, just be unconditional love. The boundaries of the demon begin to dissolve, releasing its trapped energy back to the source. It is harmonizing and healing.

For a meticulous guide to meditation, I recommend The Mind Illuminated by John Yates. It was quite helpful to me when I first started meditating.

Thank you!

how about this part?
“is the goal of everything, to feel what we are as often as possible, the vast emptiness, to become identified w/this our true self instead of being identified w/ the thinking mind/illusury self?”

[Moksha]

59 minutes ago, playdoh said:

“is the goal of everything, to feel what we are as often as possible, the vast emptiness, to become identified w/this our true self instead of being identified w/ the thinking mind/illusury self?”

Basically, yes. Realizing the absolute within goes beyond feeling and emptiness, but those are just pointers anyway. In meditation, you first realize what you are not (your thoughts, feelings, body, perceptions, etc.). It is a negative process of discarding the transient layers of the self.

When the absolute within you is ready, it realizes itself. This is the positive process of being the infinite light of the absolute. Often it happens in meditation, but it happens through other practices too (contemplation, psychedelics, and my personal favorite - suffering). Regardless of the venue, the realization continually deepens within your existence until it is perpetual.

[playdoh]

2 hours ago, Moksha said:

Basically, yes. Realizing the absolute within goes beyond feeling and emptiness, but those are just pointers anyway. In meditation, you first realize what you are not (your thoughts, feelings, body, perceptions, etc.). It is a negative process of discarding the transient layers of the self.

When the absolute within you is ready, it realizes itself. This is the positive process of being the infinite light of the absolute. Often it happens in meditation, but it happens through other practices too (contemplation, psychedelics, and my personal favorite - suffering). Regardless of the venue, the realization continually deepens within your existence until it is perpetual.

Thank you so much ?

And I meant to ask about the jhana technique, feeling and keeping a pleasant sensation. What do you think about this? Do you think it’s a good way of experiencing these ‘positive’emotions more in one’s life? 

[tuku747]

No focal point.

Simply allow the focal length to expand.

 

 

 

[Moksha]

22 hours ago, playdoh said:

And I meant to ask about the jhana technique, feeling and keeping a pleasant sensation. What do you think about this? Do you think it’s a good way of experiencing these ‘positive’emotions more in one’s life? 

You're welcome ? Anything can be a meditation object, even a pleasant sensation, but to me it seems not the most suitable. There is the risk of identifying with the sensation, and also every sensation is transient. Breathing and the inner body are always there, providing a more stable anchor for the mind. It creates the space for attending to the absolute, which is far deeper and more fulfilling than any sensation can be.

[BipolarGrowth]

Emptiness and the 7th Jhana type nothingness are typically pointing to different things in Buddhism. Emptiness is that that things lack inherent existence. This ties in quite strongly with dependent origination as well. Nothingness is closer to tuning into more fine and subtle sensations or rather tuning all sensations to reveal more subtle aspects of experience than what is found in boundless space and boundless consciousness (5th & 6th jhana). 
 

Meditating on the breath and jhana are part of the same meditation process that the Buddha taught. I’ve even heard from a monk of some decades that this is the only meditation the Buddha is recorded to have taught in its fullness. It begins with the breath, then moves to gladdening the mind and other steps which align with jhana, then moves into investigation of characteristics found on the insight axis of mediation such as impermanence. Although not explicitly stated in the 16 steps, knowledge of the emptiness of phenomena will naturally come from Ānāpānasati (fancy old Pāli word for mindfulness of breathing) done thoroughly enough. 
 

One of the beautiful things about the Buddhist system of meditation and interpreting awakening is that the whole system and its parts are nicely interwoven with essentially all of the other parts. There is not one right technique or best technique. The technique which you use, find great results from, and enjoy is the “proper” technique. Some do suggest that sticking with one technique is important while others support the method of hitting this process from tons of different angles. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. 
 

All the way from the 16 steps of Ānāpānasati, to the 5 strengths, the precepts, the noble eightfold path, the four noble truths, etc. support each other in an elegant way. And more recent forms of Buddhism illuminate plenty of other relevant aspects of the path connecting back to the original teachings in their own ways. 
 

Buddhism has the express goal of finding for oneself the path to end suffering. Jhana and increasing sukha (happiness/satisfaction) are incredibly integral parts of this. The author and great teacher Rob Burbea suggested that one should have at least as much jhana/samadhi meditation as insight meditation if not a ratio even further geared toward jhana. 
 

True 1st jhana is absolutely nothing to scoff at. It is heavenly and psychedelic-tier bliss done with your own mind. Having that skill is immensely valuable. 
 

Anyway, I kind of got on a rant there lol. Hope this helps. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by BipolarGrowth

[Giulio Bevilacqua]

No focus