Why we need religion

[Nilsi]

Just now, zurew said:

If you think you are that knowledgeable lets see you defining all the necessary characteristics for a grand narrative generator.

I dont need a "grand narrative generator," when I can just go out and meet my needs.

Do you make as much money as you want to? Fuck the kind of girl you would like to? Get the respect from your peers you know you deserve? Be acknowledged for your creative contributions?...

Doesnt take a genius to figure out how to meet those needs. But, by all means, keep shuffling jargon around in your Platonic dreamworld.

[zurew]

1 minute ago, Nilsi said:

I dont need a "grand narrative generator," when I can just go out and meet my needs.

We already established in this thread, that grand narrative means meeting all the dynamics and variables that are necessary to meet your human needs. So if we go with that how would a grand narrative generator look like?

5 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Do you make as much money as you want to? Fuck the kind of girl you would like to? Get the respect from your peers you know you deserve? Be acknowledged for your creative contributions?...

This is what I was talking about. Most people have very vague ideas about what those needs are , and can't define properly the patterns for human needs (grand narrative). This is not a surprise, because this is a really fucking complex problem, and this overall thread was about to establish that there is a need for it ,for this exact reason.

[Nilsi]

1 minute ago, zurew said:

This is what I was talking about. Most people have very vague ideas about what those needs are , and can't define properly the patterns for human needs (grand narrative). This is not a surprise, because this is a really fucking complex problem, and this overall thread was about to establish that there is a need for it ,for this exact reason.

Thats horseshit.

You know very well what your needs are, but since you are too lazy and complacent to go after them, you escape into the realm of jargon and complexity.

I once did the same thing, which is why your little song and dance isnt fooling me.

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Nilsi said:

That's precisely what I was saying.

I don't see that. 

 

3 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Now that's gibberish.

 

You're using the term "grand narrative" in a very idiosyncratic way.

Remember that my thread is about a YouTube video where that concept was being talked about and which I told you to watch and which I explictly referred to multiple times?

[Nilsi]

19 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I don't see that. 

 

Remember that my thread is about a YouTube video where that concept was being talked about and which I told you to watch and which I explictly referred to multiple times?

Why are you so obsessed with this video? 

Lyotard's term for the totalizing narratives or metadiscourses of modernity which have provided ideologies with a legitimating philosophy of history. For example, the grand narratives of the Enlightenment, democracy, and Marxism. Hayden White (b.1928), an American historian, suggests that there are four Western master narratives: Greek fatalism, Christian redemptionism, bourgeois progressivism, and Marxist utopianism. Lyotard argues that such authoritarian universalizing narratives are no longer viable in postmodernity, which heralds the emergence of ‘little narratives’ (or micronarratives, petits récits): localized representations of restricted domains, none of which has a claim to universal truth status. Critics suggest that this could be seen as just another grand narrative, and some have seen it as Eurocentric.

This is what the term means. Why would I listen to some random on YouTube explain the world to me? 

In any case, why choose such a loaded term, if you are supposedly referring to something completely different?

[Nilsi]

29 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I don't see that. 

 

Remember that my thread is about a YouTube video where that concept was being talked about and which I told you to watch and which I explictly referred to multiple times?

I literally cant watch this video. The level of degeneracy is too much. 

How disrespectful and intellectually shallow do you have to be to play a fucking computer game while discussing philosophy?

And then the sloppiness with which he talks - and of course the fucking blue hair?!

How can you watch this garbage? 

[Zedman]

Well structured, mind opening and informative. What is this destiny guy doing in the video?

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Why are you so obsessed with this video? 

Lyotard's term for the totalizing narratives or metadiscourses of modernity which have provided ideologies with a legitimating philosophy of history. For example, the grand narratives of the Enlightenment, democracy, and Marxism. Hayden White (b.1928), an American historian, suggests that there are four Western master narratives: Greek fatalism, Christian redemptionism, bourgeois progressivism, and Marxist utopianism. Lyotard argues that such authoritarian universalizing narratives are no longer viable in postmodernity, which heralds the emergence of ‘little narratives’ (or micronarratives, petits récits): localized representations of restricted domains, none of which has a claim to universal truth status. Critics suggest that this could be seen as just another grand narrative, and some have seen it as Eurocentric.

This is what the term means. Why would I listen to some random on YouTube explain the world to me? 

In any case, why choose such a loaded term, if you are supposedly referring to something completely different?

The reason I made this thread is because I wanted to talk about the video, because I liked the points the guy made in it. He happened to use the term "grand narrative", and I went with that. If I wanted to talk about Lyotard's definition of grand narratives, I would've made a thread about that.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

19 minutes ago, Zedman said:

Well structured, mind opening and informative. What is this destiny guy doing in the video?

Just being Destiny.

[Danioover9000]

@Zedman

28 minutes ago, Zedman said:

Well structured, mind opening and informative. What is this destiny guy doing in the video?

   The Destiny guy is the blue haired person, not the caller. He's mostly released this video but to me he edited stuff out of it so without the original we actually can't honestly judge and discern accurately if he's doing this with good faith or bad faith intentions. Clearly him bringing this caller is more for optics and rhetoric appeal, to look intellectually superior and signal to his competitors to look at me, I'm willing to bring this philosopher and am so smart. I don't know, but it feels mostly manipulative to me because Destiny is a Determinist and Nihilist himself, with a different worldview to the caller.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Zedman]

@Carl-Richard @Danioover9000 guys I am sorry I was trolling a bit. What I was trying to say is intelligence gap between caller and Destiny. Its based on the fact that I hate people being obsessed with e-personalities that are unintelligent and this video shows exactly that.

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

I literally cant watch this video. The level of degeneracy is too much. 

How disrespectful and intellectually shallow do you have to be to play a fucking computer game while discussing philosophy?

I technically agree, but also consider the context. The dude is a gamer and people call in while he is gaming. Most callers are casual, but sometimes you get gems like this. I would also prefer if he was always fully engaged, but that is just how he is. He is obviously not a shining beacon of virtue, but I prefer Destiny over any other daily content YouTube entertainer.

 

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

and of course the fucking blue hair?!

It's a funny meme

Edited April 1, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Danioover9000]

@Zedman

20 minutes ago, Zedman said:

@Carl-Richard @Danioover9000 guys I am sorry I was trolling a bit. What I was trying to say is intelligence gap between caller and Destiny. Its based on the fact that I hate people being obsessed with e-personalities that are unintelligent and this video shows exactly that.

   So, are you saying that Destiny is less or more intelligent than the caller? I'm not sure what problem you have exactly here.

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I actually agree, but also consider the context. The dude is a gamer and people call in while he is gaming. Most callers are casual, but sometimes you get gems like this. You should just ignore the game. I would also prefer if he was always fully engaged, but that is just how he is. He is obviously not a shining beacon of virtue, but I prefer Destiny over any other daily content YouTube entertainer.

 

The blue hair is a funny meme He initially did it for charity, but now everybody recognizes him as "the guy with the blue hair", so it's probably a good brand move to keep it. It also hides his power level when he speaks with conservatives, because they'll expect an emotional snowflake, but instead they get an autistic debate lord.

   I agree it's context dependent, but considering that Destiny is now a big influencer and has a huge sizeable fan base, people may mistake him for being very intelligent when in fact he's not as intelligent as a sage or Zen master. Compared to the caller the caller I say has more wisdom and integrity than Destiny.

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

41 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The reason I made this thread is because I wanted to talk about the video, because I liked the points the guy made in it. He happened to use the term "grand narrative", and I went with that. If I wanted to talk about Lyotard's definition of grand narratives, I would've made a thread about that.

   This goes to show the relativity of language. What grand narratives mean to you is different from my interpretation of grand narratives, which is different from a philosopher's interpretation of grand narratives, which is different to a spiritual master who spent 50+ years of contemplating grand narratives, and so on.

   Epistemically speaking, which of us, out of the billions of people out there, has correct validation and interpretation of the words 'grand narrative'?

[Zedman]

@Danioover9000 Do you really not see the gap? For me personally Destiny guy is like a little baby in this conversation. He barely undersdands these topics. Same as other left or right e-celebs. But fine. This video left an impression on me and I bet many others so good job Destiny?

[Danioover9000]

@Zedman

5 minutes ago, Zedman said:

@Danioover9000 Do you really not see the gap? For me personally Destiny guy is like a little baby in this conversation. He barely undersdands these topics. Same as other left or right e-celebs. But fine. This video left an impression on me and I bet many others so good job Destiny?

   Fuck Destiny, why would I and anyone else have him as a role modal? This polygon manipulative prick is unworthy of being compared to the greats, the legends and geniuses that actually helped mankind move forward. Nothing personal to those who are Bi-sexual or polyamorous, but this dude weaponizes and justifies both cheating and luring in smaller sexy streamers just for the clicks and views.

   With that out of the way, what are your thoughts on this grand narrative the caller was describing?

[Danioover9000]

@zurew

5 hours ago, zurew said:

We already established in this thread, that grand narrative means meeting all the dynamics and variables that are necessary to meet your human needs. So if we go with that how would a grand narrative generator look like?

This is what I was talking about. Most people have very vague ideas about what those needs are , and can't define properly the patterns for human needs (grand narrative). This is not a surprise, because this is a really fucking complex problem, and this overall thread was about to establish that there is a need for it ,for this exact reason.

   Wouldn't they in this context refer to grand narratives as environments and geography of a country? The environment shaping other people and other people being the sum of yourself?

[Danioover9000]

@Nilsi

5 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Thats horseshit.

You know very well what your needs are, but since you are too lazy and complacent to go after them, you escape into the realm of jargon and complexity.

I once did the same thing, which is why your little song and dance isnt fooling me.

   A song of Ice and Fire?

[Carl-Richard]

20 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Carl-Richard

   This goes to show the relativity of language. What grand narratives mean to you is different from my interpretation of grand narratives, which is different from a philosopher's interpretation of grand narratives, which is different to a spiritual master who spent 50+ years of contemplating grand narratives, and so on.

   Epistemically speaking, which of us, out of the billions of people out there, has correct validation and interpretation of the words 'grand narrative'?

There is no absolute interpretation. The best you can do is to know which interpretations you want to use for which goals you want to pursue.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Carl-Richard