Leo? Is Islam True about Hell and Heaven?

[confusedman]

Hello Leo and People...
I'm So Glad that you are reading this. Recently, I had this Question about my Existence and Stumbled across Islam.
And Islam Describes hell and Heaven. Paradise exists for believers and Hellfire for the unbelievers of Islam.

Is it true there exists hell and Heaven?
Isn't Hell and Heaven still Materialistic
Will I be Punished in Eternal Hell Fire?
Why does Allah want to Punish the disbelievers?
Why does Allah even have biases like hell and Heaven, if he is the singularity?
Do Materialistic worlds like Hell and Heaven Exist?
Does hell mean that I get to experience all my sadness and pain continuously forever which I had experienced before Death?
Quran claims itself to be Perfect. Leo, Do you think Quran is perfect? 
 Leo, If you think Quran is perfect, then why haven't you converted to Islam yet?
If you think Islam is not perfect, Then say it to me, I can Do other work without having a Headache.
Leo, you believe Humans are God, but Quran Preaches Allah is the only god, so we need to submit to Allah.
or does that mean we need to submit our will to ourselves?
Or Am I Just anthropomorphizing Allah?


More Importantly, Do I have to Convert to Islam to Follow all their practices and Avoid Hell, which is still Materialistic? 

Please Answer My Questions...? This will clear my Headache...
I have seen your video on Understanding Islam, ya I do agree about its ideology against Materialism.

People let's Have a Discussion.. While Leo Sees this thread.

I haven't raised this thread, To poke others and call their name, Everyone has to freely express their opinion. don't Call Out names.
 

[TheNovice]

Hell and heaven are metaphors for states of Consciousness. 

Allah ARE and is creating the people that are "disbelievers".

Sin is when people do things that separate their consciousness from god and suffer because the separation itself creates suffering which is Hell.

Not because some powerful separate being somewhere is judging and condemning them.  

You don't need to convert to Islam, ironically you will live in hell if you do because mainstream Islam is not concerned with absolute truth or changing one's state of consciousness. It does the opposite, filling the mind and perception of its followers with beliefs and stories. 

Learning about Esoteric religion is a mindfuck, but you will get it after a while. And then after you got it intellectually the real work starts with integrating it into the level of being. The mental model of Allah is not Allah.

 

[Vibroverse]

The Quran is a book that was written in an era that is far away from our time, and it speaks to those people and their questions, and it is filtered, even if it is God that is talking there, by the mind of Mohammad, if he really even existed, and the belief systems and culture etc of the era. 

Many things in the Quran doesn't make sense to me, and it feels biased and angry and like bigotry, but, I think, it doesn't even make so much sense to argue about it, because ethics, even if there are some universals in it, in my humble opinion, is a culturally filtered perception. 

And I don't believe in Heaven and Hell, in the way the Quran talks about it. I think Mohammad, perhaps, was trying to protect people from, what he perceived to be evil, and some of those ideas I agree with, and some of those I don't, and he told them that they will be rewarded if they do good. 

It is a very common feature in the human thought, to try to motivate people through the ideas of punishment and reward, and he might have even had good intentions, I don't know. But the idea of an eternal hell if you don't pray five times in a day, for instance, or if you have premarital sex, etc, doesn't make sense to me. 

I think all the religions are talking to the dynamics of the culture, and point in time in history, etc, that they are born in. There are, I think, some universals in religions, for they are the universals, I think, of existence anyways, but most of them, probably, aren't relevant for me. 

Maybe it, somehow, was helpful for some people in the time, but ethics and understanding are evolutionary and cultural things, and if you try to make them relevant for all times and places, it just becomes a never ending bullshiting really, for, then it becomes the "evil" itself that it, probably, was once trying to fight against, if you know what I mean. 

My thought is I don't need any spokesperson for God really, because I've realized that I myself am an extension of God, and therefore I can listen to God, directly, myself, and in a way that makes sense to me in the life that I myself am living. 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Vibroverse

[confusedman]

@TheNovice I'm So thankful to you. I believed in myself and repented for my mistakes and sins in the past by actually feeling Bad and striving to work hard. But when I stumbled on Islam, Quran has these weird rules of Circumcision of Dicks (I'm not criticizing, I personally feel it's not good for my body), And had to occupy neighbouring Areas and Rule the people and make them convert to Islam, and if they don't convert, then there is Jizya(protection money as Taxes) for those neighbouring country people. And if they even don't want to pay Tax to the Islamic Country, then Islam says to kill the ruler and rule them by force. It literally says that. That  is why there were Taliban attacks, taking control over Afghanisthan and Preserving Islam because they have been brainwashed to believe that Islam is the only True Religion.
and Islam is Saying that all other religions are false and Islam is the only religion.
I think all religions are different in their own way, I appreciate all the religious beauty and buildings that they have built, truly breathtaking, and I admire them. But whenever Islam says, all other religions to be demolished and to convert to Islam, that frightens me.

See Islam is Fastest Growing Religion, with over 1.8 Billion as of 2022. If this grows even faster.
Islam will be having more people following it, IF there are more people then More Nations will Take Islam as a law like most Islamic countries does now. Then if there are more Islamic countries, then there will be more Demolishing of other Religions and their Scriptures. Then all the Beauty is lost. I am Afraid, that other Religious HIstory will be lost, which are truly Beautiful.

THis was the Reason, I was sceptical about Islam.
I mean NO Negative Intentions, I'm Just trying to See the Scenario.

[LSD-Rumi]

@confusedman a couple of years ago I was reading the Quran and I was reading this chapter called "Al Rahman", the all merciful and this chapter contains a detailed descreption of heaven. Women, servant kids, food, palaces, rivers of honey and wine and stuff like that, and I was like " WTF is this BS, I don't want a heaven like this, I want something spiritual, I want God" and this is was one of things that made drop Quran from my consideration. It is a book for idiots, although it contains some good things, but they are not that common and certainly not that clear.

Edited September 6, 2022 by LSD-Rumi

[confusedman]

@Vibroverse Thanks for Replying.
Yeah Exactly, Quran is Outdated. Quran Needs an Update for the Modern Times. But people don't Do that.
Instead What people do is, Follow Quran as it is, just because it is mentioned in the Quran that the Quran Cant be changed.
Quran says the following:
1) Quran Can't be changed. Its verses must be unchanged and preserved. Itself states in the Quran.
2) Mohammed is the Last prophet, Which is against the other Religions.
3) Changing Quran is Haram (forbidden or proscribed by Islamic law.)

These Preserve Quran and protect itself from being Changed and if Anyone changes, then Quran also says the new prophets who come after Mohammed are not true , they are LIars   full of greed and are Jinn(Evil force against Allah)
This makes people belive what they read and their scholors.
and There is no room for believers to Question Quran which is again Haram in Islam.
Absolutely No Room for Improvement
When We say, update the Quran, They say Allah Will not Forgive you, You cannot change the allah's World.
You will be sent to Hellfire after Judgement Day, if you try so

These statements make me think, that Quran wants the Monopoly. Dominating Other Religions.

No Negative Intentions, Just Laying them Down....

Edited September 6, 2022 by confusedman

[RMQualtrough]

It's literally a book of fairytales. It's as genuine as Hansel and Gretel. Why read a book when reality is right here in front of your face?

Man riding up into the clouds on a horse? I don't see it. What I see is a beach and sea and railings and promenade paving. I see some janitor dude in orange trawling along a dustbin. I see a memorial plaque on the bench I'm sat on. All of this is around me, I don't need fairytales about a man flying around on a horse.

[Vibroverse]

11 minutes ago, confusedman said:

@Vibroverse Thanks for Replying.
Yeah Exactly, Quran is Outdated. Quran Needs an Update for the Modern Times. But people don't Do that.
Instead What people do is, Follow Quran as it is, just because it is mentioned in the Quran that the Quran Cant be changed.
Quran says the following:
1) Quran Can't be changed. Its verses must be unchanged and preserved. Itself states in the Quran.
2) Mohammed is the Last prophet, Which is against the other Religions.
3) Changing Quran is Haram (forbidden or proscribed by Islamic law.)

These Preserve Quran and protect itself from being Changed and if Anyone changes, then Quran also says the new prophets who come after Mohammed are not true , they are LIars   full of greed and are Jinn(Evil force against Allah)
This makes people belive what they read and their scholors.
and There is no room for believers to Question Quran which is again Haram in Islam.
Absolutely No Room for Improvement
When We say, update the Quran, They say Allah Will not Forgive you, You cannot change the allah's World.
You will be sent to Hellfire after Judgement Day, if you try so

These statements make me think, that Quran wants the Monopoly. Dominating Other Religions.

No Negative Intentions, Just Laying them Down....

Yeah, I think Mohammad's intention, maybe, was good, but he was a human after all, if he existed, and he was a part of a culture with his own biases and beliefs about the world. 

[confusedman]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@confusedman a couple of years ago I was reading the Quran and I was reading this chapter called "Al Rahman", the all merciful and this chapter contains a detailed descreption of heaven. Women, servant kids, food, palaces, rivers of honey and wine and stuff like that, and I was like " WTF is this BS, I don't want a heaven like this, I want something spiritual, I want God" and this is was one of things that made drop Quran from my consideration. It is a book for idiots, although it contains some good things, but they are not that common and certainly not that clear.

yeah, Its all Stories to Attract People to Islam,
And Some People interpret it as Heavens are Different from person to person.
Heaven is full of what you wanted in your Previous LIfe.
They Interpret it that way.
But one thing that Boggles me is that Quran says Heaven is Eternal life of Joy and No issues.
This doesn't make sense, How can you Enjoy when there are no issues?
Peace Removes Happiness and Hate.
Or even if it is the Peaceful Heaven that Islam is Talking about Peace can still be obtained in this Realm too by increasing Awareness and Reaching High Stages of Awakening, which many people miss out on.

I think Quran Doesn't talk about increasing consciousness and Awareness and Reaching a Higher Level of Enlightenment and awakening.
It Doesn't Talk about this. This is a Bummer because other Religions Describe this Enlightenment stuff Beautifully this attaining peace in this Realm, But Islam Donesn't.
 

Edited September 6, 2022 by confusedman

[confusedman]

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

It's literally a book of fairytales. It's as genuine as Hansel and Gretel. Why read a book when reality is right here in front of your face?

Man riding up into the clouds on a horse? I don't see it. What I see is a beach and sea and railings and promenade paving. I see some janitor dude in orange trawling along a dustbin. I see a memorial plaque on the bench I'm sat on. All of this is around me, I don't need fairytales about a man flying around on a horse.

The Beach You are Talking about Is much more Peaceful than Heaven of Isalm which includes Virgins and Infinite Lust.

[RMQualtrough]

1 minute ago, confusedman said:

The Beach You are Talking about Is much more Peaceful than Heaven of Isalm which includes Virgins and Infinite Lust.

The Quran is like fanfiction written by a teenaged boy. It's ridiculous.

The beach is also true. Not anymore, because now it's a balcony and trees and the sound of the wind. But this is what truly is right now. No virgins and infinite lust. Everyone has direct and permanent access to reality. Everything outside of that is fantasy and fairytales.

[confusedman]

8 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

The Quran is like fanfiction written by a teenaged boy. It's ridiculous.

The beach is also true. Not anymore, because now it's a balcony and trees and the sound of the wind. But this is what truly is right now. No virgins and infinite lust. Everyone has direct and permanent access to reality. Everything outside of that is fantasy and fairytales.

yep got it.... Thanks

 

[LSD-Rumi]

@confusedman Islam, christianity and Judiasm lack non-dual philosophy and they replace it with God as an authoritarian figure so yeah don't expect much when the core philosophy is this corrupted. 

[Breakingthewall]

Of all the false religions, Islam is the most false and the most stupid. it is seen with absolute clarity that it is an invention of a dictator to monopolize power. a smart guy who saw in his travels how Christianity united and made the West strong, and made his religion to measure. a religion to subdue idiots and use them as pawns. Zero spirituality, slavery of the mind. one of the worst cancers that humans suffer today. pure fear. complete negativity.

[LSD-Rumi]

@Breakingthewall actually what you wrote is wrong.

Muhammad didn't lie and he actually believed he was a prophet. His higher self used angels, and religious texts to help guide him to achieve his vision, which was to unite the Arab under a single authority. I once entertained the possibility of him lying to attain power so he can unite Arabian people and form a country, but from my understanding to his personality, he was too pure to do such things. He used to go and meditate in caves for days every month before he saw an angel and his journey started. So I think he was deceived by the universe to serve the universe or at least the Arabian people.

Edited September 6, 2022 by LSD-Rumi

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

He used to go and meditate in caves for days every month before he saw an angel and his journey started. So I think he was deceived by the universe to serve the universe.

He was a conqueror, he traded slaves, he had multiple wives, one of them was 9 years old...idk. at least he discouraged castrating slaves

Edited September 6, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Lol. He was a king and he literallydidn't conquer anyone but those who attacked him and those who betrayed him. Marriage was a way to make bonds between tribes and countries back then. He didn't abolish slavery because he couldn't, but he preached against it, I think he didn't have any slaves actually except for some women who were gifted to him which was seen as a normal thing back then.

yeah yeah, to be a tyrant he wasn't too bad, he treated the slaves better than the average, the slaves he raped later he granted them certain rights. he was not a demon, he was a fairly fair guy for the time, but he had the same of enlightened mystic as putin

[confusedman]

7 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Lol. He was a king and he literallydidn't conquer anyone but those who attacked him and those who betrayed him.

But Quran Says :
Muslim Conquests India and Loot India, will be avoiding Hellfire. It promotes Conquest by Force. India didn't even attack.
And they Looted India, Just because Quran says so, to Avoid Hellfire. He surely wants to Dominate, why Conquest of India if he is a Peaceful Guy?

[confusedman]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@confusedman Islam, christianity and Judiasm lack non-dual philosophy and they replace it with God as an authoritarian figure so yeah don't expect much when the core philosophy is this corrupted. 

That's Insightful, Thank you!

And are Angels a real thing after Hitting a Certain Level of Enlightenment or Awakening

Edited September 6, 2022 by confusedman

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@confusedman Islam, christianity and Judiasm lack non-dual philosophy and they replace it with God as an authoritarian figure so yeah don't expect much when the core philosophy is this corrupted. 

I think Christianity is quite different. It has very insightful metaphors, it is deeply spiritual, the trinity can easily be interpreted as non-duality, his descriptions of god are accurate, jesus is the paradigm of the enlightened. 

Christianity is the central pillar of Western culture. it is not perfect but it tends towards justice and individual freedom (without achieving it, of course). what Christianity preaches is current and totally in accordance with real enlightenment. 

In fact I think the sufis were christians in deep

Edited September 6, 2022 by Breakingthewall