Girlfriend misunderstands spirituality; how to communicate without closed-mindedness?

[Koeke]

So I have a girlfriend who has a lot more common sense than most people but she cringes at and ridicules spirituality. I have been telling myself that spirituality is about truth and that it doesn't really matter "what side you're on" (it is about vertical growth, not horizontal differences) and so whether she is "on the side of spirituality" seemed irrelevant to me. She only sees the shallow side of how spirituality is understood in our culture (the vast majority), is rightly put off by it, and is closed off to the valid and deeper truths explained that simply aren't probed as much in non-spiritual contexts. It felt off but I haven't confronted her about it much because I say to myself she is just making fun of shallow people, which I find childish but kept brushing away. 

One question I have is: Of what significance is this thing we might call spirituality, as an idea to be identified with, useful/a catalyst in terms of getting more conscious? As a general direction of who we want to be and what we want to look into in our contemplations?

I guess it isn't all that much. I mean, you can substitute spirituality for : radical but grounded skepticism, radical introspection, not-knowing, among many others. 

When I said in a frustrated way that I have meditated my ass of for almost 2 years (average of 3 hours a day) to more or less say: "I think this spirituality thing is important, am I deluded? Am I the same as these people? Do I open my mouth too to pretend I'm so spiritual? How do you reconcile that?" She initially dismissed it but later said she was open to read something I think good.

I haven't recommended her anything because she didn't mention this again. I guess I'm just too passive here, too much of a 'good boy' who tries not to be seen 'preaching' and being defensive.

 

So what is this relationship between vertical growth and horizontal differences? Why are there memes that seem to correspond at every stage? Why do people who embrace spiritual ideas generally seem so dumb and shallow compared to a lot of people who don't, while at the same time the spiritual ideas, actually understood, are the deepest? (I think I'm overestimating the degree of difference between dumbness and shallowness between these two groups here. Also I am from the Netherlands where most people aren't really open-minded to esoteric spirituality. Could be worse tho.) 

When she asked me about spirituality and why it is true or important (don't remember) I couldn't answer. I don't have a ready-made answer for such a question and at that time nothing came to mind because, for a while now, I kinda want to move past seeing spirituality as a lifestyle choice comparing me to others or as an intellectual position to be defended philosophically. So I felt a bit trapped there.

It's true tho, these spiritual ideas and out-there philosophical ideas take uncontrolled reign over my mind a lot of the time. Simply because they feel impressive and somehow more true; the problem is that, in the midst I lose sight of my core sense of truth. This causes me to be scattered, frustrated, idealistic, ungrounded, and above all, unable to actually contemplate. However the results of these contemplations (higher levels of consciousness) demand such a strong level of authenticity making me feel very lost. Operating and contemplating from this grounded core just leaves me speechless when it comes to spirituality.

How to communicate that spirituality is important to me and that dismissing it implies dismissing me (to a certain degree) without being and coming across as closed-minded? 

 

I guess I'm asking for relationship advice, intellectual clarification, insights into culture and all-round feedback on my authenticity and how I view spirituality. Anything you might want to add  

Excuse my ramblings and thanks for reading

[mr_engineer]

A lot of religious people say the same things about people who are atheists. 'They just read the scriptures to prove it wrong and miss so much of the value and good stuff in it'! Without realizing that their way is not the best way or the only way of growth. 

If I were you, I'd ask myself the following questions- how does she grow herself? Is survival more important to her than growth? Or is growth more important? Cuz if survival is more important, that could be a dealbreaker for you! Cuz such a person will not support you in your hero's journey when push comes to shove, they'll oppose it. And, once I understood how she grows herself, I'd show her how to apply spirituality there. I'd use those examples to teach her spirituality!! 

Most people primarily care about their lives and their agendas. And, the reason you don't have a clear-cut answer as to why you care about spirituality, is that you are unconscious of this about yourself. You maybe haven't gotten tangible results in your life from this work yet, so you can't prove it to her. So, before explaining it to her, I'd figure this out for myself first if I were in your shoes. Then I'd show her how she can apply it, to improve the results of her life! 

Spirituality can be a big strength in relationships. You just need to know how to use it. 

HTH!!

[lizz_luna]

I was in a very healthy relationship. The only main difference throughout our relationship was our views towards life spiritually. Him being completely grounded in science and skepticism and me being openminded to the spiritual world, energies, etc. At the beginning of our relationship it was very complementary and healthy but as we both grounded ourselves more into these beliefs, it became painful to be around each other because it was really hard to feel understood on both sides. If spirituality is an important value of yours and not your partner, it can definitively cause some chaos. 

Ground yourself in your values and follow your heart. Sometimes things don't make sense intellectually at first but resonate at a core level, and this can be confusing and triggering. Spirituality can have many shapes and forms, sometimes formless.  I tried to "accept him as he was", try to understand him, and do my own work to deal with this, but continued to felt this feeling more and more. Eventually we had to breakup even though we loved each other and knew that the other was a great person, but simply we were not in alignment with our core values and what we wanted to get out of life at this stage. 

Take some time to really question what do you want to get out of this, why are you with this person in the first place, why do you pursue spirituality. Communicate with your partner as much as you can and try to communicate why is this important to you. You will see your partner's maturity and commitment, if you are in alignment with these values etc. Definitively tough to do this work but can be extremely rewarding and bring so many lessons about relationships, your authentic self, etc. 

Hope this helps! Much love brother 

[Razard86]

On 8/6/2022 at 8:49 PM, JoeVolcano said:

I think you accidentally hit upon the question of all questions: What does all this mean to you?

You can't go far wrong on the path by simply trying to get that straight in your own mind.

And to the degree that you're able to get to the bottom of it for yourself, to that degree you will be able to articulate it to someone else.

Although whether or not they can hear you is a different matter.

^ Joe hit it on the head. Once you can find out what it means to YOU then you will be able to communicate it.

The key to finding answers is to ask questions. 

So you kept repeating that it is the truth. So the first question is.....what is truth?

Next question. Why does Spirituality matter? What does it provide?

How does Spirituality differ from religion?

What are the dangers/traps of Spirituality?

What is true Spirituality?

The path to knowledge is questions. Ask the right questions and you can obtain the answers you seek.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Razard86

[Yarco]

My take is pretty much the opposite of lizz_luna's above.

My partner is an atheist and it doesn't really matter or come up. I have no desire to try and convert her to anything, and she has no desire to convert me out of what she describes as "kooky bald-man cult" . Maybe she'll make an off-hand comment about what I'm watching as she walks by, or ask me wtf when I want to experiment with wearing rudraksha or rosaries or crystals, talk me out of doing psychedelics, but that's about as far as it goes.

There's only really 2 situations where I'd consider it a deal-breaker:

1. You have something akin to a Christian belief where if your partner doesn't repent or take on your beliefs, they're going to be damned to hell.

2. They try to tell you that you can't meditate, go to retreats, or whatever spiritual practice you feel like you need to do.
2b. You need them to be on board and participate in tantric sex or something as part of your practice.

Otherwise it's whatever. Don't waste your time or theirs with trying to convince them. They're going to become awakened when they die anyway, right?

Edited August 9, 2022 by Yarco

[Guest Nilsi]

Assuming you will keep growing and developing yourself, your girl will either be so inspired and intrigued, that's she will naturally become more curious and open to it; or you two will grow apart more and more.