How is life an “ultimate sandbox game” when there is an absence of free will?

[UpperMaster]

On 8/12/2022 at 2:33 AM, undeather said:

Former actualized.org admin and spiritual teacher who mainly focused on neo-advaita/no-self teachings
Leo demoted him because he lost touch with reality: https://imgur.com/3WKAELm
He then quit the forum and started his own

Holy shit bruv, didn't know this forum had backstories like that damn

[UpperMaster]

4 hours ago, Loba said:

My experiences gave me the knowledge that there is no free will, as everything has a plan, but it is disguised by an illusion of being completely random - mostly because humans do not have the ability to be able to see in as many directions as consciousness does - that under normal circumstances, we can't see the full picture into what this plan is.  What the plan is, is that the universe/God/consciousness wants to evolve to witness itself as itself through its creations and so it has been growing in consciousness, creating all sorts of offshoots and various things in order to create beings that have the capability of seeing it.  It is trying to awaken to itself, in the same way as when we grow and develop we are trying to waken to ourselves as well.  It wants to know itself through you, while you are aware of it as a part of you, and so it creates as many different situations and variables in order to do this through many, many different eyes - and eventually a few of them strike gold and can see through the game for a momentary lapse of time.

You do have the ability to get up in the morning, to go to sleep, to eat, to walk around, to live, to kill yourself, all of these things - but they are all preplanned as part of a gradual awakening process in which God unfolds its true self and unveils its majesty to its creations.  Only a limited number of people are given this gift, this miracle and it is not one to squander when you find it.  People spend their whole lives looking to be witness to the miracle of creation and never find it, so if you do, cherish it.  God will sacrifice a hundred thousand, just so a select few have the ability to witness.  You are either chosen to see, or you're not, and all of that is part of your destiny.

The good news is, I believe we are all "picked" at the end of our lives to witness this phenomenon, and that we are given back our true free will as a gift.  I believe that we have these limited lives, that some of us sacrifice knowing the truth so that others can see it - that their work isn't in vain, that we are all given this gift at some point.  That we need limitation, lack of free will and polarity in order to come to understand the meaning of the miracle of life, so that we appreciate what we are given and what we are to soon inherit.  

Nice. I am very curious to how you've experienced this? Through psychedelics? Questioning?

[Jake Chambers]

On 05/08/2022 at 10:42 PM, axiom said:

@UpperMaster Leo has, to my mind, yet to awaken fully to the reality of zero free will. 

This is false. Free will is real and this has been revealed to me in a very profound and deep awakening. Sorry to sound so arrogant but that is what you get in spiritual debates like this.

[Loba]

2 hours ago, UpperMaster said:

Nice. I am very curious to how you've experienced this? Through psychedelics? Questioning?

Back in 2016, my autoimmune disease flared up for the first and worst time and I was worried I could die from it, so I did a lot of self introspection to get myself ready for what could happen.  Grueling days, for hours, overturning everything in my psyche, and eventually I came to the point where I knew I would have to work through my fear of death as that was the predominant problem that was coming up.  So I sat with those emotions, and listened to some music while looking at a nature picture and let myself go through the fear fully, while studying everything about this picture and offering my full appreciation for the present moment.

When I did this, this mixture of letting go of my psychology, followed by going through the fear of death, followed by showing absolute appreciation for the present moment is when all of the dirt that was on my lens was cleared and I could see God right there in the picture and it said "I exist" - and what it felt to be was a single point of unified love, that was outside of spacetime, that all souls that ever were or will be were connected to and had always been connected to and what it showed to me, was that it was a sort of evolutionary process, that this was the next step in human awareness and development, to be able to live life connected to spirit in this way.  It told me that my struggling in life was a preplanned process created to force me to properly introspect so that I could let go of all of my old paradigms to allow the possibility of God's grace to enter into me, and it said that life was a miracle, that existence, that the fact that there is anything at all is absolutely amazing.  It said that the prophecy surrounding its nature is true and that its plan for its creations, what it is trying to do for us is to bring this unified quality, where we see all of creation and are connected to it and can witness its glory in everyday mundane life.  It is trying to bring a sense of heaven to earth through this process.

And that's pretty much it - I had a few other awakenings, but none were quite as clear as this first one, which was what felt to be a blessing bestowed on my life, a medal that I had earned for putting in the work.  It specifically said that everything was preplanned, that all things were working in a perfect divine order that included all the plants and animals and such things, but due to its multidimensional nature, and the singular nature of human beings, that we can't readily see this order in the chaos.

[Oppositionless]

you're free to do what you will

now if that is not the ultimate paradox

haha

Edited August 14, 2022 by Oppositionless

[UpperMaster]

@Loba This is both fascinating and motivating. I personally haven't had a spiritual experience, therefore I have no idea how it must have been for you. I appreciate you sharing.

I recently decided to be agnostic on the idea on free will, as I don't have spiritual experiences saying otherwise.

I do have some additional questions though, if you are willing to answer that would be great:

1. What are the implications of "no free will" in you daily life?

2. How much priority do you put on trying to improve your life? If everything in life is predetermined, what is the sense of doing anything? Why not do nothing?

[Loba]

5 hours ago, UpperMaster said:

@Loba This is both fascinating and motivating. I personally haven't had a spiritual experience, therefore I have no idea how it must have been for you. I appreciate you sharing.

I recently decided to be agnostic on the idea on free will, as I don't have spiritual experiences saying otherwise.

I do have some additional questions though, if you are willing to answer that would be great:

1. What are the implications of "no free will" in you daily life?

2. How much priority do you put on trying to improve your life? If everything in life is predetermined, what is the sense of doing anything? Why not do nothing?

1. The implications for me are that I know that whatever choice I make, that it was already preplanned, but that there is the illusion of free will so it still feels like there is free will, not much has changed from when I thought I made my own choices to learning that I don't.  I think, because the message was so positive for not only myself, but the rest of God's creations, that I was able to accept it without much collateral damage.  Sometimes the ego comes back in strongly, especially after a period of self reflection I can get into a bit of a funk, but I try to remember the lessons that I learned, that everything is going to be okay for everyone and this helps.

2. To be honest, I have a hard time motivating myself to make changes in the real world, like taking action and so forth, but as far as making psychological changes, I do this quite often and feel my life slowly, over time, becoming more clear.  Even though everything is predetermined, we can still live in the illusion of it not being the case, so you have free will to do things instead of doing nothing, although you can do nothing if you choose to, it's just that this was already decided, but the illusion is so good. 

The reason to do anything at all is so that you can be one of the people who have some awakening experiences - they are personalized just for you, for what you need and so whatever you learn will be tailored to your path.  If you do nothing at all and don't try to remove some of the dirt from your lens then it will never happen.  The lack of free will is outside of the game, toggling the game and moving the characters around, but in this game, you do get to make choices - it's just that they were already destined to be those choices, anyways.  It's hard to explain without stepping outside of the game for a few minutes, but when you do, you will get it.

[UpperMaster]

On 8/14/2022 at 5:05 AM, Jake Chambers said:

This is false. Free will is real and this has been revealed to me in a very profound and deep awakening. Sorry to sound so arrogant but that is what you get in spiritual debates like this.

Can you describe your awakening? Like how did you awaken (psychedelics, self inquiry), what did you see?. I'm very curious to how its is similar/different to others. I would appreciate it man!

[UpperMaster]

On 8/14/2022 at 10:47 PM, Loba said:

1. The implications for me are that I know that whatever choice I make, that it was already preplanned, but that there is the illusion of free will so it still feels like there is free will, not much has changed from when I thought I made my own choices to learning that I don't.  I think, because the message was so positive for not only myself, but the rest of God's creations, that I was able to accept it without much collateral damage.  Sometimes the ego comes back in strongly, especially after a period of self reflection I can get into a bit of a funk, but I try to remember the lessons that I learned, that everything is going to be okay for everyone and this helps.

2. To be honest, I have a hard time motivating myself to make changes in the real world, like taking action and so forth, but as far as making psychological changes, I do this quite often and feel my life slowly, over time, becoming more clear.  Even though everything is predetermined, we can still live in the illusion of it not being the case, so you have free will to do things instead of doing nothing, although you can do nothing if you choose to, it's just that this was already decided, but the illusion is so good. 

The reason to do anything at all is so that you can be one of the people who have some awakening experiences - they are personalized just for you, for what you need and so whatever you learn will be tailored to your path.  If you do nothing at all and don't try to remove some of the dirt from your lens then it will never happen.  The lack of free will is outside of the game, toggling the game and moving the characters around, but in this game, you do get to make choices - it's just that they were already destined to be those choices, anyways.  It's hard to explain without stepping outside of the game for a few minutes, but when you do, you will get it.

@Loba , thanks for the response. I will probably understand much more after having some awakenings. What is weird is that, people claim to have had awakenings of complete free will and complete determinism..its crazy the experiences people describe having. Thank you again