UnbornTao

Operating Systems - Your thoughts on Windows 10/11?

36 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

19 hours ago, MarkKol said:

You've seen those "Linux users installing a web browser" memes? running commands vs clicking an icon to open a program, there's a clear winner.

:D

Quote

wisemen say... Linux is free, if you don't value your time.

Yeah, pretty much.

It's basically a hobby.

Quote

the m1 macbook is great, I admit. but the m2 air, not as much

edit: I shouldn't hold strong opinions until its released but that's my prediction

Apparently it is a decent, and more expensive, improvement. Now with a notch!

I've been tempted to buy a $500 Windows laptop numerous times. In my view, it's best to see it as a long-term investment. Those computers don't hold up very well after two or three years of intensive use.

Edited by UnbornTao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Windows 10 is preferable for me. 11 has issues with some of the software I download there.


"I believe you are more afraid of condemning me to the stake than for me to receive your cruel and disproportionate punishment."

- Giordano Bruno, Campo de' Fiori, Rome, Italy. February 17th, 1600.

Cosmic pluralist, mathematician and poet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Eternal Unity said:

Windows 10 is preferable for me. 11 has issues with some of the software I download there.

That's weird. What software?

Is it the only thing stopping you from upgrading?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@UnbornTao Yes. The software is called 'MemoQ', it's a program for translating documents.


"I believe you are more afraid of condemning me to the stake than for me to receive your cruel and disproportionate punishment."

- Giordano Bruno, Campo de' Fiori, Rome, Italy. February 17th, 1600.

Cosmic pluralist, mathematician and poet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Compared to a similarly-priced Windows laptop, which one would hold up best after a few years?

High-end HP Spectre & Lenovo Yoga models.  Touchscreen + flexable = doubles up as a tablet.  So that's like £2k in added value, while being cheaper than a macbook.

 

8 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

That sounds nihilistic. What's wrong with macOS?

If you want, advantages to both can be found.

I guess it's fine.  Just restrictive.  I know there are many issues I have with it, but I don't recall.  I don't normally use MacOS.

 

8 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

M1 is one of the best investments you can make

It's efficient, but not exactly powerful.  In a few years we'll have RISC intel/AMC CPUs which put Apple back in its place.

 

8 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

will come later this year with the 22H2 update

I've been hearing about Microsoft's promises for years.  I'll believe it when I see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 7/15/2022 at 1:51 AM, thisintegrated said:

High-end HP Spectre & Lenovo Yoga models.  Touchscreen + flexable = doubles up as a tablet.  So that's like £2k in added value, while being cheaper than a macbook.

Those are innovative but these kinds of computers, including 2-in-1's, come with various pitfalls and compromises, usually.

Their fans get loud, they are thick, heavy and get really hot, battery life is comparatively negligible, and performance drops radically unless plugged to power, which is nonsense. Even if plugged in, they can't match M1 and when they do, battery lasts 3 hours. Their screens and webcams are worse, etc. 

Lenovo is going to release a new ARM-based ThinkPad that looks attractive, though. 

These are examples of doing two things in a mediocre way instead of one well-executed.

Microsoft can't figure out how to make 2-in-1 devices work in Windows for both use cases without bothering one or both groups. Apple avoids this problem by limiting macOS to non-touch input.

Quote

It's efficient, but not exactly powerful.  In a few years we'll have RISC intel/AMC CPUs which put Apple back in its place.

I'll believe it when I see it. :P

For now, Apple dominates in ARM mobile productivity and efficient computing. They have a head start. Intel misses Apple, not the other way around.

Intel is scared about its future survival and should change course radically, imo. They offer good products; however, the x86 architecture is inefficient and will likely become irrelevant. ARM and RISC-V are the future.

P.S: Not an Apple enthusiast. I do like some its products, hardware mostly. I was trying to counterbalance your take which I considered a bit biased against them. I agree with some of your points.

Edited by UnbornTao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Apparently it is a decent, and more expensive, improvement. Now with a notch!

My work bought me one of the new M1 Macbook Pros as my work laptop. I thought I'd have issues with compatibility since it's ARM but I haven't had a single issue. And it's super speedy, super quiet and super sleek. Plus, the screen is better than any screen on any other device I've ever owned in my life

But it's easy to be a fan when you aren't footing the bill of a Macbook :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 15/07/2022 at 4:04 PM, UnbornTao said:

Those are innovative but these kinds of computers, including 2-in-1's, come with various pitfalls and compromises, usually.

Their fans get loud, they are thick, heavy and get really hot, battery life is comparatively negligible, and performance drops radically unless plugged to power, which is nonsense. Even if plugged in, they can't match M1 and when they do, battery lasts 3 hours. Their screens and webcams are worse, etc. 

These are examples of doing two things in a mediocre way instead of one well-executed.

Microsoft can't figure out how to make 2-in-1 devices work in Windows for both use cases without bothering one or both groups. Apple avoids this problem by limiting macOS to non-touch input.

w-what?!

Microsoft doesn't even make those.  Apple doesn't even make those!!

I've used a lenovo yoga 2 in 1, and it's damn amazing.  Like 10-12 hours of battery life with moderate use.  Not mediocre in any way.  Once you try, you can't go back to regular laptops.  Those £4000 macbooks feel like a downgrade in comparison.

 

A Macbook may, in some ways, be a more polished laptop..

..but traditional laptops are the past.  If you're a Blue ISTJ or something you may want a traditional laptop, but I personally wouldn't wanna invest in a dying technology.

 

Quote

I'll believe it when I see it. :P

For now, Apple dominates in ARM mobile productivity and efficient computing. They have a head start. Intel misses Apple, not the other way around.

Intel is scared about its future survival and should change course radically, imo. They offer good products; however, the x86 architecture is inefficient and will likely become irrelevant. ARM and RISC-V are the future.

Actually, much of the reason for Apple's current advantage is the fact they've pre-booked basically all of TSMC's capacity for 5nm chips.  Intel was always king, then it was AMD for a few years, and now Apple splurged on chips to finally come out on top for the first time, in a limited way.  AMD and Intel see this, and one will strike when the time is right.  It's a cycle.  AMD fanboys didn't think Intel was dead once AMD finally started beating Intel.  Apple waited many years before finally revealing M1.  It's not like they suddenly decided to create something and it turned out amazing first time just because it's Apple.  M1 was the result of many years of work, and it was only impressive because it came out of nowhere.  Now we're gonna just be seeing iterative upgrades.  The shock factor is gone.  The M2 will still be using the identical 5nm tech.  For the M3 they'll probably be saying "our all new third generation 5nm technology"🤦🏻

Edited by thisintegrated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 7/19/2022 at 3:14 AM, thisintegrated said:

w-what?!

Microsoft doesn't even make those.

Sorry, poor wording. 

I meant:

Microsoft hasn't figured out an ideal way to implement Windows in 2-in-1s. Whenever they add a touch-focused feature, desktop users seem to complain, and viceversa.

No company has figured out yet a way to make their desktop OS touch-friendly without compromising usability in some way, as far as I know.

Quote

Apple doesn't even make those!!

Maybe you misinterpreted me.

The "innovative" part went to the PCs you mentioned, not to Macs.

Quote

I've used a lenovo yoga 2 in 1, and it's damn amazing.  Like 10-12 hours of battery life with moderate use.  Not mediocre in any way.  Once you try, you can't go back to regular laptops.  Those £4000 macbooks feel like a downgrade in comparison.

What about the trackpad, keyboard, screen and speakers? How much does it weight, and how thick is it? How hot and loud does it get? How does it perform compared to M1? What are the differences in battery life? What's the touch experience like?

I bet M1 Air wins, overall. Not on touch, clearly.

Many people would prefer an excellent traditional device instead of a decent 2-in-1, in my view.

Windows PCs are of course more versatile, open, cheaper and customizable, better for gaming, and can have discreet graphics cards (M1 can't).

Trying to be objective here without downplaying what the fruit company has accomplished so far.

Quote

A Macbook may, in some ways, be a more polished laptop..

..but traditional laptops are the past.  If you're a Blue ISTJ or something you may want a traditional laptop, but I personally wouldn't wanna invest in a dying technology.

Well, it's true and I feel the same, sometimes. A screen without touch, except TVs and specific gadgets, makes you feel like living in the Jurassic era. 

Plays Jurassic Park soundtrack.

Quote

Actually, much of the reason for Apple's current advantage is the fact they've pre-booked basically all of TSMC's capacity for 5nm chips.  Intel was always king, then it was AMD for a few years, and now Apple splurged on chips to finally come out on top for the first time, in a limited way.

Yes.

On mobile, Qualcomm is their main competitor, I think.

Apple has been at the top with mobile processors for a long time. 

Their dev kit for Apple Silicon used an iPad processor!

Quote

Apple waited many years before finally revealing M1.  It's not like they suddenly decided to create something and it turned out amazing first time just because it's Apple.

In a way, M1 was the result of years of expertise developing their own custom processors for mobile devices.

Quote

M1 was the result of many years of work, and it was only impressive because it came out of nowhere. Now we're gonna just be seeing iterative upgrades. The shock factor is gone. The M2 will still be using the identical 5nm tech.

On 7/14/2022 at 5:27 PM, UnbornTao said:

 

That doesn't seem to be the case. The M3 has been rumored to be built on 3nm technology and ARMv9.

Apple may, however, choose to use that new technology in their "pro" devices only.

I'll be patiently waiting for an Intel and AMD processor that achieves similar performance/efficiency as AS does. To achieve that, they likely will have to switch to ARM, eventually.

Edited by UnbornTao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Microsoft hasn't figured out a good way to implement Windows into 2-in-1s. Whenever they add a touch-focused feature, desktop users seem to complain, and viceversa.

No company has figured out yet a way to make their desktop OS touch-friendly without compromising usability in one way or the other, as far as I know.

That's true, but as you say.. "it's coming in the 22H2 update"..

 

But it's really already good enough.  You don't need any new optimizations to be able to use it like a kindle, or scroll images with your finger, or rearrange windows, play/pause media, etc. by touch.  And, if you wanted, you could probably download some app for gesture controls.

 

Quote

What about the trackpad, keyboard, and screen? How much does it weight? How hot and loud does it get? How does it perform compared to M1? What's the touch experience like?

I bet M1 Air wins in most of these aspects (not on touch, clearly). ;)

Macbook keyboard are awful for the price.  Apple cares about slimness/appearance above all else, so the keyboards are typically worse than your average £200 laptop chicklet keyboard, from what I've heard.  They used to be better, but the past few years the keyboards have been made shallower and worse to type on.

Screen not sure.  Probably one of the best in laptops.

Speakers yeah, they're the best in a laptop.

Macbooks aren't 2 in 1s, so their weight doesn't even matter much as it's on your desk/lap anyway.

The yoga I used was always silent, and performance was similar to M1, but not quite as good.

This yoga cost like £550, so really unless you need MacOS or more processing power, the macbook just looks like a bad deal.

I think in almost all cases the greater capabilities of a windows 2 in 1 win out.  Can do more with it, a third of the price, and far fewer incompatibility issues.

 

Quote

I assume many people prefer an excellent traditional more than a good enough 2-in-1.

Definitely not me.  The laptops with a 2nd screen above the keyboard are great and would've been my top choice originally, but 2 in 1s aren't even just innovative laptops anymore.  They're the inevitable evolution of the laptop.

 

Quote

Well, it's true and I feel the same, sometimes. A screen without touch, except TVs, makes you feel like living in the Jurassic era. 

Plays Jurassic park theme.

Yep.  The only reason Apple is avoiding making touchscreen laptops is because it would cut into their profits on iPads.  Literally no other reason.  They'd rather you not even realize 2 in 1 laptops are a thing.  That's why they want you in their walled Apple garden.  They want to decide what you're allowed to think exists, and what doesn't.  This alone makes me avoid their products.  It's an Orange/Red culture at Apple, though of course they'd want you to think they're Green.

Apple"Look!  No charger = less packaging!! We're so Green🥰🥰"

Everyone* now has to go buy a charger with its own several boxes of packaging *

Apple Loyalists/Simps"That's your fault for not already having this year's proprietary macbook charger"

 

Quote

For the first time?

Apple has been dominating on mobile processors in terms of performance/efficiency for a long time.

Their dev kit for Apple Silicon used an iPad processor!

In a way, M1 was the result of years of expertise in developing their own processors on the iPhone, iPad, etc.

Yes.  The mobile processors only recently caught up to snapdragons.  The efficiency was primarily due to aggressive software optimisations.

For the longest time, iPhones were like single/dual core, with <1GB or RAM, and like 720p screens, meanwhile android already had quadcores with 4GB+ of RAM and a minimum of 1080p screens.  The one and only reason iPhones weren't total garbage was because of the software optimisations.  Still slow AF when it came to processing heavy tasks.

 

Quote

That doesn't seem to be the case. The M3 has been rumored to be built on 3nm technology and ARMv9.

Apple may however choose to use that new technology in their "pro" devices only.

I'll be waiting for an Intel or AMD processor that accomplishes a similar relationship between performance and efficiency as AS does. It won't likely happen soon.

I think Apple also wanted 3nm for M2, but TSMC isn't ready for this yet.

Edited by thisintegrated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 7/19/2022 at 11:05 PM, thisintegrated said:

That's true, but as you say.. "it's coming in the 22H2 update"..

Didn't mention touch features.

Quote

But it's really already good enough.  You don't need any new optimizations to be able to use it like a kindle, or scroll images with your finger, or rearrange windows, play/pause media, etc. by touch. 

OK.

The last time I tried a 2-in-1 was +4 years ago, a HP Pavilion. It was a mediocre experience at best, although to be fair, the device was dirt cheap.

Quote

Macbook keyboard are awful for the price.  Apple cares about slimness/appearance above all else, so the keyboards are typically worse than your average £200 laptop chicklet keyboard, from what I've heard.  They used to be better, but the past few years the keyboards have been made shallower and worse to type on.

You're confusing the current ones with the reportedly awful butterfly keyboard from 3-4 years ago. Now they use the Magic Keyboard again, the original better technology you're referring to.

Quote

Macbooks aren't 2 in 1s, so their weight doesn't even matter much as it's on your desk/lap anyway.

Portability. Traveling, etc. It's a laptop, after all. If given the choice, I'd want a portable as thin and light as possible without compromising functionality nor durability.

Quote

This yoga cost like £550, so really unless you need MacOS or more processing power, the macbook just looks like a bad deal.

I disagree. With Mac, you get a better all-around package. They last better and longer. Their resell value is high.

A lot of people are still interested in and willing to buy older Macs for 1/3 of the original cost.

PCs get devalued almost instantly. After a few years, general interest for them will be low and near zero in some cases. Not with Macs.

So, depending on your needs, Macbook is a better deal in the long term.

Quote

I think in almost all cases the greater capabilities of a windows 2 in 1 win out. Can do more with it, a third of the price, and far fewer incompatibility issues.

What do you mean by compatibility issues?

Quote

 

 

Yeah, they would be better with touch. At least give us the option! 

Quote

Yep. The only reason Apple is avoiding making touchscreen laptops is because it would cut into their profits on iPads.  Literally no other reason. 

Let's see what they do.

Porting MacOS to iPad is a possibility. The Pro's are extremely powerful but IOS is still quite immature, lacking basic desktop functionality.

Quote

They want to decide what you're allowed to think exists, and what doesn't.

Unnecessary hyperbole.

They aren't a dictatorship.

xD

Quote

This alone makes me avoid their products. It's an Orange/Red culture at Apple, though of course they'd want you to think they're Green.

From my perspective, it is quite green, to be honest.

If they, along with Google, aren't one of the few green tech companies, then which ones are?

Besides, it was founded by a hippie.

Of course they're solid orange, too.

Quote

Yes. The mobile processors only recently caught up to snapdragons.

Haven't Apple's mobile processors been top-class for years now?

Quote

The efficiency was primarily due to aggressive software optimisations.

So what? They play their cards.

I'm sure the processor has something to do with it, too. :D

Quote

For the longest time, iPhones were like single/dual core, with <1GB or RAM, and like 720p screens, meanwhile android already had quadcores with 4GB+ of RAM and a minimum of 1080p screens.  The one and only reason iPhones weren't total garbage was because of the software optimisations. Still slow AF when it came to processing heavy tasks.

And yet they were still massively popular and loved by many.

Android phones have to lure customers with additional features and brute specs while Apple doesn't need to. They focus on refining the basics like privacy, optimization, consistency, simplicity. And brand reputation. They can afford that luxury.

A benefit can be seen as a drawback from another viewpoint, and viceversa:

  1. Apple's platforms are locked down. That may in some way contribute to security, etc.
  2. Windows backwards compatibility is excellent. And that legacy code is precisely one factor that prevents Windows from receiving substantial improvements.

 

Quote

Apple: "Look! No charger = less packaging!! We're so Green🥰🥰"

Everyone: * now has to go buy a charger with its own several boxes of packaging *

Apple Loyalists/Simps: "That's your fault for not already having this year's proprietary macbook charger"

Apple: "No phone, just a beautiful box.

Only $99."

On 7/14/2022 at 5:27 PM, UnbornTao said:

 

Edited by UnbornTao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Didn't mention touch features.

 

Last time I tried a 2 in 1 was + 4 years ago. It wasn't the best experience although to be fair, the device was dirt cheap.

Imagine what a 2in1 with a macbook budget be like😳😳

 

Quote

You're mistaking the current keyboards with the reportedly awful butterfly ones from 3-4 years ago. Now they're good again.

*Less awful

 

Quote

Portability.

Why would you want that?  To you can carry it to show pics to people like on a tablet?  lol, that would be awkward holding it in one hand.

 

Quote

I disagree. With the Mac you get much more. Besides, they last better and longer. Mac resell value is good. It is guaranteed that in 4 years people will still be buying them for a considerable percentage of the original cost. Cheap PCs get almost instantly devalued. 

I cba to sell my stuff anyway.  I'd rather keep it and not feel pressured to sell because of its price.

 

Quote

So, Macbook sounds like a better deal for the long term, depending on your needs.

It's a depreciating asset.  If you buy a cheaper laptop, save £1k, and invest that £1k in crypto, you'd end up with a laptop more capable than that macbook, and have £10k extra in cash.

 

Quote

Well, they aren't really about offering choice. >:(

"Choice is the devil" —Apple

 

Quote

Let's see what they do. Adding MacOS to iPads is another possible avenue. The Pro's are extremely powerful, but what's the use if iPadOS is a toy?

Yep.  Apple's executives have no idea what they're doing.

 

Quote

This is unnecessarily hyperbolic.

^_^

 

Quote

I mean, they aren't a dictatorship or something like that. xD

IOS = no customization/choice/individuality.

Apple tells you what you want, tells you that you're ok with paying £1k for a phone, and tells you exactly how you want every part of the OS to look and feel.  "Apple knows best".

 

Quote

From my perspective, it seems quite green, to be honest. Besides, it was founded by a hippie. 

Billionaire hippies?  Yeah no, Green is just their branding.  Apple products are a status symbol for Oranges.  That's why people buy them.  Oranges want to be seen as successful Oranges.

 

Quote

And yet they were still massively popular and loved by many.

Old people love the idea of "simple".  And old people don't care about price as much and alone are enough to propel a brand forward.

Edited by thisintegrated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

16 hours ago, kray said:

Just get a mac dude

Thanks, I will.

This thread is meant for discussion, too.

Edited by UnbornTao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Windows 11 2022 Update was released yesterday with several welcomed improvements.

Tabbed Explorer plus other features in October, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now