Flirting struggles

[Karmadhi]

So i have started talking to girls and so far i have went out with 3 of them on a 1-1 setting. However i have noticed that i struggle with sexualization and flirting when the meeting is not clearly a date. 1 of the girls i met was clearly into me and with her flirting was effortless. It was very easy and it came natural to me to flirt then with the others. The girls looks have nothing to do with this. It is just that if their attitude towards me is more platonic or neutral, if i am unsure that they even see me romantically i struggle to flirt and sexualize.

I am talking here about flirting, not about being fun and playful. I can act fun and playful with all girls. Making them laugh, being goofy, not overly logical etc is no issue.  However flirting and sexualization is something that i can only do comfrotably if i know the girl is into me somewhat. Also if the girl acts in a very neutral way, i struggle to change the frame into a flirty/sexual frame. Imagine trying to flirt with a church girl, that is the way it feels to me. I think it is totally in my head since i can flirt much more easily with girls that i know are somewhat into me. 

Any advice/help?

Edited October 19, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Federico del pueblo]

Maybe there is some fear of rejection going on, so with girls who don't give you certain signals (act neutral) you don't want to risk saying anything flirtatious?

Anyway you have to start flirting with them too, and it only takes one person (you) to make the interaction man to woman. Like  this you force her to make a decision, she will either start to like you or dislike you. There's no way around this. You must face the possibility of getting rejected for your sexual/romantic interest.

Think of a bunch of low-key flirtatious things to say and use them, then let these things become more heavily flirtatious (escalation), but stay calibrated, so if it gets too much for her tone it back a little bit again and throw something in later on.

"ok...you seem kinda interesting (eye contact)...blablabla..."

"haha...you got some cute facial expressions...anyway... blablabla..."

"That's adorable what you just said/did.... blablabla..."

"That was a dangerous look you just gave me..."

"What? Really?! You have to stop being so cute...I don't wanna fall in love right now ;)"

Edited October 19, 2021 by Federico del pueblo

[Karmadhi]

@Federico del pueblo Thank you. 

From my personal experience there are 3 types of girls i have encountered.

Type 1- Are into you and its not hard at all to get them and to flirt with them.

Type 2- Neutral. If you act well you can get them, otherwise you are friendzoned (they will still like to hang out with you but will not be attracted sexually). 

Type 3- Will not be into you and there is not much you can do about it. Just move on as fast as possible.

I can get results with type 1 but i struggle with type 2 a lot. I can identify type 1 without much difficulty but it is hard to tell type  2 from 3.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Chew211]

Do what you do with type 1, and the type 3s will show themselves the door.

We could all be better with those type 2s, eh?

[Leo Gura]

On 10/19/2021 at 0:46 PM, Karmadhi said:

However flirting and sexualization is something that i can only do comfrotably if i know the girl is into me somewhat. Also if the girl acts in a very neutral way, i struggle to change the frame into a flirty/sexual frame. Imagine trying to flirt with a church girl, that is the way it feels to me. I think it is totally in my head since i can flirt much more easily with girls that i know are somewhat into me. 

Any advice/help?

Clarity of your intent is key.

There are two kinds of interactions with women:

1) Friendly and social

2) With sexual intent, man to woman

You need to be clear in your own mind what your intent is. That intent shapes the whole interaction.

If all the girls you talk to start out as #1, and you do hours of #1, then converting that into #2 will be difficult if not impossible because now she sees you as her gay friend, and you see yourself that way too.

You need to become better at simply communicating when you are attracted to a woman. If you are genuinely attracted, tell her early on. It should not take you hours to know you are attracted to her. You should know within 5 seconds.

Of course the more you communicate as #2, the more rejections you will get because you are forcing her to quickly decide whether she's attracted to you. And most girls will simply not be attracted to you no matter what you do. So the key here is just take the rejection as a good thing. It means you clearly hit on her.

The easiest way to turn a friendly conversation with a girl into one with sexual intent is to drop small hints that you find her attractive. For example, "Hey cutie"

[Karmadhi]

@Chew211 The whole vibe is different, i cannot explain it. I will try though!

59 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you are genuinely attracted, tell her early on

@Leo Gura Yes you are right ,The only way i can do it with girls i am unsure of is to talk slowly, smile, flirty eye contact and witty/playful remarks. This is my flirt game at the moment, still beginner. I will try to improve it.  Thank you for the advice.

 

[Karmadhi]

It is interesting that out of all the things i have managed to do in my life, this is arguably the hardest for me. Adopting a daily meditation habit, going from very skinny to relatively muscular, graduating from a top 50 worldwide university, living abroad in another country very different from mine, going halfway through the achiever-pluralist transition, learning 2 foreign languages and greatly improving my social skills/humour/likability/confidence.

NONE of these things were as hard as learning how to get better with girls.  

PS: this is more of a self-journal thing i was thinking about yesterday, i am not writting this to brag or anything. I am still a 23 year old jobless kid doing masters, not some successful englightned guru  

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

 

@Leo Gura Yes you are right ,The only way i can do it with girls i am unsure of is to talk slowly, smile, flirty eye contact and witty/playful remarks. This is my flirt game at the moment, still beginner. I will try to improve it.  Thank you for the advice.

You can just explicitly hit on girls as long as you're in a location where it is socially acceptable. For example, you can just say, "Omg, you are sexy as fuck, girl." But you have to say it in a non-needy and matter-of-fact way, and you cannot just leave it there to hang, you must splice it into the middle of a conversation and quickly move on with the rest of the conversation. You must say it as an aside.

Like you could be talking to her about her dogs, and in the middle of that you put your hand on her shoulder and say, "Omg, you are sexy as fuck, girl", and continue talking about her dogs as though you didn't even just hit on her. This requires some tact and skill to pull off, but it works really well once you master it. This skill lets you turn social interactions into romantic ones while still maintaining an air of "just being social".

Really, the most effective way to get girls is using the "just being social" method, but sprinkling in intent and flirtation. This way you slip past the defenses and you can even do it in front of her friends without triggering their defenses. You can even do this in front of her mom and it will work. The "just being social" frame buys you A LOT of leeway and good will. The trick here is to not fall into the friendzone. So you have to maintain sexual intent without being explicit about it.

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura Thank you.

[Gili Trawangan]

1. Learn to sexualize your eye contact. Keep awkward silences while looking at her with sexual intent, imagine what you would do to her. If she asks why you're looking at her like that, calibrate to her response. She may respond with flirtation, in which case you can dial it up, or take the pressure off and dial it down; if she's honestly confused, just jokingly say that you were thinking naughty thoughts, brush it off and change the subject. Try again later;

2. You have to learn how to lead a conversation, gradually bring the conversation to sexual/relationships topics, ask her what kind of men turn her on, stuff like that. Calibrate, calibrate, calibrate, this is going to take practice;

3. If you're very analytical, there are books out there with actual phrases you can use. Tom Torero has a book called (I think) "How to Flirt", I read it once a long time ago and remember that there were some golden nuggets there.