Stage green or blue? Example on radical veganism

[Tim R]

I'm confused as to whether this guy is actually stage green or stage blue.. can you be a stage blue vegan? Or is this just a really toxic form of stage green?  

[Scholar]

43 minutes ago, Tim R said:

I'm confused as to whether this guy is actually stage green or stage blue.. can you be a stage blue vegan? Or is this just a really toxic form of stage green?  

As you expand your identity, what will happen is that you might be thrown down a few stages in terms of your survival. Think about this, your stage is linked to your state of survival. If you do not identify with animals, our society is actually pretty progressive. People are safe for the most part, crime is at the minimum and so forth.

Now, if you expand your identity to include animals, the picture changes. Suddenly you go from one of the most progressive societies that ever existed, to a society that is causing more death and suffering than any society has ever before in the history of the world. You go from "everyone is equal", to "those who aren't humans can be tortured, murdered and raped for pleasure". You suddenly find yourself in a society what to you would seem like Nazi Germany during the holocaust of the jews, and even worse because each individual within that society seems to directly contribute to this, rather than being enslaved to an authoritarian system.

In that state, it is very easy to fall back to more primitive survival patterns. And consider that this person might have an atypical mind, he might have some sort of autism, or whatever else.

 

Ask yourself this, if you lived in a society in which people raped infants for fun, would you lose your faith in humanity? See, the kind of person who would get radicalized in that kind of society would be more sensitive than everyone else, they would actually be higher developed, even if they thought it was justified to commit terrorism. Put any person that lives today into the time of slavery, and they would become radical extremists within a few hours.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Scholar

[Scholar]

I mean, people rioted for months in the US because of a little discrimination, think about what people at that stage would do if they viewed animals as actual individuals. Do you think these people would care whether you have your food sensitivities? No, they would take you to the street and lynch you.

[Rilles]

1 hour ago, Tim R said:

I'm confused as to whether this guy is actually stage green or stage blue.. can you be a stage blue vegan? Or is this just a really toxic form of stage green?  

This is a Stage Green with a pinch of sociopathy.

But hes right in alot of ways, we dont give a shit about animals and were extremely hypocritical and biased. That doesnt mean you have to be an asshole though. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Rilles

[Scholar]

3 minutes ago, Rilles said:

This is a Stage Green with a pinge of sociopathy.

But hes right in alot of ways, we dont give a shit about animals and were extremely hypocritical and biased. That doesnt mean you have to be an asshole though. 

 I don't really see anything he is saying as particularly assholish. You should contemplate how much compassion you would have for someone who puts your family in a gaschamber to then eat strips of the flesh. See, the more you care about your family, the more difficult it will be for you to not form hatred for these people. Do you think it would be fair to demand or expect from you to be compassionate towards these people?

And don't forget, you demand them to be compassionate to people who literally pay for the rape, murder and death of others, while none of them will show any compassion towards the vegan who simply is angry at them for doing so.

 

The level of cognitive dissonance that requires is astonishing.

[Tim R]

39 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I don't really see anything he is saying as particularly assholish.

Seriously?

[Scholar]

4 hours ago, Tim R said:

Seriously?

Would like to provide me with examples that you would consider assholish given the deeper understanding I have offered to you?

[mandyjw]

Rather than using the Spiral Dynamics lens for this, look at it in terms of duality and projection. I make myself more right, by making you more wrong. I don't see that it's wrong of me, to make you wrong. I hate myself as a human, I think I'm flawed and so to pay penance for this and avoid what is actually my own self rejection, I hate other humans and love animals far more than any OTHER humans because they are the closest thing to me that is non-human. 

So, we could use spiral dynamics like that too. These color levels are below what developed people are, the very development of this model and the low stages as theoretical possibilities also creates the possibility of the high stages, which I strive to be and identify as. 

Or I could be doing this right now, saying spiral dynamics is a flawed model, so I can sell you the model of "no model" saying it's not really a model, but asking you to believe in it and identify with it.

Well THAT spiraled around. Those are the dynamics of thoughts. BOOM. So dynamic, sometimes they even explode. ?

[SgtPepper]

That's just what some vegans are like. It's not extreme to think that way in their community. 

6 hours ago, Rilles said:

we dont give a shit about animals

This is not holistically true.

Humans take care of nature, care for animals, and some will even compromise their health for animals

We care more about animals than animals would ever care about themselves or other animals.

In other words, we are the most caring animals in my view.

Edited September 17, 2021 by SgtPepper

[Rilles]

41 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Humans take care of nature, care for animals, and some will even compromise their health for animals

Lmao. We kill and torture more animals everyday than any genocide in history has ever done.

Care for nature? We have literal filled the oceans with plastic and destroyed entire ecosystems, what world are you living in...?