Enquiry on Nothing & Something in the state of sleep or in the state like coma.

[Dark_White]

So the question is, In the state of sleeping or in the state of coma, it seems like the pure nothingness alone exists. Like seriously no time, no objects, no external world. But a pure nothingness. So how come this nothing = something. It seems like nothing is inherited in every objects/time/external world but that something is missing isn't it?

1. Let's assume you're sleeping at 9PM and you wake UP at 5AM, in these between period you as a nothing you existed right? In between these stage as pure nothing from 9 to 5. So in this case if something = nothing. There was no something in the 9 to 5, i as the awareness existed as pure nothing. So is this prove nothing differs from something?

Edited February 21, 2021 by Dark_White
Question wasn't clearly delivered, language barrier in duality itself?

[Tim R]

Nothing is no-thing. So to say that the world is nothing means that the world is no-thing, i.e. no particular some-thing which you could pin down. 

The real world always escapes concepts because it itself is not a concept (and "it" is also just a concept of course). Concepts try to pin the world down as some-thing, you see? Whereas in reality everything is no-thing. It's like Indra's Net. 

Look at a river. It's always changing, so you can't pin it down. You can't say about a river that it is some particular way. The moment you say that it is some particular way, it has already escaped. Try catching a river in a bucket. The moment you do so, it stops being a river. 

That's what it means to say that the world is nothing.

What is the world underneath concepts? Underneath "something"? Nothing!

[Dark_White]

@Tim R sorry, my question was not clearly phrased. So I'm curious that in the state of deep sleep nothing exist as pure nothing so howcome the nothing = something.  It seems like nothing is always with something but nothing alone stands without anyother thing. So howcome something = nothing?

 

In otherwords it seems like nothing needs nothing to be itself. But something has nothing in it. So how nothing = something?

Edited February 21, 2021 by Dark_White

[Tim R]

1 hour ago, Dark_White said:

in the state of deep sleep nothing exist as pure nothing so how come the nothing = something.

What makes you think that nothing = something during sleep?

[James123]

Sleeping has no differences than being awake. So “you” decide, is there any “you” or “something “ ? 

[Dark_White]

@Tim R i mean it is what non-duality mean right everything should be collapsed into one. So how it could differ? 

Also leo also said many time nothing and something are both identical. So how the separation seem to happen?

Edited February 21, 2021 by Dark_White
Grammatical error

[Dark_White]

@James123 yes what I'm typing is something right although it is in nothing but this is something which appears in nothing right?

While I'm awake even tho there's no me but my thoughts are appearing in the pure nothingness right?

So how can there be a duality?

[TheSelf]

@Dark_White imagine you pick up an object in your dream looking at it, in the dream it'll appear rigid and solid object just like "real world" objects wich from your point of view obviously is something and not nothing right? 

But from the mind's point of view who dream that plus everything else, it's actually nothing (no a thing)! It's made up of pure knowingness, awareness. It was never that wich appeared to be. That's how everything = nothing.

Nothing is not equal to none existence, it exist but its no a "thing".

Edited February 21, 2021 by m0hsen

[Dark_White]

@m0hsen okay so what remains while I'm in deep sleep?

[James123]

17 minutes ago, Dark_White said:

@James123 yes what I'm typing is something right although it is in nothing but this is something which appears in nothing right?

These are just thoughts.

Nothing happens, has happened nor appears. 

17 minutes ago, Dark_White said:

While I'm awake even tho there's no me but my thoughts are appearing in the pure nothingness right?

 

“I am awake” is a thought itself.

17 minutes ago, Dark_White said:

So how can there be a duality?

There is no duality. Now is before birth, as sleep. Just identification, naming  and labeling the so called thoughts makes “you”, “duality “ or “world”. Including calling the thoughts as “thoughts”.

Edited February 21, 2021 by James123

[Dark_White]

@James123 I don't know if the lost in translation happened here as it common in this topic, but i don't got that properly.

2 minutes ago, James123 said:

These are just thoughts.

Nothing happens, has happened nor appears. 

“I am awake” is a thought itself.

Yes but what is the substance for this thought -> pure nothingness, right? Pure awareness is nothingness.

Thought cannot comeout of something right? Nothigness is needed to show something.

7 minutes ago, James123 said:

There is no duality. Now is before birth, as sleep. Just identification, naming  and labeling the so called thoughts makes it. Including calling the thoughts as “thoughts”.

If there was no duality something should be appeared in my deep-sleep or in coma cause nothing = something, so in this case non-duality is not happened. Cause nothingness provide a hierarchically top role in sort of way. Like nothingness produce something if nothingness produce something these two are dualities.

[TheSelf]

@Dark_White You remain! As always there's only you! Are you different from objects and others in your dreams? From dreamer's POV yes, but from mind's POV obviously No.

See, from awareness POV either it's dreaming blank or stuff, its all one continues dream.

Awareness can dream and experience anything it wants.

Edited February 21, 2021 by m0hsen

[James123]

7 minutes ago, Dark_White said:

Yes but what is the substance for this thought -> pure nothingness, right?

 

8 minutes ago, Dark_White said:

Thought cannot comeout of something right? Nothigness is needed to show something

This is not a thought, it is nothing. Everything is nothing, therefore there is no such a thing as something. Just nothingness. 

 

9 minutes ago, Dark_White said:

there was no duality something should be appeared in my deep-sleep or in coma cause nothing = something, so in this case non-duality is not happened. Cause nothingness provide a hierarchically top role in sort of way. Like nothingness produce something if nothingness produce something these two are dualities.

If you dont think during the day, there wont be any “during the day”, “you”, “something “, “experience “, nor “produce”.  Nothingness can not be experienced, can just “be”, as sleeping. Forget everything that “you” have learned (including yourself), whatever left is what YOU really are. 

[Dark_White]

@m0hsen yea that's really a nice explanation i got that. Yeah it make total sense now. Thank you!

[Dark_White]

5 minutes ago, James123 said:

This is not a thought, it is nothing. Everything is nothing, therefore there is no such a thing as something. Just nothingness. 

Woah, not yet directly aware of it yet!? I'm a newbie so go easy on me. Interesting how could be it nothing??

[Valwyndir]

Pay attention to what happened in actuality. 

You didn't directly experience unconscious, dreamless sleep. Unconscious sleep is a story.

First you were awake. During this time you were experiencing content in reality that had a perceived continuity. 

Then you experienced a "fading in" to a less wakeful state. 

Then you experienced "waking up" in the morning.

This experience appeared to be discontinuous from the previous experience of being awake.

To grapple with this perceived discontinuity, your mind tells itself that it must have been unconscious or sleeping during the gap in time. 

This is simply a story your mind tells itself. It didn't happen in actuality. "Time" is part of the story.  

What happened was a continuous stream of consciousness with perceived discontinuity. 

Unconsciousness is just a story your mind tells itself to make sense of the physical world. 

Notice how there is not one black frame in the first clip, just as there is no unconsciousness in actuality.

There is simply less wakeful experience and a point of discontinuity. 

This discontinuity has no cause. The cause is simply a story your mind tells itself.

You are the sequence in the video editor that never has an empty, black frame. 

All empty, black frames are stories that take place within full frames of the sequence. 

 

[James123]

1 hour ago, Dark_White said:

Woah, not yet directly aware of it yet!? I'm a newbie so go easy on me. 

? Direct experience is must. 

1 hour ago, Dark_White said:

Interesting how could be it nothing??

That’s what You are. So called Deep sleep, or before birth, just being. And it is now. The moment. Birth has never happened. 

[allislove]

@Dark_White

'nothing = something' is just a pointer. 

To put it differently: form is formless, formless is form. 

The main point: not two, only one 'thing' is here. Even to say 'one', 'thing', 'is', 'here' is way too much. Don't try to get it conceptually. The very 'thing' that tries to understand it is the obstacle for understanding. Just relax, deep breath, let the attention sink into whatever aware of now. 

[Dark_White]

@Valwyndir

8 hours ago, Valwyndir said:

Pay attention to what happened in actuality. 

You didn't directly experience unconscious, dreamless sleep. Unconscious sleep is a story.

First you were awake. During this time you were experiencing content in reality that had a perceived continuity. 

Then you experienced a "fading in" to a less wakeful state. 

Then you experienced "waking up" in the morning.

This experience appeared to be discontinuous from the previous experience of being awake.

To grapple with this perceived discontinuity, your mind tells itself that it must have been unconscious or sleeping during the gap in time. 

This is simply a story your mind tells itself. It didn't happen in actuality. "Time" is part of the story.  

What happened was a continuous stream of consciousness with perceived discontinuity. 

Unconsciousness is just a story your mind tells itself to make sense of the physical world. 

Notice how there is not one black frame in the first clip, just as there is no unconsciousness in actuality.

There is simply less wakeful experience and a point of discontinuity. 

This discontinuity has no cause. The cause is simply a story your mind tells itself.

You are the sequence in the video editor that never has an empty, black frame. 

All empty, black frames are stories that take place within full frames of the sequence. 

 

Hmm, that was really so true. I never experienced unconsciousness and never will experience cause if you're unconscious how can you experience it, that's the point. No way to prove or disprove!!!  

But I like to think or tell a story or to believe I was there present as pure nothingness when I'm sleeping or in that stage. This kinda give continuity more possible from other person's pov. Yeah making it complicated. Yeah there are no separation from oneself and other from consciousness but from individual mind it do. Wait there's no individual mind. Wait there are no people also no me and also wait, what the hell. I don't know.

Yeah maybe there was never unconscious state. How sneaky maybe i never slept actually, what's the point if i never slept if I'm trying to sleep everyday. Non-duality is so strange!!

[Dark_White]

@allislove ??