Tildae00

Is Socialism The Result of The Next Economic Crash?

7 posts in this topic

Hi everyone how are you? Economics opinion here hoping to squeeze it into the realm of politics. 

So as a hobby I've been looking into socialism and also doing a bit of study of economics. And my present conclusion is that if a socialist system was to form, it would not be because of the love of socialism, but the hatred of capitalism. I just finished watching a video by ColdFusion's video How Is Money Created? - Everything You Need to Know (

) And it exposes the immense power banks have over people. And that the debt we're all accumulating despite many living below the poverty line and unemployment and homelessness increasing. And I'm thinking people are just going to get sick of living like this in this unfair system. Here is the part of the video that stuck out to me. At 21 mins in. "So, these central banks are creating money out of nothing and they can't go bankrupt but yet they are buying real assets. Even a toddler can see that something is wrong here. It turns out that creating money out of nothing and buying things does have some consequences. These sorts of central bank interventions remove stock markets from reality. Throughout the 20th century, the stock market actually used to reflect the economy. But recently, that's gone completely out of whack. The US stock market has become almost twice as big as the entire nation's GDP which literally makes no sense. Central bank intervention why in April 2020, 30 million people became unemployed in the United States but the stock market had its best month since 1987. The central bank printed trillions and give it to banks and hedge funds with almost zero percent interest rates. This money made it straight into the stock market while the real economy barely got any help."


And of all the contenders for a replacement system, socialism seems to be the next one in line. What do you think of the probability of socialism in the near future? And what are your thoughts on this predicted financial crash we keep hearing about discussed in economics is going to pan out? 

 

My thoughts? Honestly, I'm unsure if there even will be that much of a big crash considering the problem is mutual to countries around the globe. As for the socialist element. I mean it is a long shot, but tensions are rising.  Though those tensions particularly in the US don't seem too much to focus on bankers as the problem, despite the under the surface may be contributing to the polarity in ways not yet evaluated.  

Edited by Tildae00

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Hmn, I am not sure. I believe the response towards it might not be socialism, but a more social form of capitalism with egalitarianism, I don't know if the people of the west can carry the responsibility and know-how a continental socialism would require without proper development.

But who knows, maybe my definition of socialism is off.

Edited by neutralempty

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@Tildae00 I agree with @neutralempty  on this one. The dichotomy between socialism and capitalism is very much a Spiral Dynamics Tier 1 type of thinking. Tier 2 is a Both/And approach, finding a synthesis of two seemingly disparate systems to form a newer, better metasystem. I highly recommend the books, "The Listening Society," and, "Nordic Ideology," by Hanzi Freinacht. The first book is basically introducing his version of Spiral Dynamics as well as the Metamodern philosophy that epitomizes the Stage Yellow ethos, and underpins the new politics. The second book actually goes in-depth on what that politics is. 

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@Elevated I see that sounds interesting. Could you tell me a bit more about the books to satiate my curiosity? What makes this concept of new politics a form of Yellow Stage ethos? My reading list is quite big thanks. 

Edited by Tildae00

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@Tildae00 So basically, Hanzi defines each stage not by the colours of Spiral Dynamics, but instead by the primary philosophy that was created to encapsulate the ethos of each stage. So for example, Red is Faustianism, Blue is Postfaustianism, Orange is Modernism, and Green is Postmodernism. The "Post-" philosophies are defined by their reaction to the previous stage. Obviously each stage is a reaction to the stage before it, but the primary reaction is defined by the "Post-" prefix. 

Now, when we get to the Stage Yellow ethos, which is the Both/And Synthesis approach, we come to Metamodernism. It is not merely a reaction to the previous stage, but is instead an attempt to synthesize the two previous stages. It is defined by the oscillation between Modernism and Postmodernism. It is also defined by a transcendence of the Left/Right political dichotomy. It is an attempt to synthesize Both Left and Right. This is not a Centrist position because Centrism is still defined by the Left and Right. This is a brand new metasystem that cannot be clearly defined by Left or Right.

So, branching off from that, we must now consider a politics in which the viewpoints of either side are consolidated and coordinated into policies that would attempt to satisfy the most and alienate the least of either side. An extraordinarily difficult task to rise to, which is why such a system can only emerge at Stage Yellow. 

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@Tildae00

His analysis of the financial system is pretty spot on. He didn’t mentioned how  interest bearing debt leads to an endless economic growth imperative. That’s a crucial piece of all this to leave out. But yes, banks make money out of nothing and it leads to wealth inequality. 

Socialism, in the marxist definition of the state seizing the means of production for an eventual communist revolution, is unlikely to happen. 

However, if we look at socialism as a general trend away from private property and more towards public, then yes socialism is coming. 

That is what a green economy looks like. A lot more sharing, and a lot less consumption / commodification.

Potential solutions include things like making money a public creation instead of private, local currencies, demurrage currency, UBI, max wealth tax etc.


Loving a new world into being.

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Anything formed out of hatred will not last long-term. 

But, I agree with @aurum, we will slowly see the shift towards green in our lifetime globally, but I doubt we will see full blown socialism for centuries, if ever. 

They'll likely be revolutions across the world, but whether they materialize into a blossoming socialist country is very different. 

As @Leo Gura said in another thread, there needs to be a successful working example of Socialism to build from & that burden is on the country testing out the model, and people do not like uncertainty, especially as they get older....and guess what's happening globally in western countries- an Aging population- I wouldn't hold your breath for socialism. 

For example, in the UK our Labour party (left leaning) had a VERY left wing leader at last years election, and they suffered their worst defeat in I can't even remember how many years. 

Social Media & forums like this are an echo chamber, very few people actually support these ideas with their votes. 

As always, watch what people do, not what they say. Everyone's a socialist at the Charity event, but are they a socialist when they get their Tax bill, or are they voting for the conservative politician? 

So, I wouldn't hold your breath for a democratic coming of Socialism.  


'One is always in the absolute state, knowingly or unknowingly for that is all there is.' Francis Lucille. 

'Peace and Happiness are inherent in Consciousness.' Rupert Spira 

“Your own Self-Realization is the greatest service you can render the world.” Ramana Maharshi

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