Pernani

Meditation vs kriya yoga

27 posts in this topic

19 hours ago, Consilience said:

Yeah if your goal isn't enlightenment, then self inquiry is pretty useless. 

With Kriya, I felt like all of the various focusing techniques were just too complicated and unnecessary. What are we training with meditation? Fundamentally, we're training mindfulness which could also be called awareness. What is mindfulness? I like Shinzen Young's definition - Concentration power, Sensory Clarity, and Equanimity. These three skills are the skills that yield the results of meditation. These three skills are what purify the mind, heal the emotional body, build physical pliancy, and essentially raise one's level of consciousness in the long run. I'd also throw in attentional stability as an important subcomponent of the concentration power piece which is where The Mind Illuminated comes in which Shinzen doesn't really address in his system. 

Kriya felt like it was overcomplicating the whole process while also missing what the primary aim of meditation practice is all about. Mainly, training those three skills to apply in every day life. Even if I were to use Kriya meditation techniques, at the end of the day I'd still be training concentration, sensory clarity, and equanimity. Furthermore, I want a meditation technique I can use all day every day. Kriya is really not conducive for life practice, but something like anapanasati (mindful breathing) from TMI or even Shinzen Young's See Hear Feel technique I can easily do all day long.  

But Kriya definitely has its fans. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the aim of Kriya or what types of benefits are available. I'd be curious to hear other's take. I believe some of the breathing techniques could be helpful for purifying emotions, but as far as building mindfulness.. Eh? 

Thank you so much for your input. I feel like some teachers can definitely over-complicate Kriya, while some others recommend a more simpler basic set of practices (like Santata Gamana with his first book). Didn't you experience any benefits to doing yoga that you didn't find in your meditation practice?

@The0Self @PenguinPablo Thank you for the recommendation. I'm definitely checking out TMI first, then I'll see about the second book.

11 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

It's all about the angle from which you pee while standing. If you can direct your penis up to 91.3° you will achieve happiness. 90° will make you miserable, trust me. A little bit to the left is optional but I prefer the middle way.

Buddy, happiness is not a science. It is the letting go of science. You can manipulate a lot of things in this life, but you can't force happiness. There are no methods for being happy. A method is a condition, you need fear to keep it alive, and once broken it will make you miserable. Methods/techniques feed on fear. Conditions are just limits you impose upon yourself out of fear. And it's all coming from the belief that you are not enough.

Insights, health, energy, focus, etc... are all nice things to have, but the question is; will any or all of them actually make you happy? Think about it.

Don't you think that one can only reach to that conclusion in their direct experience after lots n lots of practice? Otherwise I'd just end up wasting my time like I've already been for the majority of my life.

9 hours ago, Tarzan said:

@Pernani

I would lump Kriya yoga as a practice focusing on energy, one-pointedness concentration, and rapture (peak states). You can get into some wild territory if you have a true intention and do it with passion so-to-speak (detached passion ofc). Those states of high energy seep into daily life and it seemed to be working for you, but if you want the transformation that I think you are looking for then you could complement kriya with an investigative, self-inquiry, or the sort technique. Vipassana/mindfulness/self-inquiry. The simplest way is to just rest in that high energy state for as long as you can after the practice (for me it's like doing self-inquiry 24/7, or awareness-on-awareness).

Essentially, both TMI, and Hardcore Buddha Book propose exactly this sequence of focus - at first get your concentration right (one-pointedness, which Kriya can do super effectively) - and then investigate. Then again I don't know, for me I did 5meo and my practice got supercharged after I got in touch with my 'Inner guru' (intuition) so-to-speak. Peak states have seeped into daily life and a sudden ability to effortlessly rest on awareness itself. Awareness-on-awareness. Lots of purging and up-downing - getting used to flipping from a passionate feel-good-about-life state to darknighting to equanimous super-accepting-of-reality-and-myself do-nothing states (less common peak states). The highest peak was ego-death at the cinema, lol it was beatuiful and comical to see myself in the cinema (self-inquiry and mindfulness turn into one).

I truly don't know what will work for you, but if I'd give any advice it is to brute-force it - everything at once - psychedelics, classic meditation, kriya, 24/7 baseline focus. If kriya then I def recommend SantataGamanas books (Kriya Exposed and Secret Power of Kriya) and for psychedelics ramp your tolerance for self-acceptance and openmindedness up smartly (start with mushrooms or acid, and weh nyou feel ready, or have reached a plateau, then 5meo).

And remember that you are an individual and general guidelines might not work for you exactly - experiment with what works for you. You seem to be resonating a lot with classic meditation, which is cool. I don't thing with kriya and meditation its and this-or-that thing but more about how to do both, more of a complementary relationship, lots of potential for integrating them together. So manny books recommended to you lol. I hope you find the time to go through them

Thank you for sharing your experiences, you seem to be floating on cloud 9 with your kriya practice. Have you tried classic meditation before committing to kriya yoga? If so then what made you decide on which practice to pursue?

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6 minutes ago, Pernani said:

Don't you think that one can only reach to that conclusion in their direct experience after lots n lots of practice?

That would be a condition of your own creation, but it doesn't have to be like that.

It's not complicated. You just don't want happiness. If you really wanted it, you would find it. But you don't want it. You want to change yourself and your life because you don't love yourself or your life. It's like saying: I won't allow myself to feel happy unless x is achieved, and y exists in my life, and z is in my bank account. Sure, you can agree to all that, you can tie yourself up, you can handcuff yourself, but why would you? Why not allow yourself to feel happy about not having x, y, or z? Because you hate not having x, y, and z. And that is just because you hold judgements against not having x, y, and z. But why would you hold judgements in the first place? Why would you want to change? Because you think you're not enough. Why think you're not enough? Because others have (explicitly or implicitly) told you so, and you believed them. Why would you believe them? Because you don't value your own voice. Why not value your own voice? Because you don't love your own voice. Why not love your own voice? Because you think it's bad or ugly, and because you hate it. Why think that and hate it? Because you hold judgements against your own voice. Why hold judgements in the first place? Because....... Fill in the blanks and keep up with this inquiry until something cracks and you catch the insight.

8 minutes ago, Pernani said:

Otherwise I'd just end up wasting my time like I've already been for the majority of my life.

Of course, every moment spent in suffering is a waste of time imo. Why would anyone want to suffer? In exchange for what? Do you really believe that you have to make sacrifices in order to get things in life? To me that is a silly belief.

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3 hours ago, Juliano Zn said:

@The0Self Is it possible to progress in meditation or kriya if you live in a noisy environment? Getting into Jhanas or just be in the after effect poise of Kriya? Here where I live, every 5 minutes a dog start to bark or some other noise distracts me. I find that the only thing that helps is to kind of expand yourself and allow the noises to be part of you, but it is distraction anyways.

 

 

It can seem to matter in the beginning but really it doesn't need to matter. You might allow them to be in the periphery - fill the whole body with awareness kind of like filling up a balloon, so there's not a whole lot of room left over for distractions. Get there by gently but firmly returning to the breath whenever you gleefully notice that you're distracted.

Unless you can remain attentive to the breath sensations indefinitely, your main focus should be cultivating the readiness to emit appreciative joy upon noticing you're distracted - this positive feedback will cause your mind to associate "noticing you're distracted" with "good," and eventually you'll rarely ever get distracted (because as soon as distraction would arise, it instantly would turn into "noticing you're distracted," meaning there just is no distraction).

Edited by The0Self

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@The0Self I've tried The Mind Illuminated method for over a year and was stuck at stage 4, and this: "Unless you can remain attentive to the breath sensations indefinitely, your main focus should be cultivating the readiness to emit appreciative joy upon noticing you're distracted" is what I was missing. Now I'm practicing Kriya, but I'll get back to TMI in the future. Thank you!

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8 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

That would be a condition of your own creation, but it doesn't have to be like that.

It's not complicated. You just don't want happiness. If you really wanted it, you would find it. But you don't want it. You want to change yourself and your life because you don't love yourself or your life. It's like saying: I won't allow myself to feel happy unless x is achieved, and y exists in my life, and z is in my bank account. Sure, you can agree to all that, you can tie yourself up, you can handcuff yourself, but why would you? Why not allow yourself to feel happy about not having x, y, or z? Because you hate not having x, y, and z. And that is just because you hold judgements against not having x, y, and z. But why would you hold judgements in the first place? Why would you want to change? Because you think you're not enough. Why think you're not enough? Because others have (explicitly or implicitly) told you so, and you believed them. Why would you believe them? Because you don't value your own voice. Why not value your own voice? Because you don't love your own voice. Why not love your own voice? Because you think it's bad or ugly, and because you hate it. Why think that and hate it? Because you hold judgements against your own voice. Why hold judgements in the first place? Because....... Fill in the blanks and keep up with this inquiry until something cracks and you catch the insight.

Of course, every moment spent in suffering is a waste of time imo. Why would anyone want to suffer? In exchange for what? Do you really believe that you have to make sacrifices in order to get things in life? To me that is a silly belief.

I totally get what you're getting at. Though I have to ask you, were you able to achieve this sort of happiness by letting go of everything and accepting it all?

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7 hours ago, Pernani said:

I totally get what you're getting at. Though I have to ask you, were you able to achieve this sort of happiness by letting go of everything and accepting it all?

Duh! Of course. But it's just the first step. There's an infinite depth to discover ahead of me. Getting in touch with your authentic self is the important thing. The rest does not really matter and will take care of itself.

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