Be careful with ego work

[Bratcat]

Hi everyone!

First of all, I'd like to say that I truly appreciate most of Leos content and do not want to cancel ego work.
However I would like to share my experiences in hopes of helping someone else see the traps I walked into.

Since I was a child I've always been a mix of being deeply insecure and kinda narcissistic. I was tested to have an intelligence above average and from that moment on I based my entire value on it. I never learned how to properly learn because in my pride I thought I can only prove my intelligence if I get good grades without working for them. I wasn't the most empathetic child, I think I was around 16 when I noticed that and started actively and slowly changing.
It is still deeply ingrained in me, that I have to continously act intelligently and never make a mistake to prove my worth.

A couple of years back I discovered Leos videos and ego work and it came as a blessing to my struggle to always do the right thing. Because suddenly there was no real right or wrong, there was no me, so in turn, there wasn't anything that could hurt me. I felt free. But also, I felt better than everybody else (ego), I felt as though I had seen a truth noone around me had yet discovered, and at the same time I was scared to share it with them because I thought they wouldn't understand.

Of course I wanted to be good at ego work, so in my head I started questioning and critizising everything I thought and valued. I was passive in most discussions because when you don't know the whole truth (which you don't if you aren't god) no opinion is better than a partly blind opinion.

Then I got into a relationship with a person who was equally as insecure, though I think it was rooted not in their narcissistic nature but their constant devaluation during childhood. They were on the journey of keeping ones ground and maybe overdid it sometimes. So in a sense we were completely opposed: I tried to constantly be neutral but wanted others to just see how I was right, whereas they tried having strong opinions even though sometimes it was just for the sake of having an opinion and it wasn't actually about defending their truths.
For the first time in my life I had to really get along with another person. There was no runnning from conflict, no faking apathy (because feelings) and no discarding the other person I was in disagreement with.

As you can imagine, due to me trying not to identify with any values or personality aspects I was deeply vulnerable. I often felt powerless, misunderstood and manipulated. As a result over the following months I started losing my self worth. I couldn't prove it anymore through being right, I also couldn't stand being wrong or leaving a conflict unresolved. My interest in education and self-development plummeted because I couldn't identify with it anymore.

I'm now at a point where I need to find all those values, traits and interests i really identify with and leave ego work to the side.
Maybe someday I'll be ready for it, maybe it just isn't for me.

I hope someone reads this who can learn something from this without going through the same thing
Also I'm open to any advice on how to go from where I'm at right now!
Have a nice day

PS: I do realize that this was in fact my ego feeding off the idea of becoming enlightened (better than others). I still think that at the moment I don't have the right capacities to do some real ego work.

[Nahm]

@Bratcat

How has daily morning meditation been going?

What is coming up, and what is being done about it, if anything?

[Scholar]

This is why I do not particularly like the approach Leo has for teaching spiritual development. He is very transparent and blunt with what the process is, how it will evolve and where it is supposed to arrive at. This leaves the information to be very vulnerable to be hijacked by the ego or to be used in any way the ego thinks is correct.

His teachings are very big on deconstruction. Whilst deconstructing he is also constructing ideology that is intended to be used as scaffolding to aid the individual on their journey. Combine that with the fact that there is noone to actually guide the individual with this information and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

Leo's teachings are more like the map of an explorer, who explains to you in detail what you can expect, how the terrain looks and so forth. This is why he has to be so detailed in his explanations, because he must give you the necessary information for you to then explore the terrain yourself and arrive at any given destination. It is in the end your responsibility to do the journey, there is no guide, only the map. You can imagine that this can lead to people getting lost, because even if they have the map, they still might not be skillful enough to do the journey by themselves.

Combine that with the fact that the map Leo provides is not yet completed and that actually any individuals will start the journey with different pieces of the map (watching a few videos and basing their decisions on those rather than having watched all of them) and you can see how much problems someone who takes the journey might face.

 

Other practices heavily involve teachers who do not simply give you a map, but rather guide you through the process. A zen master will not tell you everything about the process, the evolution and where you will arrive. That isn't necessary because they are there to guide you. They can walk through the terrain with you and help you whenever you get lost or face an obstacle.

 

Leo is giving the map to the ego, so in the end the ego is free to do devilry with it. Ultimately Leo has no control over this, he is relying on you to be as autonomous as he is. This works for a certain kind of person, but for many others this can be dangerous.

 

 

From what I can tell you have deconstructed certain parts of your ego far too soon. You have not developed a healthy ego, which is something you build over time. There needs to be a balance between deconstruction and construction. How will you have motivation to meditate, do yoga and so forth if you have deconstructed your motivation to do anything? This clearly will not work. You cannot just deconstruct any given part and expect to be able to build a wonderful castle. This requires deep knowledge of the ego in the first place, which you do not have.

 

Instead of deconstruction, explore more of who you are. Don't judge yourself for any given thing you desire or hate. I have seen the deep dysfunction in many of the users on this forum, many of whom pride themselves in their deconstruction of things like compassion and fairness. They have a very myopic and simplistic view of spiritual evolution. They think everything should be deconstructed and let go of, they cannot see the beauty and importance in the evolution of egoic structures and what they allow us to do.

 

Allow yourself to become aware of yourself and who you are without judging whether you are being "spiritual", "highly evolved" or "egoic". Just observe, appreciate it and understand it. You first understand, then you might deconstruct. Because if you deconstruct before you understand, you will never understand. Some things do not need to be deconstruct.

 

 

This bastardization of spirituality as being nothing but a deconstruction machine to me is deeply dysfunctional. Spirituality is equally about creativity as it is about dissolution.

And if in doubt, always choose love over hatred.

 

 

[Farnaby]

@Scholar wow what you mentioned is really interesting and I see it like that as well. A healthy ego is not a bad thing at all. Actually, I think it's really important for a healthy self esteem. I too see many people who would benefit from constructing this who get caught up in concepts like "everything is an illusion" and then can't find the motivation for anything mundane at all. Maybe everything is an illusion but we have a body with needs and we feel better when we take care of these needs.

As long as you are aware when you're acting from your ego so you can disidentify from that which holds you back, everything's fine.

I'm not sure if compassion and fairness stem from the ego though or did I understand you wrong?

[Scholar]

3 hours ago, Farnaby said:

@Scholar I'm not sure if compassion and fairness stem from the ego though or did I understand you wrong?

Compassion and ideas/perceptions of fairness can be seen as egoic structures that serve a purpose for survival, it depends on how you look at things.

[kag101]

9 hours ago, Bratcat said:

never make a mistake to prove my worth.

You should definitely work on removing that. Perfectionism can be a huge problem.

I struggle with that as well. It's getting better, but it sure is a persistent son of a bitch...

9 hours ago, Bratcat said:

I felt better than everybody else

That's very common. It's called spiritual ego. The sneakiest of all egos...

9 hours ago, Bratcat said:

I'm now at a point where I need to find all those values, traits and interests i really identify with and leave ego work to the side.
Maybe someday I'll be ready for it, maybe it just isn't for me.

To transcend the ego, you first need to have one.

No-self is not about being dissociated from the physical world.

 

IMO, I think you're right. You should let go of spirituality for now. If you keep on this track, it will make matters worse for you.

[Romer02]

@Scholar I really appreciate this write up as a heads up. I've done plenty of work and it seems to be very interesting and also feels amazing to see reality from many different perspective. I do sometimes fear that unwanted knowledge will arrive at me at the same time I do feel lost in the journey but I'm not frightened it just seems like different terrain. 

[Bratcat]

@Scholar  What you wrote makes a lot of sense to me, thank you. I need to learn to focus on the next step instead of the whole map.