2 questions

[Kelpie]

First off, I have not done any of the drugs that users of this forum have used to reach enlightenment. However, I have always believed that life was something incomprehensible and beyond our understanding rather than the solid materialistic world most people believe it to be. After reading through this forum, I still have 2 questions. 

1- For those of you who believe we are all God generating the universe-  How can you be sure that we don't live in an objective reality that simply produced beings with consciousness who CANNOT DISTINGUISH whether we live in an objective reality or not, INSTEAD OF us simply being god generating reality? And when I use the term objective reality, I mean an objective reality that is beyond any sort of comprehension at all. Because any perception is by definition, biased and subjective. Objective reality can never be known by consciousness.

 

2- Whether there is an objective reality or whether consciousness is all that exists, why do we perceive an orderly world instead of PURE randomness?   

 

Thank you

Edited June 12, 2020 by Kelpie

[Nak Khid]

right, so called "reality"  is on

11 minutes ago, Kelpie said:

 I have always believed that life was just a dream

 How can you be sure that we don't live in an objective reality

If life is a dream how can it be an objective reality?   

Dreams aren't objective reality 

[EnlightenmentBlog]

I ain't saying I believe these things, these are just food for thought.

1 - You can only experience reality subjectively through your limited human form. You project an objective reality out there, but you can't prove there is one. Even science hasn't proven it. If you're sceptical about taking psychedelics cos you think they mess up your brain, watch Leo's "Why brains do not exist" video. They have the power to break you out of your human form and show you you're God generating the universe.

2 - Maybe it is randomness and you perceive it as some kind of order. Did you perceive order when you were a baby? 

[JosephKnecht]

On 6/10/2020 at 10:57 PM, Kelpie said:

Because any perception is by definition, biased and subjective. Objective reality can never be known by consciousess.

You have answered your first question there. Your first question is biased and subjective. Objective reality can not exist without the Subject. To realize what exists beyond objective reality, you must collapse the subject-object duality. 

On 6/10/2020 at 10:57 PM, Kelpie said:

Whether there is an objective reality or whether consciousness is all that exists, why do we perceive an orderly world instead of PURE randomness?

You can not survive in pure random reality. If today you are a human, and tomorrow you wake up as a horse, you will think you went insane. Reality must have a perceived order in order for you to be able to ask this question. 

[Kelpie]

1-  Of course objective reality can exist, in its infinitely complex nature. It just can never be known or understood by any consciousness. We can just be living in an objective reality that happened to produce beings of consciousness who believe they are God manifesting the universe when on psychedelics. Of course, we might actually be God generating the universe, my point is how can you distinguish between these two equally convincing possibilities? Both are beyond our imaginations.

 

2- That doesn't answer my question. If we are beings of pure consciousness, there are an infinite number of realities we can generate, and the number of realities that are completely random outnumber the number of realities that are orderly by a ratio of infinity. 

Also, If we are God generating the universe, why is "survival" needed at all if consciousness cannot "die"?

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Kelpie

[Synchronicity]

2 minutes ago, Kelpie said:

 If we are beings of pure consciousness, there are an infinite number of realities we can generate, and the number of realities that are completely random outnumber the number of realities that are orderly by a ratio of infinity. 

Correct, there’s an infinite number that can be experienced. That means one of the ones that’ll be experienced is a reality that’s more consistent rather than noticeably random. Hence, this relatively consistent reality. This is just one of the realities being experienced. 

[Kelpie]

Ok, but if we are God generating the universe, why does our reality continue to be orderly each infinitesimal increment of "time"? If the number of purely random realities outnumber orderly realities by infinity, why has our reality not collapsed to pure randomness at any of the infinitely small units of time that has made up our lives? (I use the word time with full awareness that it is an illusion, I just needed an appropriate word to illustrate my point)

Edited June 12, 2020 by Kelpie

[Synchronicity]

Just now, Kelpie said:

Ok, but if we are God generating the universe, why dos our reality continue to be orderly each infinitesimal increment of "time"? If the number of purely random realities outnumber orderly realities by infinity, why has our reality not collapsed to pure randomness at any of the infinitely small units of time that has made up our lives? (I use the word time with full awareness that it is an illusion, I just needed an appropriate word to illustrate my point)

Because there’s infinitely many realities being experienced. Infinitely many are orderly, infinitely many are random, and infinitely many are in other states. So there’s infinitely many beings experiencing an orderly reality. You’re experiencing one of them. Chaos doesn’t outnumber order. There’s infinite amounts of both. Both are experienced 

[Kelpie]

All right. then tell me, if consciousness exists to "experience" without regard to whether its experience is orderly or random, where can you find a consciousness that is experiencing pure randomness? 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Kelpie

[Synchronicity]

Just now, Kelpie said:

All right, then tell me, where can you find a consciousness that is experiencing pure randomness? 

For any type of experience you name, there’s going to be an endless number of them happening in an endless number of places. So there’s no particular world designated to random experiences. There’s infinitely many such types of worlds. 

[Kelpie]

According to this forum, worlds do not "exist", only consciousness dreaming of the world. So again, why do we perceive an orderly world our entire "life" or "dream", whatever you want to call it, when our reality could have collapsed into randomness at any point?

[Synchronicity]

Just now, Kelpie said:

According to this forum, worlds do not "exist", only consciousness dreaming of the world. So again, why do we perceive an orderly world our entire "life" or "dream", whatever you want to call it, when our reality could have collapsed into randomness at any point?

Because if orderly experiences didn’t happen, reality wouldn’t be infinite. It would be limited to only including random experiences 

[Kelpie]

I'm sorry synchronicity, I don't think we are really understanding each other.

[Synchronicity]

I’ve answered your question three times. Here’s each step to my answer:

1. Reality is infinite 

2. Therefore, it must include both orderly and random experiences/dreams (because infinity can’t exclude anything, not even orderly experiences) 

3. Therefore, orderly dreams like this life will inevitably be experienced. Hence, here you are

Edited June 12, 2020 by Synchronicity

[Kelpie]

Yes I understand your argument, I just don't agree with it at all. 

[Synchronicity]

Just now, Kelpie said:

Yes I understand your argument, I just don't agree with it at all. 

That’s perfectly fine. I was under the impression that you didn’t see the reasoning. Nothing wrong with disagreement 

[Kelpie]

In mathematics, there are an infinite number of sizes of infinity. The integers are the smallest size, the irrational numbers the next smallest size. It seems to be the number of random realities should be the largest possible size of infinity, and the number of orderly realities the smallest size of infinity. And yet here we are dreaming of an orderly world. 

[Synchronicity]

Just now, Kelpie said:

In mathematics, there are an infinite number of sizes of infinity. The integers are the smallest size, the irrational numbers the next smallest size. It seems to be the number of random realities should be the largest possible size of infinity, and the number of orderly realities the smallest size of infinity. And yet here we are dreaming of an orderly world. 

There’s still an infinite number of integers and each integer still exists. 2 still exists. So Smallest size doesn’t mean nonexistent 

[Kelpie]

I would like to believe that there is a higher entity in objective reality, beyond any possible imagination, that is "benevolent" in nature precisely because we are not experiencing pure horrific randomness rather than order, instead of us each being God.

[Synchronicity]

Just now, Kelpie said:

I would like to believe that there is a higher entity in objective reality, beyond any possible imagination, that is "benevolent" in nature precisely because we are not experiencing pure horrific randomness rather than order, instead of us each being God.

Nothing wrong with that