Someone here

What is the fundamental nature of reality?

89 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Show me.. How am I doing this?  It's not in my direct experience. 

It’s good that you’re skeptical in life but u also need to be skeptic of your own mind.

Leo is not the first one who is talking about the same truth..

Meditate, do some self inquiry, maybe psychedelics if u want to speed the process and then u increase your possibility to direct experience what they are talking about.

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@Heaven how fascinating is that direct experience? Also how long would it take to achieve on average? 

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2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Show me.. How am I doing this?  It's not in my direct experience. 

When people are telling you that "I can't explain it, you have to do the work", that just means that they don't understand it well enough to put it into words. Sometimes I'm also guilty of this, but now I'm attempting to answer this question for you now.

You have to see the want of the ego first to see that it's not what you really want. 

The ego wants mostly two things: 

  1. avoid pain
  2. get pleasure/comfort

Notice that these two things won't help you to evolve. If you avoid pain then you won't get stronger, if you're in your comfort zone, you don't develop yourself. 
So if you love yourself, you have to accept pain and discomfort in your life because that's what keeps you growing.

But suffering is unnecessary. Suffering is not pain. Suffering is the resistance against what is. So you suffering is the want to get out of pain. And suffering is also the want to get more pleasure/comfort. So basically, every egoic want is in itself suffering.

Once you realize, that you don't want to suffer anymore, you'll start to want the present moment more than anything, simply because that's the best training ground for your self-development. The present moment is also the Truth. In spirituality, wanting the Truth is the same as wanting the present moment. It's that simple. Everything leads to this. 

Alan Watts did an amazing job explaining the nature of desires: 

 

Edited by Barna

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2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Show me.. How am I doing this?  It's not in my direct experience. 

I can't show you.

But a psychedelic can ;)


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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3 hours ago, Preetom said:

Delusion, self deception and forgetfulness.

Only a few lucky ones receive an Illuminating, vivid dream that re-contextualizes the waking state. Use it. Contemplate on your own questions you asked here. You already know the answers to them. The dream showed you the answers to it. Probe into the lessons and hints the dream trying to show you.

@Someone here

So far my contemplating led me to the following :

1- the "real world" in the waking state is no different from the dream's world in terms of the apparent phenomenon. It's just that the latter is more consistent and more logical. 

2- the substance of reality is completely unknown. Could be matter or imagination but that doesn't say anything about what it actually is!, 

3 - also whether it be this or that I still don't know why anything exists at all whether it's matter energy awareness God etc 


I live my life in a dream; the constant threat of a rude awakening keeps me on my toes.
-Mettley Zimmer

 

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I can't show you.

But a psychedelic can ;)

Well I didn't try psychedelic but from hearing other people's stories it gives them mystical experiences and they start hallucinating stuff and then the chemical goes off and they are back to the normal perception of life.  I don't know why should we think  a hallucinating drug can give us explanation of the nature of reality. 


I live my life in a dream; the constant threat of a rude awakening keeps me on my toes.
-Mettley Zimmer

 

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7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Well I didn't try psychedelic but from hearing other people's stories it gives them mystical experiences and they start hallucinating stuff and then the chemical goes off and they are back to the normal perception of life. 

‘What has been seen cannot be unseen’

It will wear off, yes, but what was seen you won’t forget. Your heart and mind will be opened to  a previously unimaginable degree. So that now you know ‘what is possible’. 

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I don't know why should we think  a hallucinating drug can give us explanation of the nature of reality. 

You don’t know because you haven’t tried

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20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

the substance of reality is completely unknown. Could be matter or imagination but that doesn't say anything about what it actually is!, 

You are the ‘substance’ of reality. You can come to know Thyself.

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25 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So far my contemplating led me to the following :

1- the "real world" in the waking state is no different from the dream's world in terms of the apparent phenomenon. It's just that the latter is more consistent and more logical. 

2- the substance of reality is completely unknown. Could be matter or imagination but that doesn't say anything about what it actually is!, 

3 - also whether it be this or that I still don't know why anything exists at all whether it's matter energy awareness God etc 

Attaboy. Keep contemplating.

1) the more 'consistency' and 'logic' is just another more features of the dream. Just like some dreams are fleeting, vague while some are colorful and vivid.

2) the substance is nothing. Its really nothing and the mechanism that is adopted for appearance is imagination/abstraction. Something seeming but not really there.

3) forgetfulness and self delusion is the name of the game. The very fabric of dream; the engine that makes it possible to appear in the 1st place is forgetfulness, self delusion and denial of this being the case.


''Not this...

Not this...

PLEASE...Not this...''

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How do you know this?   How is it possible that nothing imagines something?  If reality is absolute nothing it should be nothing forever and we can't be here even as an imagination. 0+0+0+0+0+0 to infinity is still zero!  If you have nothing at all you can't have something. If I want you to make me a meal I have to give you some raw material "food" to make thr meal. But if I give you "nothing" you won't be able to turn that nothing into food! 

What does it mean "seems there but not really there".. It's either there or it's not.. It might be a mirage or a dream like but that doesn't change the fact that something of any kind is just there. Hope that makes sense. 


I live my life in a dream; the constant threat of a rude awakening keeps me on my toes.
-Mettley Zimmer

 

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I hope to find answers to my questions!


I live my life in a dream; the constant threat of a rude awakening keeps me on my toes.
-Mettley Zimmer

 

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4 hours ago, Someone here said:

How is it possible that nothing imagines something?  If reality is absolute nothing it should be nothing forever and we can't be here even as an imagination. 0+0+0+0+0+0 to infinity is still zero!  If you have nothing at all you can't have something.

These are the paradoxes of non-duality. Nothing = Everything.

Like a hologram, it appears to be, yet is nothing.

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I hope to find answers to my questions!

These answers aren’t found on the level of mind/thinking/concepts. This is why only you can discover the Truth. Nobody can give it to you. All we can do is give pointers. And we can only point so much.

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18 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

 

 

These are the paradoxes of non-duality. Nothing = Everything.

Like a hologram, it appears to be, yet is nothing.

These answers aren’t found on the level of mind/thinking/concepts. This is why only you can discover the Truth. Nobody can give it to you. All we can do is give pointers. And we can only point so much.

Thanks for trying to clarify but I still didn't get my answers. Nothing is not everything in my simple logic.. Nothing is not anything it's just a self contradictory concept. And again I'm open to the possibility that reality might be not what we think it is.. We might be living in a simulation.. I might be dreaming right now etc but that only means  that the substance of reality is not what we think it is and does not mean it's "unreal". The notion of reality being a total illusion just doesn't make any sense.

So far my own investigation can't go beyond what is conventionally known that reality is just this material system with certain laws and logic to it and we don't know why it's there or what's beyond it but the only thing we can be sure of is that it's there and it's this way. 

Edited by Someone here

I live my life in a dream; the constant threat of a rude awakening keeps me on my toes.
-Mettley Zimmer

 

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6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

We might be living in a simulation..

We are not. That is a concept born out of ignorance. Consciousness is Reality is The Ground. I think Leo made a video about this very subject.

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Nothing is not everything in my simple logic.. Nothing is not anything it's just a self contradictory concept

There might be something beyond ‘simply logic’ and seeming contradictions waiting for you to discover ;)

 

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6 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

We are not. That is a concept born out of ignorance. Consciousness is Reality is The Ground. I think Leo made a video about this very subject.

There might be something beyond ‘simply logic’ and seeming contradictions waiting for you to discover ;)

 

How can "consciousness" be the substance of reality?  I'm having a hard time figuring this one out.  Consciousness is apparently a quality that certain creatures have like humans and animals.. A rock ain't conscious for example.. It doesn't see or touch or smell or even know that it exists. Unless if you redefine the word "consciousness" to mean something else than what it was originally intended for. This "nothing" or whatever but i don't see any "nothing" here.. All i see are limited distinct things!


I live my life in a dream; the constant threat of a rude awakening keeps me on my toes.
-Mettley Zimmer

 

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6 hours ago, Someone here said:

So far my contemplating led me to the following :

1- the "real world" in the waking state is no different from the dream's world in terms of the apparent phenomenon. It's just that the latter is more consistent and more logical. 

2- the substance of reality is completely unknown. Could be matter or imagination but that doesn't say anything about what it actually is!, 

3 - also whether it be this or that I still don't know why anything exists at all whether it's matter energy awareness God etc 

Love your attitude!

1- Have you noticed that consistency and logic are not inherent features of this dream? Furthermore, have you noticed that these things don't exist unless you think of them? You might say that your direct experience says otherwise. Cool. Try to explain how it's so without using thoughts. Can you? That's how you imagine reality. Without imagination (i.e. awareness and not consciousness), you wouldn't know whether you're alive or existing or not.

2- Imagine a scenario where you've witnessed a beautiful sunset. After a few hours, you go on telling that story to some of your friends. The telling of the story is equivalent to the thoughts in your mind. The thoughts in your mind about reality are not what reality is. What is reality? If it clicks, then you will see that reality is just itself. All labels are mere pointers and they're fundamentally irrelevant. So, in a sense, you're on point here. The substance of reality is completely unknown, but it is experienced, lived, being made aware of, etc... (stories/pointers).

3- The answer to this question is very advanced. It is Infinite Love. But you probably have a distorted concept of that, which is not your fault. None of us knew without inquiring deeply using the question "why?" with genuine curiosity. I'd focus more on meditation and being able to see the thoughts from a detached position. The rest will unfold naturally.

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5 hours ago, Someone here said:

How is it possible that nothing imagines something?

How? I could give you the answer, but it probably wouldn't penetrate. There is genuine curiosity here with this question. I love that! Yet, notice how the mind is conditioned to make conclusions based on prior experiences (memories). Notice how the following assumptions create confusion:

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

If reality is absolute nothing it should be nothing forever and we can't be here even as an imagination. 0+0+0+0+0+0 to infinity is still zero!  If you have nothing at all you can't have something. If I want you to make me a meal I have to give you some raw material "food" to make thr meal. But if I give you "nothing" you won't be able to turn that nothing into food!

These are all good assumptions to have when conducting an experiment or an investigation on the personal level. These are stories and knowledge acquired by the mind through experiences on a timeline of seemingly consistent reality. That's fine. Having these assumptions can be helpful in many situations. Yet, when you are inquiring into the nature of reality looking for the ultimate answers, I find it way more helpful to go meta on all the assumptions/mental constructs. Notice how the mind assumes that if reality is "this" then it "should" or "shouldn't" be "that". I want you to see first that whether you think reality is nothing or something or everything or anything in between is irrelevant to what reality actually is. Consider the sunset analogy in my previous post. Reality is itself. The labels are fine as pointers if not confused for the actual thing. This confusion between thought and reality often causes trouble. Can you accept that if reality was "something" then there's no should statements for how it can be "something else"? After all, who sets the rules? If logic is a mental construct gained from a personal experience over a particular timeline, then how would you know logic is fundamentally true at all times? ( even though dreams prove it to be otherwise/fluid/changing). Also, how would you know that logic existed before you were born? Before the big bang? Etc.. Why would reality be logical? For God's sake, how's reality logical?! How's existence logical?! The beautiful feeling of wonder shows that there's something more to reality than just dumb logic. There is a mystery. Reality is mystical. How can reality even be?! Keep at it. Keep wondering. The answer is under your nose.

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

What does it mean "seems there but not really there".. It's either there or it's not.. It might be a mirage or a dream like but that doesn't change the fact that something of any kind is just there. Hope that makes sense. 

Notice these are just thoughts. Drop them and come be in touch with reality. Let go of the stories. And come observe the sunset! ;)

Edited by The observer

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1 hour ago, Someone here said:

How can "consciousness" be the substance of reality?  I'm having a hard time figuring this one out.  Consciousness is apparently a quality that certain creatures have like humans and animals.. A rock ain't conscious for example.. It doesn't see or touch or smell or even know that it exists. Unless if you redefine the word "consciousness" to mean something else than what it was originally intended for.

Yes. Consciousness is not the same as awareness. A human being or an animal has awareness. A rock does not. Pretty obvious stuff. Consciousness is not necessarily aware. It can have zero to infinite awareness. For better inquiry, try to not use these pointers as truths. They serve a purpose to illustrate certain aspects and qualities of reality but all of them are ultimately limited. They cannot capture the essence of reality itself just as much as I cannot capture a beautiful sunset with words.

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Well it's not philosophical it's actual one and just 2 words needed. 

INFINITE (PURE ACTUAL) LOVE. 

Zen boy without psychs fucking nailed it. (you wanted it that way, yeah it's true Truth is Truth doesn't matter) 

Edited by zeroISinfinity

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