Covid19 - Fear, control, the TRUTH?

[DivineSoda]

Both sides of this debate are being irrational to a degree. We don't know as much as we think we do. We believe and make the facts fit that belief. 

Let's allow radical open-mindedness to apply more here ?

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

MIT graduate doctor

[The observer]

5 hours ago, Commodent said:

And it doesn't matter, because you were spreading disinformation 

twice. ill just list them here for other people to see for themselves

misinformation #1: 

10 hours ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

it is on par with the normal flu. The vast majority of people who have Covid 19 are asymptomatic and not being accounted for in treatment centers. Divide those numbers by deaths and you get in a 1% mortality range, on par with a normal seasonal flu.

wrong death rate for the flu and wrong death rate for covid-19 and still in denial of providing misinformation

misinformation #2:

8 hours ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

Further, even when we are testing, depending on the type of test used, we may only be counting people who are actively infected, not those who had it and are thus currently immune.

this is flat out false and without evidence. i dare anyone to provide scientific data on this claim. fuck even the flu does not end with immunity have you guys not got sick more than once in your entire life?!

@DrewNows so what does this suggest? i am open to but these are extremely bold claims that suggest a worldwide conspiracy that nobody is intelligent enough to expose except for that guy from which youre quoting. this is outrageous and is not at all reasonable to say the least.

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by The observer

[DivineSoda]

“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field. I’ll meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about.
Ideas, language, even the phrase “each other”
doesn’t make any sense.
The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you.
Don’t go back to sleep.
You must ask for what you really want.
Don’t go back to sleep.
People are going back and forth across the doorsill
where the two worlds touch.
The door is round and open.
Don’t go back to sleep.”

-Rumi

[The observer]

9 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

The death rate would grow exponentially.  Let's see what happens in Sweden. 

its already 9% death rate and increasing. on the other hand australia is probably one of the best countries to handle the disease their death rate is 56 deaths out of over 6200 cases so that's 0.9% which is 10 times better than sweden. sweden government is just being careless and irresponsible

but lets put the occurrence rates aside and only divide the number of deaths by the population. in australia we have 56 deaths out of over 25 million people so thats ~0.2 deaths out of each 100k people. in sweden we have over 870 deaths out of over 10 million people so thats ~9 deaths out of each 100k people. in simpler numbers for every million people in australia only 2-3 people will die from covid-19 while in sweden for every million people about 90 have died already and a lot more people will keep dying as long as the government is acting carelessly. comparing 2 deaths to 90 deaths thats like 40 to 50 times more deaths and people are still in denial. but the numbers dont lie and the government in sweden is literally killing their people.

so @DrewNows lets not use the false positives argument again and @TrynaBeTurquoise lets not use the false negatives argument again cuz australia has done way more tests than sweden.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing

Edited April 11, 2020 by The observer

[w4read]

5 hours ago, The observer said:

its already 9% death rate and increasing. on the other hand australia is probably one of the best countries to handle the disease their death rate is 56 deaths out of over 6200 cases so that's 0.9% which is 10 times better than sweden. sweden government is just being careless and irresponsible

but lets put the occurrence rates aside and only divide the number of deaths by the population. in australia we have 56 deaths out of over 25 million people so thats ~0.2 deaths out of each 100k people. in sweden we have over 870 deaths out of over 10 million people so thats ~9 deaths out of each 100k people. in simpler numbers for every million people in australia only 2-3 people will die from covid-19 while in sweden for every million people about 90 have died already and a lot more people will keep dying as long as the government is acting carelessly. comparing 2 deaths to 90 deaths thats like 40 to 50 times more deaths and people are still in denial. but the numbers dont lie and the government in sweden is literally killing their people.

so @DrewNows lets not use the false positives argument again and @TrynaBeTurquoise lets not use the false negatives argument again cuz australia has done way more tests than sweden.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing

Dude, your'e projecting so much it's insane. You're accusing people of spreading disinformation and then you say in the next sentence that the swedish goverment is just being careless and that they're literally killing their people. Like really? Do you think they just don't care and that they're killing they're people. What kills the people is THE VIRUS. Common man!

Instead of having this mindset why not ask the question "what could be the positive reasons why they would have loose restrictions?" Because that's more likely the reason why they chose they're strategy, not that they don't care about the people. 

[The observer]

@w4read okay im sorry i overreacted there but thats only cause im worried about the lifes of other people. what do you think the reasons are anyway? i cant wrap my head around this cause almost all other european countries acted differently

[w4read]

@The observer I truly believe that most people share your concern, and in fact that's why some people are critical of having too high restrictions. It could actually be that all the things most countries do, turn out to have a greater cost than what the benefits are worth.  Economists ( in their attempt to quantify things) have tried to analyse everything and put a price tag on all the restrictions and find out how much they can cost society. When doing this, they haven't just looked at reduction in GDP, unemployment rates and other economic consequences, but also all social and health issues that can potentially come from the lockdown itself. 

For example kids who are vulnerable and have abusive parents can suffer greatly in these times, and people who are lonely, have mental illnesses etc., and don't have access to psychologist will also have a hard time. The fact that the economy suffers and could suffer for years to come is just one of these costs and that of course can turn out to have tremendous effects on society in the long run. In my country they've actually estimated that the net benefit of high restrictions is significantly lower than looser restriction ( like opening psychologists, kinder gartens and schools and so on) when you compare potential long term effects. These are of course highly uncertain prediction which really is the key lesson: we simply don't know what's best. At least in certain countries. 

Also, in sweden they are actually adviced to take the same precautions as other countries, it's just not forced in the same way with strict rules and punishment for breaking them. 

However, the point here is not to try to prove you wrong. To be fair, I actually think it's good that most people stay inside and don't go out unless they absolutely need to. And myself I would gladly follow the restrictions even if my country didn't enforce them. But this is a very complex situation and it's too early to say what's right and what's wrong. As of right now, everyone is just doing their best and taking whatever decisions they think is best based on their perspective and understanding of the situation.

[Commodent]

@TrynaBeTurquoise I said some not so nice things in this thread, and I just wanted to say that you're a good guy and that I have nothing against you despite our disagreements.

❤️

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

45 minutes ago, Commodent said:

@TrynaBeTurquoise I said some not so nice things in this thread, and I just wanted to say that you're a good guy and that I have nothing against you despite our disagreements.

❤️

I appreciate you. I did not mean to go at you personally at all either if it seemed like that.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

Free speech censorship is now happening to well credible academic sources that have nothing to do with "conspiracy theories" around questioing the validity of the social distancing protocol and shutting down the econonmy:

Please people start to wake up to what is happening in the world right now!

[The observer]

@TrynaBeTurquoise perhaps theres nothing else that we can do about it have u considered that governments r doing their best to protect their people and economies? i can justify the censorship as a way to save humanity from being stupid by not sticking to the best chances we have against the virus. perhaps its true that social distancing is not good enough but its the best in hand and it would be stupid to reject it entirely just b cuz its not efficient enough. if 5% of the world dies its still better than wiping out 90% of humanity so i guess thats what ppl who censor the silly questioning that does not provide any other solutions do