The Inevitable Discussion About Psychedelics And Enlightenment

[Boza Maps]

It would be extremely interesting and, I think valuable if Leo did a video ten minutes after a controlled D.M.T. flash/trip. Why you haven't already Leo? 

 

[Leo Gura]

I will shoot a video about psychedelics at some point. Not ready to share my full thoughts on them yet. It's a deep and nuanced topic.

[Azrael]

I'd guess that "Self-Actualization" isn't the right place to discuss DMT-Trips and that this is better off in "Meditation, Consciousness, Enlightenment, Spirituality". Also SWIM has done some heavy research intellectually and also experientially and somehow comes to the conclusion that DMT-Trips can give you very deep personal / spiritual insights and are amazing to do (for emotionally VERY stable people) but I think the long-term usage for spiritual growth is nothing compared with a habit like meditation.

 

It's nice to experience it and can deepen your spiritual growth (so SWIM experienced it with all traditional psychedelics when done with a lot of discipline and spiritual targeting) but it probably won't enlighten you (with some rare exceptions) and that's for a good reason.

 

Check out PsychedSubstance, he is actually one of the rare exceptions that got to a stage of satori with LSD and he himself said that he wasn't ready for it. Use psychedelics with caution and they can help you a lot but don't see them as little tricks to skip the process.

[Guest Kingkong123]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I will shoot a video about psychedelics at some point. Not ready to share my full thoughts on them yet. It's a deep and nuanced topic.

May I ask you to define "at some point"? I'm really excited about this. 

[Boza Maps]

L.S.D. slightly off topic. In ball park but not same game. Terrence McKenna the go-to guy on this one.

[Leo Gura]

32 minutes ago, Hellsgunz100 said:

May I ask you to define "at some point"? I'm really excited about this. 

6 to 12 month range.

[charlie2dogs]

over time i have listen to many people who talk about the use of psychedelics and their spiritual experience, at the same time i observe their programing, and belief systems in things that basically control their lives in every way.  My first question to them is what does spiritual mean, and what will a person who is programed with a false belief system get from an experience on drugs, what kind of experience will it really be considering their programing and false belief which has basically imprisoned them in a place that limits their ability to see, hear, speak, think, taste and feel.  I myself dont think that enlightment, self realization, self actualization can be attained with drugs, you cant be something with drugs that you haven't attained to in a raising of your own consciousness and i dont think that drugs will raise your level of consciousness but that it might help to keep you trapped in a false belief system.  Another question i ask a lot of people and so far i get no real answer except for some beliefs, and that is how do you know when what you think you know is real.  I have always viewed drugs as a crutch for those who are programed and hold  false belief systems and warped perceptions of life, based on my life experience awakening and a raising of ones consciousness takes time and a lot of effort and i dont see drugs playing into it, i can only see drugs reinforcing what you already are.

[Lullemie]

Especially the point that psychedelics are limited to reinforcing what's already within you was something Albert Hofmann (the scientist who discovered LSD) always stressed when he talked about its use.

[Genghis Khan]

Psychedelics are very good for opening the mind, effective especially against dogmatic beliefs. They beat down the ego and show you how much your thinking is normally clouded with unnecessary thoughts, and judgements.

DMT in itself is an extremely intriguing substance with loads of ideas and theories that go into it.

Personally, I think that DMT heightens your senses and your brain activity so much that it goes haywire and unleashes it's full, raw potential.

The effects from these psychedelics are coming from within, the psychs merely trigger it. So for me, if I were to put DMT to use it would be to help investigate what my mind is, and in turn, what reality is. For a truth seeker, it's highly valuable to check out.

[Emerald]

Six years ago, when I was twenty, I tried Ayahuasca twice, five months apart from one another. The active ingredient in Ayahuasca is DMT. Although I now recommend substance-free spiritual seeking as the transformative effects are impermanent, I consider these to have been very valuable because I experienced egolessness for a few hours of my life. I generally don't recommend it to others because it gives the illusion that the insights attained from the experience can be applied abstractly to life, but most of these insights can't be applied abstractly. I made a lot of foolish decisions afterward because of this misjudgement. That said, it was valuable in the sense that I had a firsthand experience of ego transcendence and now don't have to practice faith to do the emotional labor of seeking, because I know that it exists and that the payoff will be for want of a better word, incredible.

[WaveInTheOcean]

20 hours ago, charlie2dogs said:

over time i have listen to many people who talk about the use of psychedelics and their spiritual experience, at the same time i observe their programing, and belief systems in things that basically control their lives in every way.  My first question to them is what does spiritual mean, and what will a person who is programed with a false belief system get from an experience on drugs, what kind of experience will it really be considering their programing and false belief which has basically imprisoned them in a place that limits their ability to see, hear, speak, think, taste and feel.  I myself dont think that enlightment, self realization, self actualization can be attained with drugs, you cant be something with drugs that you haven't attained to in a raising of your own consciousness and i dont think that drugs will raise your level of consciousness but that it might help to keep you trapped in a false belief system.  Another question i ask a lot of people and so far i get no real answer except for some beliefs, and that is how do you know when what you think you know is real.  I have always viewed drugs as a crutch for those who are programed and hold  false belief systems and warped perceptions of life, based on my life experience awakening and a raising of ones consciousness takes time and a lot of effort and i dont see drugs playing into it, i can only see drugs reinforcing what you already are.

"i can only see drugs reinforcing what you already are."

You have much to learn my friend. You are so prejudiced that it almost hurts my eyes reading this. Go research on psychedelics like LSD, DMT, mushrooms. Both on a scientific level (you will find out that they physically harmless and completely non-addictive) and on a subjective level (reach "trip"-rapports from people on various forums). Best thing  to do is of course try it once for your self. They will not reinforce what you are, but they will destroy your ego if taken in the right way.

Cheers.

EDIT: Of course there are "bad" drugs, like cocaine, alcohol, heroine, nicotine, meth etc.. These drugs are not expanding your consciousness. I'm basically only talking about psychedelics which have immense potential. 

 

Study-source: http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/2/4/e000774

Also here are three, relatively new, studies on psychedelics:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150121093544.htm
Title: Classic psychedelic use protective with regard to psychological distress and suicidality

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150309174507.htm
Title: Psychedelic drug use could reduce psychological distress, suicidal thinking, study suggests

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130819185302.htm
Title:  LSD and other psychedelics not linked with mental health problems, analysis suggests

Edited February 8, 2016 by WaveInTheOcean

[Heart of Space]

This is NOT a thread trying to promote the use of illegal drugs.

I scoured the user guidelines to make sure this is a Kosher topic for this board and it is to the extent that we talk about spiritual growth so keep that in mind. 

This is a topic I am very interested in and I know a lot of people in this community are as well.  My first experience with psychedelics was the single most mind blowing experience that I had ever had up until that point in my life.  I believe that these experiences can raise your level of self-awareness significantly and show you the most detailed inner workings of your mind.  You become separate to yourself and are able to objectively evaluate everything as if you're looking at things from the perspective of a newborn.  The knowledge that I've acquired on these experiences is why I'm here on this forum part of the community.  Leo has repeated very precisely and consistently things that I've learned with these experiences, which confirmed to me that he is legitimately a very self-aware person.  People who've actually seen, for example, that there is no free will are very few in number. 

I understand that this point of view is met with skepticism from those who haven't had similar experiences.  You absolutely should be skeptical on this topic, but make sure it's a healthy skepticism and that it's not a negative view of drugs in general that taints your view.  It's also not an easy pill to swallow (pun intended) for those who've spent hundreds of hours meditating to know that the knowledge they've acquired could have been received by simply ingesting a small amount of a chemical which alters your brain chemistry. 

I abstain from psychedelics now, and have for several years.  I strictly use meditation as a form of self-exploration.  I will probably continue down this route, since meditation allows for more meaningful changes in your mind and life in general.  There was someone who had a great analogy for when comparing psychedelics and meditation practice. 

Psychedelics allow you to look from an outside window into the house of enlightenment.  Meditation allows you to live in it. 

Anyways, I'm really interested to hear opinions from both sides.  Whether you think these experiences are just delusional drug highs, or you agree that they are tools that allow you to see deeper into reality. 

[Xochipilli]

For all interested in the topic this book gives a nice overview:

The Psychedelic Future of the Mind: How Entheogens Are Enhancing Cognition, Boosting Intelligence, and Raising Values

by Thomas B. Roberts

[Michael]

On 7/2/2016 at 3:44 PM, Leo Gura said:

I will shoot a video about psychedelics at some point. Not ready to share my full thoughts on them yet. It's a deep and nuanced topic.

Have you tried dmt yet?

Edited February 17, 2016 by Michael

[Mad Cat]

On 2/7/2016 at 4:25 PM, charlie2dogs said:

over time i have listen to many people who talk about the use of psychedelics and their spiritual experience, at the same time i observe their programing, and belief systems in things that basically control their lives in every way.  My first question to them is what does spiritual mean, and what will a person who is programed with a false belief system get from an experience on drugs, what kind of experience will it really be considering their programing and false belief which has basically imprisoned them in a place that limits their ability to see, hear, speak, think, taste and feel.  I myself dont think that enlightment, self realization, self actualization can be attained with drugs, you cant be something with drugs that you haven't attained to in a raising of your own consciousness and i dont think that drugs will raise your level of consciousness but that it might help to keep you trapped in a false belief system.  Another question i ask a lot of people and so far i get no real answer except for some beliefs, and that is how do you know when what you think you know is real.  I have always viewed drugs as a crutch for those who are programed and hold  false belief systems and warped perceptions of life, based on my life experience awakening and a raising of ones consciousness takes time and a lot of effort and i dont see drugs playing into it, i can only see drugs reinforcing what you already are.

... You don't see the contradictions here? Casting judgmental doubt on people's epistemology is a dangerous game, it easily turns around to bite you back; how do YOU know your belief systems are reliable? What makes you the irrefutable expert on what is real?

[charlie2dogs]

On 2/8/2016 at 2:38 PM, Heart of Space said:

This is NOT a thread trying to promote the use of illegal drugs.

I scoured the user guidelines to make sure this is a Kosher topic for this board and it is to the extent that we talk about spiritual growth so keep that in mind. 

This is a topic I am very interested in and I know a lot of people in this community are as well.  My first experience with psychedelics was the single most mind blowing experience that I had ever had up until that point in my life.  I believe that these experiences can raise your level of self-awareness significantly and show you the most detailed inner workings of your mind.  You become separate to yourself and are able to objectively evaluate everything as if you're looking at things from the perspective of a newborn.  The knowledge that I've acquired on these experiences is why I'm here on this forum part of the community.  Leo has repeated very precisely and consistently things that I've learned with these experiences, which confirmed to me that he is legitimately a very self-aware person.  People who've actually seen, for example, that there is no free will are very few in number. 

I understand that this point of view is met with skepticism from those who haven't had similar experiences.  You absolutely should be skeptical on this topic, but make sure it's a healthy skepticism and that it's not a negative view of drugs in general that taints your view.  It's also not an easy pill to swallow (pun intended) for those who've spent hundreds of hours meditating to know that the knowledge they've acquired could have been received by simply ingesting a small amount of a chemical which alters your brain chemistry. 

I abstain from psychedelics now, and have for several years.  I strictly use meditation as a form of self-exploration.  I will probably continue down this route, since meditation allows for more meaningful changes in your mind and life in general.  There was someone who had a great analogy for when comparing psychedelics and meditation practice. 

Psychedelics allow you to look from an outside window into the house of enlightenment.  Meditation allows you to live in it. 

Anyways, I'm really interested to hear opinions from both sides.  Whether you think these experiences are just delusional drug highs, or you agree that they are tools that allow you to see deeper into reality. 

the one question i would ask is does a self realized or acutalized being use drugs, did they use drugs to attain that state of being, the ones that i have heard dont use drugs, have always heard them talk against drugs. Maybe the goal of many using the drugs is not to be self realized, a vid leo did on spiritual growth, real or fake comes to my mind, maybe drugs is associated with fake spirituality,  what ya think heart of space?