IJB063

Avoidance of Necessary Suffering is the Root of all Mental Illness

29 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, IJB063 said:

@Martin123  Hey Buddy, I've was in an argument with Betgr164128 a week ago in this thread

 

It wasn't an argument. It was a discussion. If you decided that it was an argument then that's probably something to with the mood you were in. 

1 hour ago, IJB063 said:

@Martin123

Yes mate, I understand its an idea, like everything else, truly profound

I'm curious about that idea in particular 

That's the point of the thread, is suffering necessary

Not that everything is a idea 

No, suffering isn't necessary. Not in my opinion anyway. 

1 hour ago, IJB063 said:

@Martin123 I 'm not trying to express an ideology, I haven't brought up politics previously

I never said you were trying to express an ideology. I think because you were so triggered reading the post I think you read a post that wasn't tagged for you. 

But ideology goes beyond politics. Ideology is creating a narrative, that's what the ego is, a story, an ideology, a personal philosophy. It stops people from connecting with others because if the ideology is threatened (like it was here) the person goes deeper into survival mode and tries to hammer down harder on the story by creating a story about the perceived enemy. The ego has to create a story in which the enemy is wrong and has all these issues, because without it the personal ego would feel very vulnerable. 

1 hour ago, IJB063 said:

@Martin123

I don't think people should be banned from a forum designed to help people discover that they are wrong

I think calling to ban people because they disagree with you is worse and more trollish, than not being a "genuine self actualizer"

I didn't call a ban because he disagreed with me. I called on a ban because I think it's counter productive to have to waste time discussing things with materialists who are ideological. The forum guidelines that Martin 123 pulled up says clearly that anyone perpetuating an ideology and who isn't a mystic is going to get banned. This guy is focused on getting people to follow his own kind of spritual practice , but to do it you have to become familiar with all this materialist psychology stuff that does nothing except create a barrier between you and other perspectives. It literally turns into an ideology. I saw it in you and you confirmed it with your behaviour. You got lost in your own assumptions because you're not able yet to drop ideas and see with your own eyes how things are. So much of last comment to me was chock full of assumption that I couldn't really respond to it. There was no point because you weren't talking to me, you were talking to a construct in your mind , an internal representation of me, but not actually me. Your ability to contact me was crippled by your abstract mind.

1 hour ago, IJB063 said:

@Martin123 

 

Anyway BETGR164128, when you inevitably read this looking to start another argument, I'm not interested buddy

I was never interested in having an argument anyway. That's your internal representation of me. That's why I did the off after your last post. Like I said, it was pointless trying to communicate with you because you already made up your mind. 

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8 hours ago, Martin123 said:

What a wonderful way to re-frame victim blaming, you're quite skilled with words, well done.
 

Did you just call Carl Jung a crack pot? Oh boy :D That's an interesting judgement you got there. Nicely done, thanks for being so passionate about such subject matter. I am sure there are many more judgments you share with others with equal passion. How intriguing. 

The problem you have is that there is nothing wrong with getting raped or being bullied by a narcissist parent. It's all a matter of perspective. Abuse doesn't actually exist, because the person calling it abuse have their own biases. This is why you're an ideologue, you cling to stories about your nervous system and all that stuff, and if anyone says something that goes against your ideology you have to attack. Gaslighting doesn't exist either for the very same reason. I could turn your own ego game on you and say that your behaviour here is abusive and you're gaslighting me. But I can't because I just don't believe that these positions are real. They are relative and ultimately non existent. It's a dream you're caught in 

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8 hours ago, Martin123 said:

And that would be an example of the avoidance, thanks for a skillful demonstration. 

Avoidance of what? Avoidance of your story? Nothing happened for anyone to avoid. Im not avoiding anything because in my head there is no abuse. It's only in your head that you think these things are real. I just think this isn't the place for you, you should be in a therapy group solidifying that collective story with those interested in accepting the narrative you have for them.  

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As a general reminder: it is fine to disagree with others on the forum, yet please do so in a respectful manner. Personalizing attacks and inflammatory posts to incite emotional responses are a form of trolling, against forum guidelines and may receive warnings. 

Common excuses include: "I was just joking" , "I was just telling him/her the truth", "S/he is too sensitive", "S/he started it". . . Please consider both your intention and the impact on other and the forum community. Behave in a mature, respectful manner to your fellow forum members.

As well, there may be areas in which you have had deep realizations that may now seem obvious to you - yet someone else on the forum may not have had this realization and doesn't "get it". Please don't be judgmental and condescending in these situations. Imagine what you were like before your realization. 

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No suffering is necessary.

"Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional."

- Haruki Murakami


I am myself, heaven and hell.

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@Commodent Suffering definition -

11 hours ago, Commodent said:

"Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional."

"The state of undergoing pain, distress, or hardship."

I don't understand your point

Who has lived a life and not suffered

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@IJB063 The people who made that definition probably thought that pain and suffering are synonymous. It's not.

You can never free yourself from pain. However, by letting go of your resistance to pain you will be freed from suffering. Suffering is resistance to what is, which is gone when you start seeing the inherent beauty in pain and all that exists.


I am myself, heaven and hell.

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@Commodent Sure, I understand what you're saying now

Personally when I meditate, when in pain, and focus on the sensation of pain, that pain ameliorates its self

But isn't letting go of the resistance to suffering in a sense suffering

As its very difficult to summon the will to willing focus on pain

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, IJB063 said:

But isn't letting go of the resistance to suffering in a sense suffering

When people try to "let go" of resistance as a way of avoiding suffering then it is indeed suffering. It's the same resisting mechanism.

Letting go of resistance is ultimately a form of surrender. "I have tried everything and there is nothing I can do. I surrender". Even resistance and suffering can be surrendered to, so this runs pretty deep.

Surrendering is not really a doing. It's more of an attitude, that of aligning with what is. Instead of resisting resistance, allow yourself to resist with your entire being. Align yourself with your inherent freedom to experience whatever you are currently experiencing, which is joyful in a way that far ecompasses whatever suffering might be going on in the moment.

That is what liberation is. The recognition that you are free to suffer, just like you are free to be well.

Edited by Commodent

I am myself, heaven and hell.

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