how do you reconcile endless suffering?

[Jo96]

To context this I am not really suffering that much in this life time. I’m rather happy from day to day. I have my flaws. I have had a few enlightenment experiences but for the most part I took about 1-3 percent back each time. I’m still working but I’m not overly consumed by the process either. One thing that I have been circling around is the concept of hell. Not the christian hell but just the idea of infinity and realizing that if everything is infinite there is room for endless amounts of suffering some of which is unfathomable. How does realizing your god fix this? If you’re god you’re going to eventually take limited finite forms 

 Wouldn’t this eventually circle back places that are an intangible amount of suffering? Is this just the truth? How do you guys deal?  

[Gnosis]

You don't reconcile "endless suffering".

You reconcile and heal what arises.

That's all.

[Jo96]

@Gnosis

2 hours ago, Gnosis said:

 

2 hours ago, Gnosis said:

You don't reconcile "endless suffering".

You reconcile and heal what arises.

That's all.

But if all is all then parts of you are endlessly suffering. If an avatar is suffering then eventually you will be that avatar ? 

[Nightwise]

I don't know if there is such a thing as infinite or endless suffering (not referring even to time-span but to intensity). I of course hope not from my human perspective. I'd like to hope there is some limit in which if you were to go beyond that you would fall unconscious or pass out, or there would be some hard stop or a breakthrough, or some limit of suffering in which no form of consciousness has ever dares to trespass, or something like that.

But it's a bit strange to think about it if you yourself were God and it was fully your choice to go and experience that deep, agonizing suffering or if you were to choose to step out of it. Now THAT is hard to reconcile.

Some thought I do find comfort in is that what I regard to be the least favourable realistic scenario of how existence works is the idea that there can never be more suffering than there can be joy and happiness in the total experience through the course of what's perhaps an infinite lifespan of the soul. The idea that we as souls were to suffer more than we were to experience joy in the total sum of things, seems also from a rational perspective also just unrealistic. We then would come to experience an equal amount of peace and joy than we were to come experience suffering.

And this scenario described here above would be pretty much the worst case scenario of what I regard to be somewhat realistic. Another possibility is that suffering are just very temporary, short-lived experiences and that most of the time in the lifespan of our souls we abide in the bliss and joy of God. That then seems a whole lot more comfortable to think about. Suffering in that sense would then be considered 'rare'.

But honestly, we then could even ask what all of that would mean if we then were to say that 'time is an illusion' and those sort of things, making it once again another complete mindfuck, so in the end, I don't really know what to make of it or what to think about it, so it's best to just forget about it all instead of trying to seek some comfort in a thought and go with what Gnosis had said, which is this statement: 

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You don't reconcile "endless suffering".

You reconcile and heal what arises.

That's all.

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Nightwise

[MrDmitriiV]

1 hour ago, Nightwise said:

I'd like to hope there is some limit in which if you were to go beyond that you would fall unconscious or pass out, or there would be some hard stop or a breakthrough, or some limit of suffering in which no form of consciousness has ever dares to trespass, or something like that

Unfortunately, there are hellish states of consciousness. I experienced one, and it was horrible. God is brutal. Though it only lasted a few hours, it did traumatize me.

1 hour ago, Nightwise said:

But it's a bit strange to think about it if you yourself were God and it was fully your choice to go and experience that deep, agonizing suffering or if you were to choose to step out of it. Now THAT is hard to reconcile.

From God’s point of view, there’s no such thing as evil or suffering. Only Love. 

I don’t see why god wouldn’t create creatures who’d suffer for thousands or millions of years in hellish states in one lifetime. 

[Arzack]

Does pure evil exist? No, if it did, anyone failing to attain nirvana would be sent to hell forever. The paradox is that at the peak of a breakthrough dose bad trip (right before the switch to bliss/nirvana), it feels like eternal hell even though it actually lasts for 1 or 2 breaths at most.  This is why people who have NDEs say they felt like they were in hell for weeks.

Taken from my site here: https://www.reddit.com/r/speedruntonirvana/wiki/phase3

And to cite Epicurus: 'don't be afraid of pain, if pain is intense, it doesn't last too long; if it lasts for long, it's not very intense.'

Anyway you can't have the good without the bad, even angels feel like hell for occasional short periods of time, I can't find the source but it was a channeling from the Micheal Teachings.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Arzack

[Jo96]

3 hours ago, Arzack said:

Does pure evil exist? No, if it did, anyone failing to attain nirvana would be sent to hell forever. The paradox is that at the peak of a breakthrough dose bad trip (right before the switch to bliss/nirvana), it feels like eternal hell even though it actually lasts for 1 or 2 breaths at most.  This is why people who have NDEs say they felt like they were in hell for weeks.

Taken from my site here: https://www.reddit.com/r/speedruntonirvana/wiki/phase3

And to cite Epicurus: 'don't be afraid of pain, if pain is intense, it doesn't last too long; if it lasts for long, it's not very intense.'

 

Yeah within the context of a human life as experience life at this specific configuration. Psychedelics May change the dials or configurations. But how can we know or conceive of if this is the only configuration? What if the states in which we are thinking we are experiencing differences in configurations is limited to our configuration in this existence? In other words hell could exist we just can’t imagine it with the level of pain/ pleasure of being human.  These dials will only turn infinitely far but with limits (like calculus) relative to our specific configuration. 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Jo96

[Jo96]

3 hours ago, MrDmitriiV said:

Unfortunately, there are hellish states of consciousness. I experienced one, and it was horrible. God is brutal. Though it only lasted a few hours, it did traumatize me.

From God’s point of view, there’s no such thing as evil or suffering. Only Love. 

I don’t see why god wouldn’t create creatures who’d suffer for thousands or millions of years in hellish states in one lifetime. 

 God is all. Within god exists finite versions that believe in evil. Therefore doesn’t god also have evil and suffering that it fully believes in? How is the ultimate perspective more important than a finite perceptive. From the point of infinity the relative and the ultimate can ground one another but you cannot say one is higher than the other. 
 

I’ll freely admit if I’m wrong. I want to be wrong. But this is the perspective I see it from right now. 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Jo96

[Nahm]

@Jo96 Read about The Buddha, and his understanding of pain vs suffering. What you’re doing is ruminating. That is suffering. 

[Jo96]

13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Jo96 Read about The Buddha, and his understanding of pain vs suffering. What you’re doing is ruminating. That is suffering. 

I realize I am ruminating. This issue comes back and bothers me every time I think about god and infinity and non duality. No one has really given me an answer that’s satisfying in my life.  The only answer I’ve ever gotten that’s made sense is to just let it go. But even then that’s not really satisfying because there’s no resolution or a definite yes or no about this. I’ve tried to live my life but this is all pervading in the background. Because I think to myself even if I have an enlightenment experience would I not still be stuck in the cycle of birth and death and ultimately suffering? 
 Ultimately the reason I seek truth is fear. And the reason I don’t see truth is again fear. 

[Nahm]

7 minutes ago, Jo96 said:

I realize I am ruminating. This issue comes back and bothers me every time I think about god and infinity and non duality.

Then stop choosing to think about it. Do something that you enjoy instead. That is very much more “the path”. 

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No one has really given me an answer that’s satisfying in my life. 

Yep. Do the practices, and do stuff you actually enjoy. Make a dream board filled with it. Let go of any thought which doesn’t eel good to you, no matter what it’s about. Allow the healing. It will rise, like a cork underwater which one lets go of. Just relax and allow. 

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 The only answer I’ve ever gotten that’s made sense is to just let it go. But even then that’s not really satisfying because there’s no resolution or a definite yes or no about this

That’s great advice. Recognize, letting it go, means it has been let go. No “need” for satisfaction of a “problem” which doesn’t exist in your mind because you, let it go. Practices, writing about feeling now, these are ways of letting go too. It’s all about allowing the healing. Then, the rumination is a thing of the past, and everything on your dream board is your future. When a resistant thought arises, it is so much more noticeable, and the art of letting go is priceless. You can’t hold a problem and solution at the same time. Consciousness is creation, and as such, it “just doesn’t work that way”, no matter how much we fight it. 

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. I’ve tried to live my life but this is all pervading in the background. Because I think to myself even if I have an enlightenment experience would I not still be stuck in the cycle of birth and death and ultimately suffering? 
 Ultimately the reason I seek truth is fear. And the reason I don’t see truth is again fear. 

That’s the rumination. A habit of ol. 

Practices, writing about feelings in the present, understanding emotions, dream board & creating your life. 

Only follow this “advice” btw, if it resonates, if what you want, feels good to you. 

“How do I reconcile endless suffering” = “How do I experience a different movie...while I keep watching this one”