Questions regarding Suicide

[Milos Uzelac]

How does one overcome, understand and face one's suicidal thoughts and tendencies in relation:

1. to regressing heavily in personal development

2. not being fully socially adapt and contributing in some ways daily to the rest of your society and

3. not holding to one's own set values dialy that correspond with personal life goal and purpose in relation to self and others

Is suicide always unconscious or possibly justified at higher stages of development at a particular context? 

Is there a time period of going through a form of hell for the ego mind/body that commits an unconscious form of suicide that settles one's energies in order for them to be able give birth to another form of existence? If so how long does it approximately last according to human time understanding? 

Is there a hierarchical principle of stages of life achievements and personal development at which one dies or commits suicide that determine what will one reincarnate as in samsara after some time? For example if I kill myself now at 22 having not worked a day in my life and not contributing almost nothing to society and still having pretty bad habits of being lazy will I reincarnate for example as a simpler form of life a worm or some plant and how in that context does one through the process of samsara earn to become human again? 

Does one have the one of the set goals as a newborn human being  to overcome one's one inherited family problems (for example such as suicide or tendency of feud and betrayal in the family? and there is also passage in the Old testament of inherited sin, from the book of Numbers 14:18)

(I am not in a suicidal mood or rut now I just had theses questions when I was but I haven't overcome the aforementioned problems in the long term yet) 

[ajasatya]

2 hours ago, Milos Uzelac said:

For example if I kill myself now at 22 having not worked a day in my life and not contributing almost nothing to society and still having pretty bad habits of being lazy will I reincarnate for example as a simpler form of life a worm or some plant and how in that context does one through the process of samsara earn to become human again? 

It doesn't work like that. Your life right now is a consequence of an infinitely long and complex chain of events. Everything and everyone is your past reincarnation, for you're not an individual in the most fundamental level... you're the Universe itself living through many forms.

I'll give you an example. Suppose that the father of a small boy commits suicide and the experience is so traumatic that the boy grows mentally disturbed. What if that disturbed adult has a child? It's very likely that the child will grow under the toxic influence of his/her disturbed father. And nobody in this tragic story is a reincarnation of someone in particular. Rather, they're all the same Entity living different perspectives, thinking that they are individuals.

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Milos Uzelac said:

How does one overcome, understand and face one's suicidal thoughts

How does one overcome, understand and face the continual slamming of a hammer onto one’s hand? By noticing you don’t have to. 

 

and tendencies in relation:

1. to regressing heavily in personal development

Meditation is great for not believing thoughts. Don’t be afraid of the emotional purge, it is the relief you want. 

2. not being fully socially adapt and contributing in some ways daily to the rest of your society and

You are socially adapt, you are not separate of society, it includes you. You hold the belief of judgement. You learned it. Meditation is great for letting beliefs go. Again, don’t create fear around this, it is the letting go you are wanting. 

3. not holding to one's own set values dialy that correspond with personal life goal and purpose in relation to self and others

Values are beliefs, goals are beliefs, purpose is belief, self & others is belief. Meditation, purification; all relief, all letting go of this stuff. 

Is suicide always unconscious or possibly justified at higher stages of development at a particular context? 

Suicide is another belief. Meditation. Let go. 

Is there a time period of going through a form of hell for the ego mind/body that commits an unconscious form of suicide that settles one's energies in order for them to be able give birth to another form of existence? If so how long does it approximately last according to human time understanding? 

That is all beliefs. 

Is there a hierarchical principle of stages of life achievements and personal development at which one dies or commits suicide that determine what will one reincarnate as in samsara after some time? For example if I kill myself now at 22 having not worked a day in my life and not contributing almost nothing to society and still having pretty bad habits of being lazy will I reincarnate for example as a simpler form of life a worm or some plant and how in that context does one through the process of samsara earn to become human again? 

You are believing things you read, things people say. None of that is true. You are what is true. Meditation - let go of all these beliefs which keep you overthinking, trying to reconcile them. It’s madness! Let. Go. !!

Does one have the one of the set goals as a newborn human being  to overcome one's one inherited family problems (for example such as suicide or tendency of feud and betrayal in the family? and there is also passage in the Old testament of inherited sin, from the book of Numbers 14:18)

All your beliefs. You believed all this, you literally created the beliefs. You can let them go just as easily. There is nothing to solve, nothing to ’get’. Let. Go. You are perfectly enough exactly how you are. You don’t need anything, you are just believing thoughts to the contrary.  

(I am not in a suicidal mood or rut now I just had theses questions when I was but I haven't overcome the aforementioned problems in the long term yet) 

You recreate the suffering in your telling of the same old beliefs. Start telling the story you actually want. Start meditating twice a day. Watch the miracle of life change right before your very eyes. 

 

[Skanzi]

I'm soon going to make a long and probably quite a controversial topic on the notion of suicide, or suicidality. IU've worked on it already a bit, but I'm not done yet. Right now I'm busy with other processes so it has stalled for a little bit, but it's probably going to come out in a couple of days.

I have made a previous post on the topic of suicidality some two years ago, which I will link you to. However: Note that this was two years ago that I had written this, and my understanding about suicide and suicidality has deepened significantly. I had a tremendous insight into the nature of suicidality almost a year ago. 

But I will give you the link anyways since it may still very wel help you. Read the rest of my reply though before you click the link.

https://psychcentralforums.com/depression/494523-whats-point-potent-reasons-choose-life-over.html?fbclid=IwAR3tWuDHuDFT7OOAxaMkoK8RN3xPC164po7qQ2rXEK0EjPqc43wkbonkeAM

The important difference as to regard with my understanding about suicide or suicidality then and my understanding about it now, is that I've completely veered off from the idea that suicide is something that needs to be prevented, something that is evil, something that is bad and you should not do. In my realization I had almost a year ago, I realized that there is actually nothing objectively bad about the decision to commit suicide. You inherently have the freedom to do so, and God or existence will not punish you for committing it. If you commit suicide, it is my feeling that you will end up in a new incarnation in which you then get to choose the ideal conditions for your next life, also having taken into account how you have acted (including your decision to commit suicide) in your previous life. I'm not saying you will necessarily be better off in your next life —as what has not been resolved in the previous life has to be resolved in the next one, or the one after, or the one after, or the one after... It all depends whenever you decide to choose to allow spirit to guide you instead of your ego-based identity.

But... suicide won't make it worse also. The unconsciousness in which you allow yourself to be possessed by that moves you to the decision to commit suicide will make it worse, but it is my feeling that the very act of suicide itself is neither good or bad. It just is. Nobody or nothing is going to punish you for the decision to commit suicide. But the ego-mind which you had decided to cling to prior to the final act of self-imposed death will make a vengeance, as suicide has not permanently resolved its identification with it. But you may get a temporary relief up until the point that the ego-mind starts re-establishing itself in the next level you are going to play in the game called life.

So the whole problem with trying to prevent others or ourselves from committing suicide is that we do not understand that the ultimate purpose of life is not about survival. Whether we decide to commit suicide or not is not essential. The ego doesn't permanently evaporate when we commit suicide, but for the same coin our ego also doesn't leave us if we persist in continuing in our ego-based struggles where we insist that we must survive life at every cost, even though our life may be an almost continuous torment.

In fact, to insist that we must survive life at all costs is, if we really think about it in a clear objective way, simply an absolute insanity! Because life is not about survival! It's ultimate purpose is awakening, not survival! What's the point of merely trying to survive, trying to stay positive, trying to fend off reasons and feelings that seem to support quitting the game, and trying to find and attach ourselves to reasons that seem to support our continuation of the game? (In actuality, it is the level we're quitting, but most people believe they will quit the game altogether, which I feel is impossible).

Now to answer your questions: 

Is suicide always unconscious or possibly justified at higher stages of development at a particular context? 

Good question. I have heard stories about sages willfully leaving their own body because they have decided that their work is done for that particular incarnation. The stories have said however that they don't leave the body by doing something crude like hanging themselves, but that they can consciously leave their body through leaving it through the navel, as so I've heard.

So I think that indeed at higher stages it can be justified. In fact, even at lower levels of consciousness if you really focus your energy and will to succeed in this one goal of taking your own life, it is in a way of looking at it more justified or at least more respectable than those who end up committing suicide in a fit of desperation. I myself had a time where I had very willfully tried to focus my energies to take my own life, trying to make it a very conscious and deliberate act. As you can tell, I had not succeeded but I really tried to devote myself to doing it. It is my feeling that if I had had succeeded in taking my own life this same spirit of devotion would have greatly benefited my next life, as opposed to doing it in a sort of eruption of repressed suicidal feelings whilst in a fit of despair. 

I'm not saying I would have been better off had I committed suicide, and probably not worse also. But now it has turned out to be that I get to use this same spirit of devotion in my current incarnation.

True and internalized understanding of the nature of suicidality however ceases to allow any feelings of suicidal despair to ever pervade your being again. And total understanding comes only with total acceptance. In other words: if you are capable of truly and fully accepting the idea that you would or could commit suicide, that you are completely okay with it towards yourself, you would not fear it nor resist it, and thereby paradoxically the whole suicidal desire dissipates. Therefore, my devotion of me trying to commit suicide was not total; there was still judgement and resistance. Because if it was total, I would have come to total peace with my decision to do it. And if I were to come to total peace, then who wants to commit suicide when he is completely peaceful? Then the whole idea seems absurd.

People at very high stages of consciousness however can decide not out of despair but out of a simple, calm understanding that this life has been outlived and that they can choose to leave their body at will to go on to the next journey. Perhaps other older people who are not as consciously developed can choose not out of despair but out of tiredness that also they have been long enough in the body and that they want leave it. But I'm not really sure about it, though.

Is there a time period of going through a form of hell for the ego mind/body that commits an unconscious form of suicide that settles one's energies in order for them to be able give birth to another form of existence? If so how long does it approximately last according to human time understanding? 

I can't really be entirely sure but I doubt it. Not after you're already dead, I feel. Or otherwise not very long after it. However, I have heard a guru that I have a lot of respect for say that whatever your emotional state is at the time of death, it will be magnified 100x more (don't take the number too literal; I doubt it's mathematically completely accurate). So if there's bliss at that moment, bliss will be magnified 100x more, and if there's anguish, it will be magnified 100x more.

Perhaps it is accurate to say that whatever egoic patterns you're holding in your body-mind structure that has been developed throughout this incarnation will have to be evaporated within a very short time span in order to release your soul from the body (which means it will be very intense for a short period of time for it to be released), and then even more deeply embedded unconscious egoic patterns that have been ingrained in the soul-level you take with you to the next incarnation —whether these egoic patterns already existed in you from previous incarnations or were created in this incarnation.

That's my feeling about it, but I'm not totally sure about it.

Is there a hierarchical principle of stages of life achievements and personal development at which one dies or commits suicide that determine what will one reincarnate as in samsara after some time? For example if I kill myself now at 22 having not worked a day in my life and not contributing almost nothing to society and still having pretty bad habits of being lazy will I reincarnate for example as a simpler form of life a worm or some plant and how in that context does one through the process of samsara earn to become human again? 

I don't think you will ever devolve this far down the line, if devolution is at all possible to begin with. That, I doubt too. My understanding in this area has yet to grow further, though.

Neither not contributing to society nor being lazy nor even killing yourself I think will create negative karma. Understand the difference between the act and the quality of which you're doing it by. No act in itself creates negative karma. Any act that may seem to be valuable or honorable by standards of society but is done from a place of ego WILL create negative karma. Karma is not a punishment also; It is you allowing yourself to get more entrenched in the egoic position and thereby creating more pain in the future for yourself as there is more egoic holding patterns you have created for yourself to be detached from, which is always inevitably painful.

Your quality of consciousness decides what is righteous and what is not. If you commit yourself now to the lazy life —as I had to do too— you are ought to create many valuable traits within yourself that is associated with the particular polarity in which you are devoting yourself to. Laziness can, amongst other things, be a form of guarding your own space and rediscovering your inner truth. Later down the line when the pendelum swings you towards the polarity of activity, then all the assets you have learned during your phase of laziness will then be put to use. So you are now growing the roots so that later on the tree can blossom much more vividly.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Skanzi

[Manjushri]

Why commit suicide? Meditate on the reason, get to the root of the desire. What answers do you find? Don't answer with your intellect.

 

Is it because you're unhappy with your current self? Not living according to your values? Then the suicidal drive is a call to growth.

Is it aggression towards yourself? Is it out of strong kleshas? Which ones?

Is it because you're suffering too much? If so, why are you suffering? Is there another way out?

 

[Milos Uzelac]

@ajasatya

On 06/10/2019 at 4:11 PM, ajasatya said:

It doesn't work like that. Your life right now is a consequence of an infinitely long and complex chain of events.

Thank you for this answer I contemplated for a bit in the past couple of days in my  daily life on it It helped me a bit to accept some unpleasant events. As for the rest of the answer I cannot comprehend nor sense it in my expereince of life but as a guiding principle I'll try to hold to it and remember it for now in order to act more consciously towards others. 

[Milos Uzelac]

@Nahm Thank you a lot Nahm I rembered your and felt your words at some times in the past couple of days. Undiscipline, distraction, choosing to stick to addictive and heavily ingrained bad habits on the day to day basis (sleeping, porn or masturbation, theorising abstractly etc.) is what kept from enduring in meditating routinely. I will  stick to it since I feel the lack of it now when I don't and I feel that I slip in a lot of unconscious acts when I don't contemplate or meditate routinely in the morning (self reflection on my past acts and habits creates less selfish thoughts and ideas for action that I have on option to fullfil during the day) . The beliefs that I hold are deeply deeply self fullfiling and ingrained in my experience of life and It is going to take a lot of time for me in my current life experience and effort to let go of them fully not only when I am meditating. But thanks again I saved your answers on my phone to have them to help me self-reflect more. 

[Milos Uzelac]

@Manjushri Thanks friend for the care good questions to contemplate on when I fall in that rut. 

[Nahm]

@Milos Uzelac Great to hear man. Good for you. ?? Get yourself a dry erase board too, and start your dream board. Start putting everything you want on it. It’ll flush some misunderstandings out, as well as reveal a great worthwhileness of you, and of life in feeling. It pairs perfectly with meditation, calming the mind and reconnecting with sensation, with your higher self, flushing out some of those innocent conditions.

 

[Milos Uzelac]

@Nahm @NahmThanks for the idea I will  start doing it when I come back home tonight. 

[Manjushri]

@Milos Uzelacno no start contemplating now not when you're in the rut. you need to know exactly what is the root of suicidal ideation to be able to work with it. good luck

 

[Milos Uzelac]

@Skanzi Hey I read your post once plan to read it again, sorry for not responding immediately I had a similar attempt that you specified and had the similiar feelings and experiences regarding the subject. Had the same state yesterday after returning from college. Will read it again after I contemplate on it more when it happens again since I haven't overcome it and arrived at its root.