Ken Wilber talks about politics.

[Cocolove]

It's great to see Wilber talking about politics too. This is live right now^

He has a more critical view of green but its another sophisticated view of politics that uses developmental psychology. I think Leo would agree for the most part.

[Yog]

Neat, I am watching it now. Thanks for sharing!


 

[Leo Gura]

He's critical of Green from above. And he's mostly talking about Green as it crops up in academia.

I think the thing he's overlooking is that our national politics is nowhere near as advanced as academia politics.

So while it makes sense to criticize Green academia from above, this creates confusion if people try to apply this more broadly to our national discourse. The national discourse is so regressive that it's got miles to go before it reaches solid Green. By over focusing on criticism of Green Ken might inadvertently play right into the hands of the status quo and the right-wing.

It's important to not draw a false equivalency between stuff like Fox News and excesses of academia. Whatever criticism academia deserves, stuff like Fox News deserves x10 more.

[Zizzero]

"The only solution to polarization is integrating polarities"
Wilber: "Or war" 

lol. society is fucked 

[kieranperez]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

He's critical of Green from above. And he's mostly talking about Green as it crops up in academia.

I think the thing he's overlooking is that our national politics is nowhere near as advanced as academia politics.

So while it makes sense to criticize Green academia from above, this creates confusion if people try to apply this more broadly to our national discourse. The national discourse is so regressive that it's got miles to go before it reaches solid Green. By over focusing on criticism of Green Ken might inadvertently play right into the hands of the status quo and the right-wing.

It's important to not draw a false equivalency between stuff like Fox News and excesses of academia. Whatever criticism academia deserves, stuff like Fox News deserves x10 more.

I think the reason he does (which I’ll find out soon since I have a good chance at meeting Wilber pretty soon) is that he can’t give a full big picture understanding without criticizing the clear problems of Green collectively and individually. For me, it personally really helped to understand just how deep the problems of Green are since I’m still at Green and the problems of Green are also very connected with the problems of millenial generation and a lot is hinging on the millenial generation. And I don’t think that can go unmentioned and not challenged. Like you said though, it depend on what altitude you’re criticizing them from. It can cause confusion to many lower stage followers but, if were honest, how many people who will even listen to Wilber are at an altitude of Orange or lower? Green, especially in the US (and we do need to draw a distinction between US Green and Northern European Green as they are very different) is very problematic. Nothing fucking gets down with most of the Green cultures and infrastructure and systems and I think this is where Wilber is very spot on. They reject leadership, they reject system, they reject growth hierarchies, they often (not always) reject taking massive personal responsibility, etc. Granted some of those points are true throughout the spiral (particuarly  responsibility and victim mindset) but they are very unique strong qualities in Green which I don’t think can go unmentioned.

I agree with you in principle to emulating a more Green style government and politics as done in Northern Europe but what I see goes unmentioned is the fact that these other European countries aren’t even close to being as multi cultural and thus multi perspectival. Which is a HUGE difference in terms of problems of implementation and also conflict. No Green Northern European country has as much diversity along the spiral as the US where we have a spectrum from Blue indivuals and collective values all the way to small scale 2nd tier indivuals and values. Northern European countries have a more consistent level of altitude among their individuals. That’s a huuuge help. This creates a whole lot more conflict in the US that makes these issues much trickier solve so it helps noting and being honest about the problems.