How would you develop yourself after enlightenment?

[ajasatya]

Just now, CreamCat said:

I want to go far beyond all known limitations in my field of work. Excellence will do it. I want to be satisfied for my work.

hitler was a master of his work, a powerful leader and, of course, a legend. what is missing?

[ValiantSalvatore]

Can ya'll leave grand master Hitler out of the game? 

He had his reasons ok.

[CreamCat]

34 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

hitler was a master of his work, a powerful leader and, of course, a legend. what is missing?

He chose a wrong fight. He could have fought the right things.

Edited May 15, 2019 by CreamCat

[ajasatya]

1 minute ago, CreamCat said:

He chose a wrong fight.

what is a "right fight"? take a deep breath here... this conversation has come to its climax.

Edited May 15, 2019 by ajasatya

[CreamCat]

1 minute ago, ajasatya said:

what is a "right fight"?

One that helps me and others instead of killing them. In my case, the definition of the right fight is not obvious because my line of work doesn't involve murders.

Once I become a master, I will ask that question again. What is the right fight? What is worth fighting for?

Edited May 15, 2019 by CreamCat

[ajasatya]

4 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

In my case, the definition of the right fight is not obvious.

Once I become a master, I will ask that question again.

how will you become a master without picking any fight (since you don't know what a right fight is)?

Edited May 15, 2019 by ajasatya

[Shin]

3 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

One that helps me and others instead of killing them. In my case, the definition of the right fight is not obvious because my line of work doesn't involve murders.

Once I become a master, I will ask that question again. What is the right fight? What is worth fighting for?

 

That's super abstract.

What do you want to master ?

What do you love to do ?

[CreamCat]

4 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

how will you become a master without picking any fight (since you don't know what a right fight is)?

I know my fight. My fight is to become a very good master in my field of work. Is becoming a master blacksmith the right fight? That's difficult to answer. I just want to become a master of my field.

Edited May 15, 2019 by CreamCat

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat You can already determine now which fight you want to fight for. 

It is already great that you have an intention to become a master and change and/or excel in a field of your choice, especially if you have the capability to do it.

Did you read so far anything or listen to anything about the traditions, if you ask about enlightenment in the context about personal development? 
What did you hope to clarify through your question? 

Edited May 15, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[ajasatya]

2 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

I know my fight. My fight is to become a very good master in my field of work. Is becoming a master sword smith the right fight? That's difficult to answer. I just want to become a master of my field.

at some point of his life, hitler could have thought "alright, now that i have killed thousands, i consider myself a master... of genocide. time to ask myself what a right fight is"

what went wrong?

Edited May 15, 2019 by ajasatya

[CreamCat]

3 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

at some point of his life, hitler could have thought "alright, now that i have killed thousands, i consider myself a master... of genocide. time to ask myself what a right fight is"

Your examples are bad because the vast majority of people work in fields that don't involve murder.

I want to make a name for myself as a creator and inspire others to do the same. That's not going to change the human species, but I want to do it. Not every fight has to affect human species in any major way.

Edited May 15, 2019 by CreamCat

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat You are avoiding the question. Why not take on the perspective for the sake of the perspective...........

[CreamCat]

Just now, ValiantSalvatore said:

@CreamCat You are avoiding the question. Why not take on the perspective for the sake of the perspective...........

I decided that the fight I have been fighting is right for me. But, I cannot answer whether my fight is the right for you.

I'm not trying to do it to appease others. I do it in service of myself and others. Heroes serve humanity in their own ways.

[ajasatya]

6 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Your examples are bad because the vast majority of people work in field that don't involve murder.

ok

suppose i spend the next 20 years of my life studying artificial intelligence and mathematics until i become a world class reference in the field, a true master.

but then all of a sudden my research starts to be implemented by federal military forces to send killing machines to invade territories and kill a lot of innocents.

what went wrong in this case? even though i was a master of my field, my struggle to sharpen my skills ended up being used to implement weapons of mass destruction. time to ask what a right fight is? maybe a little late?

Edited May 15, 2019 by ajasatya

[CreamCat]

7 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

ok

suppose i spend the next 20 years of my life studying artificial intelligence and mathematics until i become a world class reference in the field, a true master.

but then all of a sudden my research starts to be implemented by federal military forces to send killing machines to invade territories and kill a lot of innocents.

what went wrong in this case? even though i was a master of my field, my struggle to sharpen my skills ended up as being used to implement weapons of mass destruction. time to ask what a right fight is? maybe a little late?

The researcher did what it could. Does a computer scientist regret his work just because employers use softwares to put workers under tigher surveillance?

The computer scientist can try to take responsibility and create softwares to counteract surveillance softwares.

It seems you are saying that a finite being shall see infinite moves ahead and see infinite consequences. However, it's usually a bad idea for a finite being to try to see infinite moves ahead. I can't do that. I can counteract whatever undesirable side effects come up.

Edited May 15, 2019 by CreamCat

[ajasatya]

@CreamCat so now you just brought up a big word into the conversation: "responsibility".

can you be precise on how you can develop the highest levels of responsibility on your profession?

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat @CreamCat I think this is a very noble perspective, it this is the whole point that you most likely not understand.

To sacrfice, oneself for a higher cause is very blue. See crusades, missionaries etc. Yet, it is necessary. Or even a hero, dschingis khan was a hero for his folk too, the same with Jeanne d’Arc. 

Creation and non-creation is also a better frame of mind then fight and non-fight. Imo since it involves the process as a process and not a fight as an uphill battle meaning there is always an internal opposition confronting your path.

Creation feels less egoic and struggle~ish.

There have always been underground movements, zealots, avant-gardes, partisans etc.

Was your whole point not to include personal development with enlightenment or spiritual work ?


I am out of the conversation so far, I don't feel I add value currently.


 

[CreamCat]

17 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

can you be precise on how you can develop the highest levels of responsibility on your profession?

You are asking questions I'm not prepared for. That doesn't compute for me.

As a member of a field, taking highest levels of responsibility doesn't make sense. As a human being, it does make sense.

Any expertise can be used for various purposes.

The choice of a profession is not nearly as important as personal development.

You can use your martial arts skills to make or break humans. You can use your computer hacking skills to make or break humans. The same applies to many other fields. You can command your army to save or murder populations.

Right now, I want to master my field beyond all limitations and also become a better human being.

In my case, the right fight is to master a field I'm interested in and become a better human being such that I use my skills to help others.

Edited May 15, 2019 by CreamCat

[ajasatya]

6 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

As a member of a field, taking highest level of responsibility doesn't make sense.

would you be ok with biologists making experiments to generate human sources of internal organs to be sold for high prices? (reference)

who holds more responsibility to ponder/answer this question? members of the biology field or people who work at mcdonalds?

Edited May 15, 2019 by ajasatya

[CreamCat]

2 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

would you be ok with biologists making experiments to generate human sources of internal organs to be sold for high prices? (reference)

who holds more responsibility to answer these questions? members of the biology field or people who work at mcdonalds?

My previous reply answers your question. I don't understand why you are inquisitive about my goals. It feels like nitpicking.

Edited May 15, 2019 by CreamCat