THe higher self and death

[Neorez]

Hi there,

 

I've been meditating and doing personal development for more than a year now, so i'm still pretty new to this. I've been listening a lot to the talks of Alan Watts. One thing he speaks about is death and that after you die it's the same thing as before you were born. A few weeks ago I had this knowing that I couldn't die, that my my body will die but that,because we are all one and other people will be born after we die ,that there will always be one experiencing life. Basically I can feel that  this is the case but I can't explain it. 

 

Now then I hear a lot of spiritual seekers about the idea that if one dies you shed the body and move on to another of their choosing. This to me sounds like a duality. They speak about a higher self and being an immortal being but where is the oneness in all of this. To me it sounds like they have upgraded their ego's to identify with the higher self but remain separated. 

I hope I explained my self as clearly as possible. As I said I’m pretty new to this and my experience with spirituality is still limited. Can someone clarify this for me?

Edited January 30, 2019 by Neorez
Gramatical errors

[KyleR]

I’m relatively new to spiritual awakening aswell and wonder about similar questions, also initially raised to me by Alan Watts, what a guy! 

I thought I experienced the process of death and rebirth this weekend under the influence of lsd. I accepted my ‘fate’ but could still feel, this feeling is what brings life to my ego? I can still feel so why am I here? My mind concluded that to be here, to be real is to feel, my little point of awareness is all I’ve known as I’ve shifted through the paradigms of life but everything that made me me crumbled into infinity and I lay rested from a heightened point, watching a highlight reel of everything that made up my egoic existence, realising its insignificance while the gods prepare me for another life, flushing away all my bad.

Nothing but everything is of importance anymore, but the feeling of my heart remained, once that pops what will be next? I will be here but from a different point of awareness, but who will be aware of that? Can awareness be aware of itself without intelligence to validate it? It felt like a game and we are the characters of life, everything that is important to me felt like a momentary whiff, a dream, and once I’m (the ego) shut off the game will continue forever without a trace of my little corner, yet it all seemed to make sense in my head. New hopes and dreams ready to be born again into the brain and heart of another little body, over and over again and if lucky, wondering how and why its here. My inexperience will shine through this post but my trip relates to your post and to try and answer your question, my guess is that awareness is oneness is everything experiencing itself through a fragmented universe of individual life forms??? Plus so much more I’ve no idea?but I do embrace learning from higher perspectives during this peculiar journey???

Edited January 31, 2019 by KyleR

[ivankiss]

Higher Self exists. It could be also called as "the higher mind". Or "the true self".

But ultimately it's still just you. Higher consciousness. Higher perspectives. More love, more wisdom. More true you.

Death is a story. Yet it is definitely possible to experience it in many ways. The experience in itself is very real and feels that way as well. But it is nothing but an experience. 

Now what happens after one experiences death, depends solely on one's level of evolution. How awake one is. How aware. How liberated.

That will dictate one's experience after the experience of death. Or make all experiences seize altogether;

Until one awakens again for another eternity.

Edited January 31, 2019 by ivankiss

[Jkris]

@ivankiss do you have the experience of the moment when one enters in to sleep? 

Do you have the experience of moment of waking from sleep? 

Can you clarify - there are many ways to experience it? 

I think after death there is nothing to experience. Body mind is gone? So what experience? Nothing one doesn't exist. 

[who chit]

Realization does imbue the fact that what we are does not die. It is no longer held to speculation, imagination, beliefs or ideas regarding such. Paradoxically what seeks enlightenment does so for the sake of wanting to live forever,but coming upon what it had desired in hopes of eternal life would actually only lead to it's dissolution/non-existence. The one that wants to be One,wants to be One but keep it's sense of self/individuality. In order for there to be One,there cannot be two,something has to go. Illusion is something unreal, appearing real. If what is unreal is unknowingly taken to be real,then for the one mistakenly taking it as real,it's dissolution is the dissolution of itself. Surrender is not unlike sacrificing oneself totally, for something greater than itself,only to realize that what seemed and took itself to be  something it was not, was a dream. In the dream,the sacrifice and loss seems very real. Upon waking up one sees "oh,it was just a dream". 

How can what was a dream and never truly existed, re-incarnate into another dream unless it was still dreaming and taking the dream to be true/real.
If one wakes up from the dream,there will not be a continuing of the dream as there was never anyone who was asleep.
Gautama "seen" many past lives under the Bodhi tree, but upon awakening revealed there is no soul that reincarnates. One can only speculate that the dream continues until it is realized there never was a sleeper or a dream. Or if not realized while still in the body,upon death of the body it is realized that the sleeper and the dream never existed and thus no re-incarnation.

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by who chit

[ivankiss]

@Jkris Death does not equal sleep.

Can be, but doesn't have to.

Sleep equals eternal nothingness. No Self. No awareness. Even no nothing. Death can lead you to nothingness. It can put you asleep.

But it can also be just an experience and change nothing, really. It can be a transition. A doorway. A portal; if you will.

It can also go totally unnoticed.

Edited January 31, 2019 by ivankiss

[who chit]

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

depends solely on one's level of evolution

This too is a possibility.

[Neorez]

@who chit

Thanks for your answer. Although I'm not at a point to understand what is said, if it can ever be understood. I'm not yet as comfortable with paradoxes as I should be. I had a feeling that what I experienced was only the beginning of the rabbit hole.

 @ivankiss

It sounds like you remain an individual and at the same time you don't? Am I looking in the right direction? I know it's hard to put into words that which can not be talked about. 

 

Any tips on how to proceed with my practise? I feel like I'm at a wall and need to break through. 

[ivankiss]

@Neorez Not exactly. You never really were an individual in the first place. You are formless and infinite. Have no location and no attributes. You are pure awareness. Indefinable.

But you can experience yourself as an individual. As a human. Or an animal. Or an alien, perhaps. You come prior to all forms and shapes. 

I'd suggest you the same as any other guide or teacher, probably;

Breathe deeply, practise mindfulness, do some yoga - or anything else to increase body awareness, focus on opening your mind's eye, contemplate a lot, think healthy thoughts, practise detachment, open up your heart, deepen your love towards yourself and others, follow your excitement and passion, dream big, find your purpose, face your fears and all challenges along the way. Surrender to what is. Do not resist the process.

It's all about expanding awareness. These are a few ways in which you can do that. There are infinite ways. Pick those which resonate; feel good and suit who you are.

Cheers!

[Neorez]

@ivankiss

Thanks,that makes more sense, at least conceptually for now. Hopefully in time they will experientially.

[who chit]

7 hours ago, who chit said:

Realization does imbue the fact that what we are does not die.

This is what Watts is getting at. What you truly are is not subject to time, birth and death.

 

7 hours ago, who chit said:

Paradoxically what seeks enlightenment does so for the sake of wanting to live forever,but coming upon what it had desired in hopes of eternal life would actually only lead to it's dissolution/non-existence. The one that wants to be One,wants to be One but keep it's sense of self/individuality. In order for there to be One,there cannot be two,something has to go.

The I or individual self that starts out seeking enlightenment,liberation etc.,typically does so in search of fulfillment,freedom from suffering and the desire for permanence. It hears of these things and seeks to attain them. What is not known is that if what is being sought happens,it will be the dissolution of that apparent I/self that is seeking it.   But as ivankiss pointed to "You never really were an individual in the first place".  

None of this should be taken on as a belief. Believing will not help and may even cause problems. Whatever is said in spirituality should never be taken on as simply a belief. Nothing is to be taken as ultimately true until it is realized to be so in your own experience.  Always use healthy skepticism and good discernment. 

Edited January 31, 2019 by who chit